My oil control/ should i get a dry sump vent?
09-06-2013, 12:44 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
I think that would have to be a turbocharged California spec 928 running the oil vapor line to the smog pump.
It then doubles as a vacuum pump and burns the oil in the cat while getting decent gas mileage.
Belt driven superchargers are not nearly as efficient as exhaust gas drive turbos as they put load on the engine instead of using wasted exhaust gasses.
I'm sorry if I upset any supercharger fans, they are just not efficient enough to improve fuel economy and HP at the same time.
Hopefully some one in the future can developer a kit that is as inexpensive to buy as the supercharger kits.
Since I live close to Los Angeles I have to retain all of my smog equipment so there are very few power adders I can use aside from euro intakes, camshafts, and 85-86 manifolds.
So if some one can make a kit that runs clean enough to have smog provisions that would be amazing for every one.
If a 928 is tuned nicely and maintained well it should pass emissions (exhaust gasses alone not including visual)even with out a cat.
Most of them need a good tune up and replacement of the cats to run well and cleanly again.
The reason people take them off is because they are clogged but they should be replaced with OEM spec equipment and not a straight pipe or X pipe.
Who wants a car that smells like a lawn mower? Keep it classy people.
It then doubles as a vacuum pump and burns the oil in the cat while getting decent gas mileage.
Belt driven superchargers are not nearly as efficient as exhaust gas drive turbos as they put load on the engine instead of using wasted exhaust gasses.
I'm sorry if I upset any supercharger fans, they are just not efficient enough to improve fuel economy and HP at the same time.
Hopefully some one in the future can developer a kit that is as inexpensive to buy as the supercharger kits.
Since I live close to Los Angeles I have to retain all of my smog equipment so there are very few power adders I can use aside from euro intakes, camshafts, and 85-86 manifolds.
So if some one can make a kit that runs clean enough to have smog provisions that would be amazing for every one.
If a 928 is tuned nicely and maintained well it should pass emissions (exhaust gasses alone not including visual)even with out a cat.
Most of them need a good tune up and replacement of the cats to run well and cleanly again.
The reason people take them off is because they are clogged but they should be replaced with OEM spec equipment and not a straight pipe or X pipe.
Who wants a car that smells like a lawn mower? Keep it classy people.
09-06-2013, 01:06 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Greg, I'm glad that you feel good about what you are doing.
My car was an absolute mess when I bought it. I have turned it into something I like tremendously. I don't think I could care much less what others think of it. I have no plans on ever selling it. And so, with knowing that, I felt liberated to put a supercharger on it because I wanted to. I certainly didn't destroy a piece of art in the process. I took a piece of junk and I'm slowly turning into something really fun.
As far as carbon footprints go, I realize that this isn't the cleanest approach however I live, what I consider a very productive and moral life. However, I'm not perfect and sometimes I knowingly do things that I know aren't proper just because they are fun.
I appreciate your zeal for the badge, but I think any talk about saving the planet is somewhat hypocritical from someone that builds race cars.
My car was an absolute mess when I bought it. I have turned it into something I like tremendously. I don't think I could care much less what others think of it. I have no plans on ever selling it. And so, with knowing that, I felt liberated to put a supercharger on it because I wanted to. I certainly didn't destroy a piece of art in the process. I took a piece of junk and I'm slowly turning into something really fun.
As far as carbon footprints go, I realize that this isn't the cleanest approach however I live, what I consider a very productive and moral life. However, I'm not perfect and sometimes I knowingly do things that I know aren't proper just because they are fun.
I appreciate your zeal for the badge, but I think any talk about saving the planet is somewhat hypocritical from someone that builds race cars.
09-06-2013, 02:16 PM
#18
Former Vendor
Greg, I'm glad that you feel good about what you are doing.
My car was an absolute mess when I bought it. I have turned it into something I like tremendously. I don't think I could care much less what others think of it. I have no plans on ever selling it. And so, with knowing that, I felt liberated to put a supercharger on it because I wanted to. I certainly didn't destroy a piece of art in the process. I took a piece of junk and I'm slowly turning into something really fun.
