Notices
928 Forum 1978-1995
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: 928 Specialists

Nuts & Bolts

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-22-2014 | 05:47 PM
  #16  
NoVector's Avatar
NoVector
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,905
Likes: 315
From: K-town, Germany
Default

Personally, I say go buy a kit and have some fun with it.

http://www.gaterosplating.co.uk/Zinc-Plating-kit.php
Attached Images    
Old 01-22-2014 | 08:25 PM
  #17  
Hilton's Avatar
Hilton
Nordschleife Master
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,285
Likes: 56
From: ɹəpun uʍop 'ʎəupʎs
Default

Originally Posted by NoVector
Personally, I say go buy a kit and have some fun with it.
+1
Attached Images   
Old 01-22-2014 | 08:46 PM
  #18  
The Fixer's Avatar
The Fixer
Drifting
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,453
Likes: 6
From: Pennsyltucky
Default

Originally Posted by NoVector
Personally, I say go buy a kit and have some fun with it.

http://www.gaterosplating.co.uk/Zinc-Plating-kit.php
+2, looks fabulous NoVector!
Old 01-23-2014 | 05:53 PM
  #19  
Maybach_Man's Avatar
Maybach_Man
Pro
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
From: Near London U.K.
Default

Originally Posted by The Fixer
I hate stainless because the nuts and bolts gaul.

It depends on the application of course.

And there are different grades of stainless steel,

but i consider stn. stl. fasteners a lower grade fastener for sure.
2 main types A2 and A4 latter being the better quality. Actually stainless is high tensile, especially cap head 12.9 i think.....so far superior to steel plated fasteners!! a bit of copperslip and no gauling and no rust.
Old 01-23-2014 | 10:40 PM
  #20  
jon928se's Avatar
jon928se
Addict
Rennlist Member

 
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,608
Likes: 11
From: Sydney AUS
Default

Originally Posted by Maybach_Man
2 main types A2 and A4 latter being the better quality. Actually stainless is high tensile, especially cap head 12.9 i think.....so far superior to steel plated fasteners!! a bit of copperslip and no gauling and no rust.

Not quite

Grade 12.9 is the highest High Tensile grade commonly available off the shelf and is not Stainless Steel.

Stainless Steel Property Class 80 has an Ultimate Tensile Strength (UTS) marginally less than Grade 8.8 (same as imperial SAE Grade 5) A4/80-800N/mm2, G8.8 827N/mm2. However it's yield strength which is more important for most fastenings is lower - A4/80 = 600N/mm2, G8.8= 640N/mm2. It is generally only available as A4 or 316 Grade.

Stainless Property Class 70 is available in 304 grade (A2) and 316 grade (A4)
It has a yield stress of 450N/mm2. So can be safely substituted for Grade 4.6 bolts - Yield stress = 240 N/mm2.

The 928 does have a lot of bolts specified as G8.8 where strength is not an issue. From a bit of digging I did a while back I recall coming to the conclusion that Porsche really only used Grade 4.6 bolts for interior fixings. If it was outside, underneath or in the engine bay they used G8.8 (or better) even if it wasn't required.
Old 01-24-2014 | 03:13 PM
  #21  
karl ruiter's Avatar
karl ruiter
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,372
Likes: 196
From: Honolulu and sometimes L.A.
Default

There are probably 50 or 100 fasteners on the car where strength really matters. The other 1000 or so really don't matter much. However I've had bad luck with the corrosion resistance of hardware store fasteners. They will start to rust here in Hawaii in 6 months or a year, while the stock fasteners often look great after 20. I've done my own zinc/chromate thing too, and that's ok, but my results are pretty inconsistent as to how long it lasts.
On my boats, I've started doing anything I can from titanium because stainless parts can corrode from the inside and suddenly fail after a year or so of use in a salty environment, while titanium never corrodes. And, it's not really THAT expensive. Consider you are doing a water pump job. If you are concerned about cost you probably go Lasco, for $500 or so. Probably closer to $1k if you are going to Porkension it also. For an extra $60 or $70 you can do all the water pump fasteners in titanium. If you have ever had one of these fasteners stick or break you can see how this could easily be worth it.
Old 01-24-2014 | 06:37 PM
  #22  
17prospective buyer's Avatar
17prospective buyer
Three Wheelin'
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,778
Likes: 0
From: Singhampton, Ontario/London, Ontario
Default

A sharp impact is all that is needed for stuff like that. At least for me. Most stubborn fasteners i've had feel impossible to get out with constant torque applied, but come out like butter with sharp sudden impacts. If you don't have an impact you can sort of simulate the same effect with a ratchet, provided you can swing the damn thing. Melting the Loctite with heat is a good measure too for bolts that have it.
Old 01-25-2014 | 07:46 PM
  #23  
gcthree's Avatar
gcthree
Burning Brakes
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 785
Likes: 118
From: Williamsburg, Virginia by way of Garden City, New York
Default

Which kit did you purchase? and can I assume that they results you've shown were done with one of these kits??

Great results!

Thanks,
Bob

Originally Posted by NoVector
Personally, I say go buy a kit and have some fun with it.

http://www.gaterosplating.co.uk/Zinc-Plating-kit.php
Old 01-26-2014 | 03:21 AM
  #24  
NoVector's Avatar
NoVector
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,905
Likes: 315
From: K-town, Germany
Default

Hi Bob - I bought their "ultimate" kit because I didn't have a 220 water heater, air pump, etc. And I use a 22 amp battery charger for power.

