addco made front sway bar
08-22-2013, 11:19 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
The bars should be easy to make . They are cold formed with only the ends heated so they can be flatened . I made a die set(large hyd brake press) so I could reform my bar , making bars would be easy , but I have too much on the go to take that on . However if any bars that needed rebending arrived on my door I would gladly adjust them .
08-22-2013, 11:25 AM
#17
Developer
I always shuddered at putting an Addco solid bar in where a nice, lightweight hollow sway bar came out.
Porsche went to a lot of trouble to make the 928 bars out of tubular steel and not a solid SUV stick, so we went to the trouble to have our bars made from alloy tube steel also.
My first manufacturer (2005-2008) was hand bending the tubing for us and did a nice job, but had to count on 1 out of every 5 collapsing during the bending process. Bending heavy-walled tube steel is not easy. Anyway - he could make 20 Mustang front bars in the time it took to make 5 928 bars, so I could not interest him in making them any more.
That's when we went to our current design using straight torsion bars (optimal spring curve). It also gained us the benefit of offering 3 different strengths based on wall thickness of the tubing. You cant usually get that from a solid sway bar manufacturer. I like the ability to match the sway bar with the driver, his use, and the suspension. I don't believe in "one size fits all" sway bars.
Porsche went to a lot of trouble to make the 928 bars out of tubular steel and not a solid SUV stick, so we went to the trouble to have our bars made from alloy tube steel also.
My first manufacturer (2005-2008) was hand bending the tubing for us and did a nice job, but had to count on 1 out of every 5 collapsing during the bending process. Bending heavy-walled tube steel is not easy. Anyway - he could make 20 Mustang front bars in the time it took to make 5 928 bars, so I could not interest him in making them any more.
That's when we went to our current design using straight torsion bars (optimal spring curve). It also gained us the benefit of offering 3 different strengths based on wall thickness of the tubing. You cant usually get that from a solid sway bar manufacturer. I like the ability to match the sway bar with the driver, his use, and the suspension. I don't believe in "one size fits all" sway bars.
08-22-2013, 11:51 AM
#18
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Hi Carl,
I have fitted your sway bars to customer cars and also a similar product made by Mark Robinson (Porsche Solutions). Marks bar was on my own GTS and nearly identical in concept to yours.
Nice product of course but we needed to fit a smaller starter to make it work - is that still the case?
For street use the setup was way low on the car and when I hit a cattle grid at triple digits I lost half the bar with some interesting results (not good).
For street use we need something that emulates the stock design but stiffens the result. Weight here would not be an issue for me anyway.
Front stock bar weighs 6.5Lbs and DR's bar weighs 14Lbs.
I have fitted your sway bars to customer cars and also a similar product made by Mark Robinson (Porsche Solutions). Marks bar was on my own GTS and nearly identical in concept to yours.
Nice product of course but we needed to fit a smaller starter to make it work - is that still the case?
For street use the setup was way low on the car and when I hit a cattle grid at triple digits I lost half the bar with some interesting results (not good).
For street use we need something that emulates the stock design but stiffens the result. Weight here would not be an issue for me anyway.
Front stock bar weighs 6.5Lbs and DR's bar weighs 14Lbs.
__________________
Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission?
George Layton March 2014
928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission?
George Layton March 2014928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
08-22-2013, 12:36 PM
#19
Developer
Yes - you are right. When we decided to go with a straight sway bar, the starter got in the way so we had to recommend the high-torque mini-starter also. That does raise the total installed cost of the setup vs. a solid bent sway bar alone.
Coming soon is a sway bar mounting block that will move the sway bar mounts down just enough where our Ultimate sway bar will clear the stock starter. Then customers will not need to buy the mini-starter. Lower final installed cost without sacrificing quality.
Keep in mind that with torsion springs (that's what a sway bar is) the diameter controls the strength of the spring when it is solid. The only way to give customers "choices" is to have different diameters of a solid bar. In tubular bars, it's the wall thickness that changes the spring rate, so we can (and do) offer several spring rates to match the customers spring setup and driving style, but all with the same hardware.