As far as carbon footprints go, I realize that this isn't the cleanest approach however I live, what I consider a very productive and moral life. However, I'm not perfect and sometimes I knowingly do things that I know aren't proper just because they are fun.
I appreciate your zeal for the badge, but I think any talk about saving the planet is somewhat hypocritical from someone that builds race cars.
My car was an absolute mess when I bought it. I have turned it into something I like tremendously. I don't think I could care much less what others think of it. I have no plans on ever selling it. And so, with knowing that, I felt liberated to put a supercharger on it because I wanted to. I certainly didn't destroy a piece of art in the process. I took a piece of junk and I'm slowly turning into something really fun.
As far as carbon footprints go, I realize that this isn't the cleanest approach however I live, what I consider a very productive and moral life. However, I'm not perfect and sometimes I knowingly do things that I know aren't proper just because they are fun.
I appreciate your zeal for the badge, but I think any talk about saving the planet is somewhat hypocritical from someone that builds race cars.
I've seen and worked on these supercharged messes. I know what they do. I know how they are plumbed. I know what it takes to "keep" the engines "alive"......and it's not 14.7 to 1, with a high efficient cat in the exhaust.
When the feds decide to crack down on this stuff again (and they will.....the "government" is broke......and every agency in the government is trying to "prove" that they are a necessary piece of the puzzle) they will simply show up at all the people that sell supercharger kits and gather up all the addresses of anyone that bought one. I've seen them do this before....and they will do it again. The last time they did this, they simply bought up all the magazines (so much easier, now, with the Internet) they could find and visited everyone that sold catalytic convertor replacement pipes. Put those people , in jail, and then went after the customer base.
Just don't whine then and "pretend" like you didn't know, when the **** storm comes down.
Remember....$10,000 per day, for every day that they can prove your car was de-federalized.
Lots and lots of people "lost" their houses and everything they owned, last time.
And BTW, just for clarity.....Used to build race cars.....used to work for many people that owned race cars.
Past tense.
09-06-2013, 04:33 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Greg,
From the bottom of my heart, I am grateful to you for all that you do for our community. I have the utmost respect for your work and willingness to help others.
I understand how you feel the modifications that I have made. I take full responsibility for them.
I also understand that you may not respect me for the choices I have made. I hope that is not the case, but accept it if it is.
I am sure that you know that I will not likely be talked out of using the supercharger. I enjoy it very much.
At this point, I am trying to improve on it. Leave less of a mess behind. If you would care to help me with an idea for that, I would greatly appreciate it.
If not, I would ask that you allow me to seek help here, unhindered.
Thank you very much.
PS, bought my kit used from a private party. Convoluted paper trail.
From the bottom of my heart, I am grateful to you for all that you do for our community. I have the utmost respect for your work and willingness to help others.
I understand how you feel the modifications that I have made. I take full responsibility for them.
I also understand that you may not respect me for the choices I have made. I hope that is not the case, but accept it if it is.
I am sure that you know that I will not likely be talked out of using the supercharger. I enjoy it very much.
At this point, I am trying to improve on it. Leave less of a mess behind. If you would care to help me with an idea for that, I would greatly appreciate it.
If not, I would ask that you allow me to seek help here, unhindered.
Thank you very much.
PS, bought my kit used from a private party. Convoluted paper trail.
09-06-2013, 04:51 PM
#20
Addict
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I look at things differently.
I believe that a Prius is an environmental disaster.....I believe that the entire "battery" thing is going to turn out to be a huge problem......from the creation of the materials to the end disposal. When one of these cars is "crashed" and the batteries are leaking all over the highway....what kind of an environmental disaster is that? And how do these cars get their batteries charged? Through the electric grid. Is there a less efficient way to do this? Burn fossil fuel, to make electricity, to then charge the batteries on a Prius? Seriously? Every electrical engineer on the planet knows the losses involved in doing this. It's one hell of a lot more efficient to burn the fuel directly!
Very well said Greg. I agree with you 100% on this.
On the topic of supercharged 928's, I don't believe that a properly engineered system cannot be built to run efficiently and as clean as a N/A motor. Whether anyone has done it yet, I can't say.
