I'm in the middle of the TB/WP project .... After assuring TDC, and both cams at their mark, after I removed the belt both gears moved a couple of teeth....
After doing some searching on here I found some conflicting info on whether to hand turn the cam gears clockwise or counter clockwise to get them lined up with the mark again.
So.... which way , or does it matter ?
Also, I assuming I can turn the cams with the flywheel lock still in position ??
I don't want to mess anything up.

Thanks for your help
Bill

 

Sounds like your process is wrong. You turn it to 45deg after turning 1 and 3/4 AFTER setting TDC. You mark the cam with paint to match cam cover alignment mark, then remove belt.

You can turn couple teeth back to paint mark to get belt on.

These are just some simple step but you should reference Wayne's timing belt write up.

 

I have a 16V .... Thought I didn't have to go to 45deg ??

 

Turn it via the big washer turn it the closest way to line them up. No harm, no foul.

 

I know some do the job at TDC. Particularly on 16V I think.
Regarding the cam gears, it normal they move after removing the belt.
Just move them back to were they should be with a 17mm wrench.
Quite sure you can go one way or another on the cam gears.

 

Could this movement have been avoided if one sliced the old belt in half in situ then place the new belt on also?

 

Im replacing all the cam seals and o-rings also.... so everything had to come off.

 

just turn them back with a wrench or socket when installing the new belt, no issues. with a 16V the marks only line up at 0 deg

 

FWIW there is conflicting info being provided,
the correct way to to fix this issue is to ,
use the large hex washer under the 17 MM bolt head to turn the cams.

You will need a 30 MM wrench.
if you use the 17MM bolt you risk changing the torque of the bolt and possibly loosening the bolt, this can damage the cam.

If the cam moves a few teeth you may need a helper to assist you to hold the cam while the belt is installed you can also use a zip tie to secure the belt to the driver side cam gear then hold the cam in position while the belt is placed onto the right hand cam gear.

As always dont force a cam to turn if it should begin to bind up
The crank being placed at 45 BTDC will prevent any contact of the valves to the pistons .

 

You don't. 45 degree is marked on 32 valve Harmonic only. In my estimation, it is better to work at a known TDC than estimate where 45 degree might be. Just use the large hex washer to turn and hold the cams....not the 17 mm bolt head.

 

Good point on NOT using the 17 mm bolt.
Never thought about that. Sorry.

 

There is no reason you need to move it 1 and 3/4 revolution past #1 at TDC. 45 degree is the same effect at 3/4 revoltion as it is at 1-3/4 revolution. And, this is really for the S4 and 85 4 valve engines.
the two valvers don't have an issue due to the valve relief depth. Also, at TDC of the #1 cylinder, there is no other valve that is fully depressed anyway.

the cams can be rotated either direction, they are not connected to anything else but he valves they push down

ditto on the way you control the cam pulleys. what I do , is just use a big vice grip and clamp on the hex nut/washer underneath the 17mm bolt. don't use the bolt, its a specific torque to hold position vs the cam. with a couple of vicegrips, you can maneuver the cam pulleys easy, as a wrench can slip off . its a pretty simple process to time out the belt and pulleys. get it all set up, and move the one cam pulley to the proper position and slip the belt over it ..............tighen the tensioner and you are done.

 

in the time it takes to do this, I could time out 10 engines. way way too much work, but I think I understand what you mean. timing the engine is pretty easy if you know the process.

 

What I wound up doing recently to get things lined up correctly without a helper for putting the belt back on was a breaker bar with the socket (you need a 32mm for the cam washer). If you dont have ALOT of leverage, the gear will turn on its own passed a certain point due to pushback from the valves on the cam lobe. Breaker bar made it dead easy to get them lined up. The DS cam moved immediately once the belt came off for me. At TDC for 16v, you should be just fine turning them as stated above.

Edit/Add: About clockwise vs counter clock, you should only do clockwise when possible but a small ammount of counter clockwise motion if you went too far right to get back on mark is fine according to factory for 16v's if I recall.

 

Thanks guys ...lots of good tips here ..... Hopefully I'll get it back together this weekend.