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Supercharged '91 GT Refresh

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Old 01-05-2014, 01:02 AM
  #76  
Lizard928
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AO,
Check your TT bearings. That wear looks like rubbing which would mean the shaft flexing.
Old 01-05-2014, 01:26 AM
  #77  
FredR
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Andrew,

Could 500ft-lbs + and "heavy boots2 have something to do with that wear pattern on the splines?

Do you intend to take a peek inside the gearbox while you are at it?- not that you are not taking on enough as it is.

As I think about it this could be a good opportunity to better analyse/understand the "ravages" of advanced wear patterns to "bolt on" boosted928's doing something not taken into account in the original design.

Your comment on the piston crown cleanliness and no vapour recycle is an interesting albeit not too surprising observation.

Regards

Fred
Old 01-05-2014, 03:21 AM
  #78  
andy-gts
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AO,
Check your TT bearings. That wear looks like rubbing which would mean the shaft flexing.
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shaft flexing from 500 rwhP????
Old 01-05-2014, 08:36 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by ptuomov
I think about it in a slightly different way. Not saying that your description is incorrect or anything, just that I think of it differently. My way of thinking about is the following:

The orifice between the pressure gauges flows a certain amount of air per unit of time, given the pressure on both sides of the orifice. If the pressure drop over the orifice is from 100 (absolute) psi to 95 psi, the flow thru a 1mm diameter orifice is about 0.70 SCFM. If the pressure drop is from 100 psi to 90 psi, it's about 0.96 SCFM. If the pressure drop is from 100 psi to 85 psi, it's about 1.15 SCFM. It's probably not too far from a square root relation in the pressure differential for given downstream pressure. Now, from the pressure drop you can tell whether more or less air is leaking thru the piston rings. In fact, you can compute it if you know things like the restrictor orifice diameter.

As a side note, I think that for comparable measurements one should really set the downstream pressure measurement to be a constant constant at some number. A drop from 200 psi upstream to 180 psi downstream means 1.92 SCFM flow. A drop from 100 psi upstream to 90 psi downstream means 0.96 SCFM flow. It's the same pressure ratio drop but double the pressure drop. It's not square root in the pressure drop because air compresses. But one should also take into account that the same cylinder and rings will "leak" a lot more when the downstream pressure is 180 psi than when it is 90 psi. So I think one should always test leakdown with the same downstream pressure (that the cylinder sees) or at least report the downstream test pressure along the pressure drop ratio if one has a fetish for precision. That said, if the flow thru the rings is about proportional to the pressure drop, it's not necessarily a bad approximation to just report the pressure drop ratio.

Now, what does the leakdown number tell us? I think that when the engine is not running, the ring end gap is the main cause of the leak down number. The leakdown in absolute is not very useful, it just tells you what the piston ring end gap is. But you already know that if you set it!

It is, however, very useful if one measures the leakdown with new rings and then measures it regularly as the engine has been run for more hours. The change in the leakdown number will indicate how much the cylinder and the rings have worn. As the bore wears or the rings wear, the effective diameter grows. Suppose the new engine bore diameter is 100mm, the piston to bore clearance is 0.04mm, and top ring end gap is 0.3mm. The ring gap area is about 0.012 mm^2. Suppose that this will give a "leak down" in a leakdown tester from 100 psi absolute to 90 psi absolute, and this will give some SCFM number. After engine has been used, suppose that the SCFM from the leak-down test has increased by 1/3, then the the ring gap has also increased such that the gap area has increased by about 1/3 (ball park, government work, etc.). If one knows the proportion of wear coming from bore vs. the rings, one can even compute an approximation of the new piston to bore clearance from the leakdown number.
You are of course in a strict definition, correct. I try to simplify things when possible to get a generalized understanding of it. It really is a comparative measurement, but for the purposes of a running engine works rather remarkably well. The science of fluid dynamics makes this very complicated. But whichever way you look at it, the test gives an indication of the ability of the engine to run.

Thank you for expanding on the theory.

Originally Posted by AO
Back on topic.... here are a few pics of one of the pistons. You can see the slight carbon build up in the dish. Not a big deal. The rest looks fine to my eyes, but I do wear glasses nowadays.
Originally Posted by Imo000
Thats a little more carbon then normal. The right side of the picture has a pretty good buildup. Use Permatex Gasket remover for the carbon. Spray it on and leave it for 5min.


Originally Posted by Imo000
Nothing works faster and easier on carbon than Permatex Gasket Remover. 5 min and the carbon turns into liquid. I came across this by accident when working on another Porsche engine and have used it on other engines since.
This is true. If you saw my rebuild thread on the GT engine that seized because of carbon, you would see carbon build up. The permatex gasket remover was AMAZING.