Now if someone comes up with a supercharger system that really works....clean usable horsepower......closed crankcase, runs through catalytic convertors, gets great mileage, and has really low emissions.....
I'm all in!
There is such a system being built. It's not yet ready as bits of it are still being tested. It will be done in time for the Porsche parade 2014 in June 2014 in Monterey. Maybe you'll have a chance to come up and see it in the flesh with all the other Porsche rolling artwork on the peninsula in 2014..
I believe that a Prius is an environmental disaster.....I believe that the entire "battery" thing is going to turn out to be a huge problem......from the creation of the materials to the end disposal. When one of these cars is "crashed" and the batteries are leaking all over the highway....what kind of an environmental disaster is that? And how do these cars get their batteries charged? Through the electric grid. Is there a less efficient way to do this? Burn fossil fuel, to make electricity, to then charge the batteries on a Prius? Seriously? Every electrical engineer on the planet knows the losses involved in doing this. It's one hell of a lot more efficient to burn the fuel directly!
Very well said Greg. I agree with you 100% on this.
On the topic of supercharged 928's, I don't believe that a properly engineered system cannot be built to run efficiently and as clean as a N/A motor. Whether anyone has done it yet, I can't say.
Now if someone comes up with a supercharger system that really works....clean usable horsepower......closed crankcase, runs through catalytic convertors, gets great mileage, and has really low emissions.....
I'm all in!
There is such a system being built. It's not yet ready as bits of it are still being tested. It will be done in time for the Porsche parade 2014 in June 2014 in Monterey. Maybe you'll have a chance to come up and see it in the flesh with all the other Porsche rolling artwork on the peninsula in 2014..
09-06-2013, 10:38 PM
#21
Former Vendor
09-06-2013, 10:46 PM
#22
Former Vendor
Greg,
From the bottom of my heart, I am grateful to you for all that you do for our community. I have the utmost respect for your work and willingness to help others.
I understand how you feel the modifications that I have made. I take full responsibility for them.
I also understand that you may not respect me for the choices I have made. I hope that is not the case, but accept it if it is.
I am sure that you know that I will not likely be talked out of using the supercharger. I enjoy it very much.
At this point, I am trying to improve on it. Leave less of a mess behind. If you would care to help me with an idea for that, I would greatly appreciate it.
If not, I would ask that you allow me to seek help here, unhindered.
Thank you very much.
PS, bought my kit used from a private party. Convoluted paper trail.
From the bottom of my heart, I am grateful to you for all that you do for our community. I have the utmost respect for your work and willingness to help others.
I understand how you feel the modifications that I have made. I take full responsibility for them.
I also understand that you may not respect me for the choices I have made. I hope that is not the case, but accept it if it is.
I am sure that you know that I will not likely be talked out of using the supercharger. I enjoy it very much.
At this point, I am trying to improve on it. Leave less of a mess behind. If you would care to help me with an idea for that, I would greatly appreciate it.
If not, I would ask that you allow me to seek help here, unhindered.
Thank you very much.
PS, bought my kit used from a private party. Convoluted paper trail.
I'm just trying to make a point and "push" people into making pieces that are both "legal" and improve horsepower.....the two are not mutually exclusive.
"Open crankcases" are completely absurd. I think you see this and are trying to come up with a solution that works better than what you have.
If you are going to "rethink" how yours is done and come up with another method.....think of ways to "vent" that oil back into the engine and get it back into a "closed crankcase" mode.
Consider anything I make at your disposal towards this quest.
09-06-2013, 11:32 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Greg,
You've got a big heart. I will do my best to find a way to close the system. Obviously, I am no engineer, but I can make an honest effort.
You've got a big heart. I will do my best to find a way to close the system. Obviously, I am no engineer, but I can make an honest effort.
09-07-2013, 12:41 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
So, could I do something as simple as:
1. Running the existing ventilation line to a catch can.
2. Tapping a line into the supercharger intake.
3. Running the output line of the catch can to the SC intake?
I have absolutely no problem with emptying a catch can regularly.