General rule of thumb: Too much front sway bar induces Understeer. Too little front sway bar induces Oversteer. That's why, depending on the tires, suspension spring rate, and the driver - we need choices. There is much more to suspension tuning than that, of course. But just focusing on sway bar rates at this moment.
Once the customer has our kit, changing to a different bar is only $160 and a few minutes. I carry several in my trailer. And then, because we have 3 drop link locating holes in each end - the sway bar settings can also be fine-tuned.
There will always be a place for the customer who just wants something a little stiffer than stock, even though they don't know what it is. Addco makes nice solid bars, I have used them on my Suburban for years. No complaints.
Coming soon is a sway bar mounting block that will move the sway bar mounts down just enough where our Ultimate sway bar will clear the stock starter. Then customers will not need to buy the mini-starter. Lower final installed cost without sacrificing quality.
Keep in mind that with torsion springs (that's what a sway bar is) the diameter controls the strength of the spring when it is solid. The only way to give customers "choices" is to have different diameters of a solid bar. In tubular bars, it's the wall thickness that changes the spring rate, so we can (and do) offer several spring rates to match the customers spring setup and driving style, but all with the same hardware.
General rule of thumb: Too much front sway bar induces Understeer. Too little front sway bar induces Oversteer. That's why, depending on the tires, suspension spring rate, and the driver - we need choices. There is much more to suspension tuning than that, of course. But just focusing on sway bar rates at this moment.
Once the customer has our kit, changing to a different bar is only $160 and a few minutes. I carry several in my trailer. And then, because we have 3 drop link locating holes in each end - the sway bar settings can also be fine-tuned.
There will always be a place for the customer who just wants something a little stiffer than stock, even though they don't know what it is. Addco makes nice solid bars, I have used them on my Suburban for years. No complaints.
08-22-2013, 12:47 PM
#20
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There will always be a place for the customer who just wants something a little stiffer than stock, even though they don't know what it is. Addco makes nice solid bars, I have used them on my Suburban for years. No complaints.
08-22-2013, 01:03 PM
#21
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Yes, I am very happy to say we are still here
Either that, or I am spending all day helping fellow 928ers and shipping orders for nothing LOL!!!I have been having some e-mail bouncing issues. The ones that I have been made aware of, via return bounce notification, I have forwarded to another account and replied again.
As I have always said the DR (Adcco) sway bars are the best. I tried fitting one to the front of my GTS but because I had 9J wheels they clashed on lock. DR agreed to take it back and modify it for me and even sent a pick up tag for collection which we used - sadly never heard or seen of again. So I am out my money and my sway bar.
I am so very sorry, I "thought" I had sent you a check for this a long time ago. Alas, I obviously don't get paid to think.
Rather than trust my faulty memory, if you will please tell me how much I owe you for the front bar, I will get a check on the way today (so I don't forget it AGAIN).
If I may, David suggested you seek out a company in California that can produce the bars using CNC technology for a dependable and consistent size.
We would just like to save you some of the headache and heartache we have been through with the "hand made" bars that consistently varied in size, shape, and quality.
Blessed Be,
Jeannie
08-22-2013, 01:18 PM
#22
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I spoke with David regarding this and we would highly advise against using Addco or any of their ex-employees that produce the bars using the same production method as Addco. If I may, David suggested you seek out a company in California that can produce the bars using CNC technology for a dependable and consistent size. We would just like to save you some of the headache and heartache we have been through with the "hand made" bars that consistently varied in size, shape, and quality.
That piece of information from Dave is worth far more than the cost of the sway bar. Please thank DR for me and we are quits on the money and even.
Best regards,
Roger
08-22-2013, 08:41 PM
#23
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I've had a Devek bar on my car for quite a long time and it's worked great on the street and the track with no issues. The bar is hollow and if I remember correctly, the endlinks slide in and out to allow a few adjustment points. I set it and haven't touched those adjustments since installation. I did have a shop weld some reinforcements around the original center mounting points since they're a known weak point, especially with a stiffer bar.
If anyone still has connections with Susan or Mark, they may want to ask who produced that bar for them. It's a very nice piece.