Originally Posted by AO
But then I saw what may be the beginning of an intermediate shaft failure. Need to get Greg to send me one of his new fangled versions. I think I dodged a bullet here. What you see here is metal starting to "gather" at the splines. Yikes!



Originally Posted by andy-gts
AO,
Check your TT bearings. That wear looks like rubbing which would mean the shaft flexing.
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Colin J


shaft flexing from 500 rwhP????
Ya. That is not shaft failure. That is material being pushed up into the splines from rubbing from something. Look at the mating parts and damage to them. Looks like the guide tube might have been loose or pushed over to one side, maybe.
Old 01-05-2014, 08:53 AM
  #80  
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I did have a TT bearing failure a year and a half ago. I replaced the TT, so maybe it as from that.

Fred, sorry to disappoint, but I do not have any plans to take out or open the trans.
Old 01-05-2014, 10:19 AM
  #81  
FBIII
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The last piston seems to have been detonating more than the others. If the pistons are cleaned and left with a pock marked surface, will that create am environment for further detonation? Kind of a piston version of a hot spot in the combustion chamber.
Old 01-05-2014, 10:23 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by FBIII
The last piston seems to have been detonating more than the others. If the pistons are cleaned and left with a pock marked surface, will that create am environment for further detonation? Kind of a piston version of a hot spot in the combustion chamber.
I think it's just the angle of the camera. None of them looked like they had been experiencing much detonation - at least nothing where there were visible signs. With the intercooler failing, there was some mild pinging.

But as to your question, the short answer is yes. Having a rough surface can cause hot spots which then leads to more detonation which lead to further damage to the piston and maybe the head.

Today I cleaned up the heads and started cleaning up all the nuts and bolts.

The heads cleaned up very nicely. Next is to make a spring compressor so I can take the springs out and begin checking valve guides.

Pics from today...









Old 01-06-2014, 01:41 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by AO
The heads cleaned up very nicely. Next is to make a spring compressor so I can take the springs out and begin checking valve guides.
Id have to dig it up, but i think i made one out of PVC pipe, then cut a slot in it that gave me access to the retaining clips ?
Old 01-06-2014, 07:01 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Tony
Id have to dig it up, but i think i made one out of PVC pipe, then cut a slot in it that gave me access to the retaining clips ?
Thanks Tony. Already looked it up. Will post my solution. Today is a snow day for the kids. So I might be able to get a few more things done if I have the pieces laying around.
Old 01-06-2014, 07:16 AM
  #85  
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Andrew,

I bought this Valve spring compressor a long time ago. Best money I ever spent. Makes easy work of valve removal.
Old 01-06-2014, 05:23 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by 69gaugeman
I would replace the mains as it had not been done before. He just did the rods 6 years ago so I would leave them alone, as they can be done (relatively) easy while in the car.
I assume it is not as simple as just putting in new mains but that it would mean measuring and matching all bearings and crank? Maybe machining involved if fitting oversize bearings, stuff like that?
Old 01-06-2014, 06:00 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by Leon Speed
I assume it is not as simple as just putting in new mains but that it would mean measuring and matching all bearings and crank? Maybe machining involved if fitting oversize bearings, stuff like that?
When I did the tear down of the GT I found little wear on the mains. If there is no visible wear, then standard bearings will be just fine. So yes just a matter of replacing them.

The cost of the bearings is low compared the the amount of work to take the cradle off and remove the crank. The rod bearings can be done with the engine in the car. I wouldn't try the main bearings. Now that he has the engine out it is maybe an hour or two of extra work and he knows he will be good for the life of the engine (main bearings at least).
Old 01-07-2014, 02:59 PM
  #88  
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Thanks guys for all your commentary and input. I will be looking at the mains. I've never done that before, so I will be asking for guidance when I get there.

Yesterday I made my valve spring compressor tool and took the keepers out of one of the heads. Today I should finish the other head.

I made mine by following this thread from 2006 (wow 8 years ago) where Konig928 and Tony talked about their home made too. Mine cost me a whopping $3.28 for a 4' length of 1" PVC and a PVC T piece. I had some scrap 2x4s and copper pipe laying around. The black pipe is from a pipe clamp I made many years ago. With about an hour of monkeying around to get the fit right... I had a pretty descent valve spring compressor.



Old 01-07-2014, 03:44 PM
  #89  
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Cool! Thanks for posting those pics.
Old 01-07-2014, 04:45 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by AO

Yesterday I made my valve spring compressor tool and took the keepers out of one of the heads. Today I should finish the other head.
....

ya gotta chuckle a bit when it actually works!! Well done!


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