1. Running the existing ventilation line to a catch can.
2. Tapping a line into the supercharger intake.
3. Running the output line of the catch can to the SC intake?
I have absolutely no problem with emptying a catch can regularly.
09-07-2013, 10:10 PM
#25
That was one of the things I considered when I bought my 79. -that it was pre-computer and emissions.
(also like burning regular gas and not having interference valves). With the 928 motorsports oil control kit installed I am not venting crankcase pressure to atmosphere. It still goes to the filter housing like all contemporaneous pre-81 cars. The louver plate below the separator merely deflects the majority of splash droplets and the rest drop at the T to the cam chamber. Gaseous fumes continue on back to the filter housing. It works and that is all I want. -Now to put it on my new rotary lift and look around the underbelly. Getting too old to crawl anymore.
(also like burning regular gas and not having interference valves). With the 928 motorsports oil control kit installed I am not venting crankcase pressure to atmosphere. It still goes to the filter housing like all contemporaneous pre-81 cars. The louver plate below the separator merely deflects the majority of splash droplets and the rest drop at the T to the cam chamber. Gaseous fumes continue on back to the filter housing. It works and that is all I want. -Now to put it on my new rotary lift and look around the underbelly. Getting too old to crawl anymore.
09-07-2013, 10:44 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks, bob. I have the baffle installed, but with the supercharger installed, you need more than the baffle. My understanding is crankcase pressures go up, so you need a a more comprehensive solution.
The directions for the SC have the vent line feeding back into the intake tube of the SC, but when I received the parts, they were not set up for that.
I called, and was told that they no longer recommend it, and now recommend venting to atmosphere.
I would think about trying to run the vent hose straight to the intake tube, but there is more oil than I would care to have running through the SC. That is why I was thinking about a catch can in the middle of it.
The directions for the SC have the vent line feeding back into the intake tube of the SC, but when I received the parts, they were not set up for that.
I called, and was told that they no longer recommend it, and now recommend venting to atmosphere.
I would think about trying to run the vent hose straight to the intake tube, but there is more oil than I would care to have running through the SC. That is why I was thinking about a catch can in the middle of it.
09-08-2013, 01:08 PM
#27
I can't see why you couldn't vent the catch can to the filter housing. -also, why not use a clear polycarbonate bottle for the catch can so you can visually see the contents? If I was still having blow through problems on mine (other than an engine rebuild
I would place a catch can on the line that goes to the filter housing.
I would place a catch can on the line that goes to the filter housing.
09-08-2013, 03:25 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks again, bob. If you are referring to the air filter housing, I don't have one. The car is supercharged.
Edit: When I get a chance, I will post a pic of my engine bay.
Edit: When I get a chance, I will post a pic of my engine bay.
Last edited by robot808; 09-08-2013 at 04:09 PM.
09-09-2013, 02:18 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
you all know my comments to the crankcase venting thing. keep it all stock. nothing has seemed to work with any of the set ups discussed here and all out solving a problem that i feel doesnt exist, in addition to what greg said. these are street cars, fix them up, put on suspension , wheels and tires and make them look as they should, but stay away from the engine, unless you are stroking it. (personal opinion).
remember ive beat the snot of these cars for over 130 races, 15 years of racing and have NO issues with the car and its stock components (sans the headers and racing exhaust i use because its a race car). its an amazing vehicle. no one has done what ive done as far as reliability and performance with any other car out there. Porsche really made a gem with the 928.
the supercharger, turbo efforts seem to be just a lot of time and money for limited gain. seems a stroker is a clean way to get performance with not a lot of work and it still stays mostly all porsche except for the crank and rods.
remember ive beat the snot of these cars for over 130 races, 15 years of racing and have NO issues with the car and its stock components (sans the headers and racing exhaust i use because its a race car). its an amazing vehicle. no one has done what ive done as far as reliability and performance with any other car out there. Porsche really made a gem with the 928.
the supercharger, turbo efforts seem to be just a lot of time and money for limited gain. seems a stroker is a clean way to get performance with not a lot of work and it still stays mostly all porsche except for the crank and rods.