If anyone still has connections with Susan or Mark, they may want to ask who produced that bar for them. It's a very nice piece.
08-22-2013, 10:17 PM
#24
I always shuddered at putting an Addco solid bar in where a nice, lightweight hollow sway bar came out.
Porsche went to a lot of trouble to make the 928 bars out of tubular steel and not a solid SUV stick, so we went to the trouble to have our bars made from alloy tube steel also.
My first manufacturer (2005-2008) was hand bending the tubing for us and did a nice job, but had to count on 1 out of every 5 collapsing during the bending process. Bending heavy-walled tube steel is not easy. Anyway - he could make 20 Mustang front bars in the time it took to make 5 928 bars, so I could not interest him in making them any more.
That's when we went to our current design using straight torsion bars (optimal spring curve). It also gained us the benefit of offering 3 different strengths based on wall thickness of the tubing. You cant usually get that from a solid sway bar manufacturer. I like the ability to match the sway bar with the driver, his use, and the suspension. I don't believe in "one size fits all" sway bars.
Porsche went to a lot of trouble to make the 928 bars out of tubular steel and not a solid SUV stick, so we went to the trouble to have our bars made from alloy tube steel also.
My first manufacturer (2005-2008) was hand bending the tubing for us and did a nice job, but had to count on 1 out of every 5 collapsing during the bending process. Bending heavy-walled tube steel is not easy. Anyway - he could make 20 Mustang front bars in the time it took to make 5 928 bars, so I could not interest him in making them any more.
That's when we went to our current design using straight torsion bars (optimal spring curve). It also gained us the benefit of offering 3 different strengths based on wall thickness of the tubing. You cant usually get that from a solid sway bar manufacturer. I like the ability to match the sway bar with the driver, his use, and the suspension. I don't believe in "one size fits all" sway bars.
Hi Carl,
I have fitted your sway bars to customer cars and also a similar product made by Mark Robinson (Porsche Solutions). Marks bar was on my own GTS and nearly identical in concept to yours.
Nice product of course but we needed to fit a smaller starter to make it work - is that still the case?
For street use the setup was way low on the car and when I hit a cattle grid at triple digits I lost half the bar with some interesting results (not good).
For street use we need something that emulates the stock design but stiffens the result. Weight here would not be an issue for me anyway.
Front stock bar weighs 6.5Lbs and DR's bar weighs 14Lbs.
I have fitted your sway bars to customer cars and also a similar product made by Mark Robinson (Porsche Solutions). Marks bar was on my own GTS and nearly identical in concept to yours.
Nice product of course but we needed to fit a smaller starter to make it work - is that still the case?
For street use the setup was way low on the car and when I hit a cattle grid at triple digits I lost half the bar with some interesting results (not good).
For street use we need something that emulates the stock design but stiffens the result. Weight here would not be an issue for me anyway.
Front stock bar weighs 6.5Lbs and DR's bar weighs 14Lbs.
Yes - you are right. When we decided to go with a straight sway bar, the starter got in the way so we had to recommend the high-torque mini-starter also. That does raise the total installed cost of the setup vs. a solid bent sway bar alone.
Coming soon is a sway bar mounting block that will move the sway bar mounts down just enough where our Ultimate sway bar will clear the stock starter. Then customers will not need to buy the mini-starter. Lower final installed cost without sacrificing quality.
Keep in mind that with torsion springs (that's what a sway bar is) the diameter controls the strength of the spring when it is solid. The only way to give customers "choices" is to have different diameters of a solid bar. In tubular bars, it's the wall thickness that changes the spring rate, so we can (and do) offer several spring rates to match the customers spring setup and driving style, but all with the same hardware.
General rule of thumb: Too much front sway bar induces Understeer. Too little front sway bar induces Oversteer. That's why, depending on the tires, suspension spring rate, and the driver - we need choices. There is much more to suspension tuning than that, of course. But just focusing on sway bar rates at this moment.
Once the customer has our kit, changing to a different bar is only $160 and a few minutes. I carry several in my trailer. And then, because we have 3 drop link locating holes in each end - the sway bar settings can also be fine-tuned.