Their video explains the process:

I don't know long-term results as I just started doing this a little over a year ago. But, it's kind of fun... everytime I do a project I just cean/rezinc stuff. Truth be told, I'm not smart enough to put 5 lbs of stuff in a bucket, take it to a metal shop and then remember where everything goes--doing little jobs at a time makes it easy. I'm looking forward to my top end refresh this spring so I can do the fuel rails, FPRs, bolts, etc. .
Old 01-26-2014 | 08:16 AM
  #25  
Maybach_Man's Avatar
Maybach_Man
Pro
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
From: Near London U.K.
Default

Originally Posted by The Fixer
I hate stainless because the nuts and bolts gaul.

It depends on the application of course.

And there are different grades of stainless steel,

but i consider stn. stl. fasteners a lower grade fastener for sure.
Originally Posted by jon928se
Not quite

Grade 12.9 is the highest High Tensile grade commonly available off the shelf and is not Stainless Steel.

Stainless Steel Property Class 80 has an Ultimate Tensile Strength (UTS) marginally less than Grade 8.8 (same as imperial SAE Grade 5) A4/80-800N/mm2, G8.8 827N/mm2. However it's yield strength which is more important for most fastenings is lower - A4/80 = 600N/mm2, G8.8= 640N/mm2. It is generally only available as A4 or 316 Grade.

Stainless Property Class 70 is available in 304 grade (A2) and 316 grade (A4)
It has a yield stress of 450N/mm2. So can be safely substituted for Grade 4.6 bolts - Yield stress = 240 N/mm2.

The 928 does have a lot of bolts specified as G8.8 where strength is not an issue. From a bit of digging I did a while back I recall coming to the conclusion that Porsche really only used Grade 4.6 bolts for interior fixings. If it was outside, underneath or in the engine bay they used G8.8 (or better) even if it wasn't required.
Cool Jon Thanks
Old 01-26-2014 | 09:01 AM
  #26  
depami's Avatar
depami
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 290
From: Cleveland, MN
Default

Originally Posted by NoVector
Personally, I say go buy a kit and have some fun with it.

http://www.gaterosplating.co.uk/Zinc-Plating-kit.php

Agree. I plan to try.

Hilton, I never would have thought of plating that part. Looks like you plated the "sensing wire" too, does it still work properly?


Originally Posted by Hilton
+1Name:  Plated Fuel Sender.JPG
Views: 316
Size:  131.7 KB
Old 01-26-2014 | 01:24 PM
  #27  
17prospective buyer's Avatar
17prospective buyer
Three Wheelin'
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,778
Likes: 0
From: Singhampton, Ontario/London, Ontario
Default

No it doesn't work he just plated it for art.
Old 01-26-2014 | 06:25 PM
  #28  
Hilton's Avatar
Hilton
Nordschleife Master
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,285
Likes: 56
From: ɹəpun uʍop 'ʎəupʎs
Default

Originally Posted by depami
Agree. I plan to try.

Hilton, I never would have thought of plating that part. Looks like you plated the "sensing wire" too, does it still work properly?
Originally Posted by 17prospective buyer
No it doesn't work he just plated it for art.
I wasn't risking anything - as you can see from the first pic, it was rusted up and the bottom section was caked in a tar-like substance, and was thoroughly failing to work. I opened it up to investigate after finding lots of scary crap in the bottom of the fuel tank (varnish, mud, sand-like stuff, rust flakes)

Bead blasted it after a solvent bath, washed it thoroughly and plated it (which also plates the wires), then passivated with the chromate dip.

Then discovered once I installed it that the passivation stuff doesn't conduct very well, so my tank gauge was jumping from zero to full with every shake of the car. I fixed that by removing the sender again, and using some fine-grade wet and dry paper on the wires to remove the coating.

Has been just fine since!

Last edited by Hilton; 01-26-2014 at 06:57 PM.
Old 01-26-2014 | 08:59 PM
  #29  
The Fixer's Avatar
The Fixer
Drifting
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,453
Likes: 6
From: Pennsyltucky
Default

Originally Posted by Maybach_Man
2 main types A2 and A4 latter being the better quality. Actually stainless is high tensile, especially cap head 12.9 i think.....so far superior to steel plated fasteners!! a bit of copperslip and no gauling and no rust.
Expensive stainless bolt and nuts simply fail, especially if exposed to heat from my experience. Do not use them for exhaust work.

I recently was trying to remove these highest quality fasteners on a Buddy's car exhaust (the expensive nuts failed in a matter of weeks)

I've never cursed so much under a car!
Old 01-27-2014 | 03:00 AM
  #30  
jpitman2's Avatar
jpitman2
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,283
Likes: 49
From: Australia
Default

Its getting harder and harder for makers of anything plated to get approvals for the process - not only the coating has do a certain job, but the whole process has to be considered eco-friendly these days. My last employer has a plant in China, and they have to keep fighting off people offering them cheaper and cheaper sub contract work. One was plating, and I was told that the cheapest platers would dig a hole, line it with plastic , fill it with plating solution , hang a metal basket of material in the solution, connect a wire to the basket, and throw it over the nearest overhead power line.....
jp 83 Euro S AT 55k



Quick Reply: Nuts & Bolts



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 06:48 AM.