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It inspired me to go to PEP Boys. They have an Emergency European Fuse Kit by Littelfuse. Ceramic torpedo fuses in one each of 5, 8, 16 and 25 amps, plus a fuse puller tool. Only $3.99. It now resides in my glove compartment.
It doesn't appear you've had feedback on '89, so I checked your '89 US diagram against my '89 CE panel cards and found everything as your diagram indicates except Relay 19 Roman on your diagram is 'XIX' rather than 'IXX'.
I think it is correct as XIX, that is the correct roman form for 19 and this should be what is on your panel - check again
The sequencing can be confusing as can the differing relative label positions. All the Roman text is designed to be read as if the panel is rotated 90 degrees clockwise. Identifiers may relate to the relay above or below in this configuration - you must look at the Arrow direction (it's unfortunately not a very visible arrow). It's likely you were looking a a reversed 21 "XXI"
Oh... I should also add that originally (as in upon taking possession of my car), I noticed a number of VW relays were installed- and their related devices not working properly.
Taking a closer look- which I'm sure many have done before- if a relay's external wiring diagram has any meaning (which it should) it may explain why so many of the PO's (VW) relays were going bad so often...
(VW on top, Porsche on bottom... that extra line between 85 & 86 is a resistor, right?)
It is indeed a resistor (a 'snubber' resistor), some relays have reverse biassed diodes or even zener diodes across the coil. All these serve to reduce the inductive voltage spike when the relay turns off - this is communicated back to the driver - which is of little consequence if the driver is a switch, but possibly a bigger deal if the driver is an electronic circuit. In practice most drivers protect themselves in a similar manner so it usually not critical. I dont think it is a strong requirement anywhere on a 928.
In anycase it does not relate to damage to the relay or coil only to the driver.
I suspect the relays were just old - salvaged from something else. Probably in wearout finally...
The VW relays will have been of quite good quality originally. I have stock relays in my GTS that are actually VW/Audi branded (I believe made by Bosch) - they are very fine relays - I wouldn't worry too much..
My car does say XIX; but when I wrote the email my fingers got ahead of my brain.
The '89 sheet shows IXX for '19':
which should be XIX.
If you turn the image above upside down, the crumbs will fall out from between your laptop keys, IXX, 19 will be 61, XXI and XXI, 21 will be 15, IXX (sort of).
My car does say XIX; but when I wrote the email my fingers got ahead of my brain.
The '89 sheet shows IXX for '19':
Ahh - OK so yes you are correct - all the later diagrams had this error at one time - my mistake.
I actually fixed them all a while ago so my current versions now look OK, (but the archived ones don't) I am intending to make some other pending changes & I don't think I have uploaded any of these that are fixed yet.
I do need to get back to this - this thread's resurfacing makes that much clear. I probably haven't touched these at all for >6 months and haven't touched them much in the last year or so. Need to crank out those final updates.
Alan,
Referencing post 117, your (very nice!) relay chart showing what positions are occupied by MY.
Please consider one change, assuming you haven't already captured it in a later version somewhere.
MY 1984, Relay position XI.
Chart shows "not used in this year"
False.
Indeed used in 1984 -- for antilock brakes.
This was optional for USA market, but I think it was standard equipment for ROW.
Verifications --- a) Workshop manual Current Flow Diagram #97-191 for 84 ROW b) Workshop manual Current Flow Diagram #97-193 for 84 USA/Japan c) CE panel, my Euro 84 car.
Hi Alan, thank you so much for the PDF diagrams to the CE panel. It makes life so much easier to print my years' panel then take it to the car or to the workbench.
Since taking possession of the '78 manual, I have noticed that the CE panel is different :
1. No red-wires on top of the panels to take off in order to tilt it
2. No red locking on the bottom
3. My bottom row of plugs are not all filled, is this normal in early cars?
Lastly, as far as I can find on the web, manual '78 only has a relay bridge on XV (start), does it mean no need to check that connection for starter problem, since it is not a relay?
Hi Alan, thank you so much for the PDF diagrams to the CE panel. It makes life so much easier to print my years' panel then take it to the car or to the workbench.
Since taking possession of the '78 manual, I have noticed that the CE panel is different :
1. No red-wires on top of the panels to take off in order to tilt it
2. No red locking on the bottom
3. My bottom row of plugs are not all filled, is this normal in early cars?
Lastly, as far as I can find on the web, manual '78 only has a relay bridge on XV (start), does it mean no need to check that connection for starter problem, since it is not a relay?
Thank you-Hoi
1. No red-wires on top of the panels to take off in order to tilt it - they are in the middle on early cars (large quick disconnects)
2. No red locking on the bottom - early pandels had no plug retention mechanism
3. My bottom row of plugs are not all filled, is this normal in early cars? - Yes it is also normal on late cars - including your '89
You have no start relay - but it may still be helpful to test there - the starter solenoid activation runs directly from the ignition switch - to this bridge then on to the solenoid (so easy to monitor it here).
You should restore your panel to the proper (torpedo) fuses, that looks very messy (and not very secure). You should be able to get the replacement fuse connector terminals - try Roger (ROG100).
Yes it is also normal on late cars - including your '89
Alan
Actually I take that back - '89 is one of the few years that actually uses all plugs (though some are almost empty). Most years have at least 1 unused plug slot. On late panels these are most commonly Plugs R & L.
05-11-2015, 11:01 PM