There will always be a place for the customer who just wants something a little stiffer than stock, even though they don't know what it is. Addco makes nice solid bars, I have used them on my Suburban for years. No complaints.
Coming soon is a sway bar mounting block that will move the sway bar mounts down just enough where our Ultimate sway bar will clear the stock starter. Then customers will not need to buy the mini-starter. Lower final installed cost without sacrificing quality.
Keep in mind that with torsion springs (that's what a sway bar is) the diameter controls the strength of the spring when it is solid. The only way to give customers "choices" is to have different diameters of a solid bar. In tubular bars, it's the wall thickness that changes the spring rate, so we can (and do) offer several spring rates to match the customers spring setup and driving style, but all with the same hardware.
General rule of thumb: Too much front sway bar induces Understeer. Too little front sway bar induces Oversteer. That's why, depending on the tires, suspension spring rate, and the driver - we need choices. There is much more to suspension tuning than that, of course. But just focusing on sway bar rates at this moment.
Once the customer has our kit, changing to a different bar is only $160 and a few minutes. I carry several in my trailer. And then, because we have 3 drop link locating holes in each end - the sway bar settings can also be fine-tuned.
There will always be a place for the customer who just wants something a little stiffer than stock, even though they don't know what it is. Addco makes nice solid bars, I have used them on my Suburban for years. No complaints.
Hi MJ,
Yes, I am very happy to say we are still here Either that, or I am spending all day helping fellow 928ers and shipping orders for nothing LOL!!!
I have been having some e-mail bouncing issues. The ones that I have been made aware of, via return bounce notification, I have forwarded to another account and replied again.
Hi Roger,
I am so very sorry, I "thought" I had sent you a check for this a long time ago. Alas, I obviously don't get paid to think.
Rather than trust my faulty memory, if you will please tell me how much I owe you for the front bar, I will get a check on the way today (so I don't forget it AGAIN).
I spoke with David regarding this and we would highly advise against using Addco or any of their ex-employees that produce the bars using the same production method as Addco.
If I may, David suggested you seek out a company in California that can produce the bars using CNC technology for a dependable and consistent size.
We would just like to save you some of the headache and heartache we have been through with the "hand made" bars that consistently varied in size, shape, and quality.
Blessed Be,
Jeannie
Yes, I am very happy to say we are still here
Either that, or I am spending all day helping fellow 928ers and shipping orders for nothing LOL!!!I have been having some e-mail bouncing issues. The ones that I have been made aware of, via return bounce notification, I have forwarded to another account and replied again.
Hi Roger,
I am so very sorry, I "thought" I had sent you a check for this a long time ago. Alas, I obviously don't get paid to think.
Rather than trust my faulty memory, if you will please tell me how much I owe you for the front bar, I will get a check on the way today (so I don't forget it AGAIN).
I spoke with David regarding this and we would highly advise against using Addco or any of their ex-employees that produce the bars using the same production method as Addco.
If I may, David suggested you seek out a company in California that can produce the bars using CNC technology for a dependable and consistent size.
We would just like to save you some of the headache and heartache we have been through with the "hand made" bars that consistently varied in size, shape, and quality.
Blessed Be,
Jeannie
08-22-2013, 11:00 PM
#26
08-22-2013, 11:15 PM
#28
I"m going to guess that Wayne didn't want to part with the part. Guess we will just have to keep digging in to the model. BTW, have a bunch more Mercedes parts for you to order, might need to start MercsRus.com.
08-23-2013, 12:41 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
I've had a Devek bar on my car for quite a long time and it's worked great on the street and the track with no issues. The bar is hollow and if I remember correctly, the endlinks slide in and out to allow a few adjustment points. I set it and haven't touched those adjustments since installation. I did have a shop weld some reinforcements around the original center mounting points since they're a known weak point, especially with a stiffer bar.
If anyone still has connections with Susan or Mark, they may want to ask who produced that bar for them. It's a very nice piece.
If anyone still has connections with Susan or Mark, they may want to ask who produced that bar for them. It's a very nice piece.
08-23-2013, 01:17 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
