ammonman

I hate fv<ing alignment techs that don't listed to simple directions While doing my recent A/C and water pump refresh I noticed the inside edges of the front tires were worn down to no tread. Checked the lock nuts for the adjusters and the DS camber took almost no effort with a wrench to turn. None of the adjusters was tightened to the torque I specifically told the tech to use. Worst part is I had the alignment done 10 months ago on the way to OCIC so any time frame for recourse is long gone. I used a shop recommended by other listers as being savvy to 928 alignment and still got hosed.

Rant off.

New tires on the way from Tire Rack and new lower control arms on the way from 928 Intl. A nice trip to my local Sears where I've now trained 2 techs on 928 alignment and I should be good to go again.

Mike

VegasGnome

You are not alone--I feel your pain. Two years ago I replaced upper and lower ball joints and put fresh rubber all around. My local alignment shops machine was down so I had no choice but to take it to the local Porsche dealer. Shortly thereafter I left on a 3500 mile, several month, round trip. On my return I discovered the front tires down to the cords on the inside and the adjusters so loose I could turn them by hand! Like you, it was too late for any recourse. I will NEVER go back to that Porsche dealer for anything.

depami

I have run across mechanics that will intentionally leave something loose just because you told them how to torque.

dr bob

There's no shame in double-checking work you pay for, especially sensitve stuff like this.

----

There's a reason why several in the 928 group have developed our own tools and methods for wheel alignment. It's not rocket science, far from it. But you do have to pay attention to get it to all play together. What's "good enough" for many cars is unacceptable on the 928. I started out at a shop in the SFV that was recommended by others in our little local owners' group. I watched the guy do the work, sat under the car with him. The readings all looked great on his machine, he didn't lift the car at all, and it drove fine. 2000 miles later, $500 worth of Pilot PS2's were corded on the inside edge. Ouch! Took it back to the same shop, same tech, and the readings were still perfect. Obviously something wasn't perfect. So I started building fixtures and working on the math so that mere mortals with a tape measure could get the alignment right. Took a few iterations of method to get it spot-on, but worth the work. Tires wear perfectly, car drives perfectly, and I don't worry about any Bubbas leaving adjuster bolts loose. We've done several cars here over the years besides my own, no complaints so far.

SanDiego928

^^^^ That would be worth a trip to Glendale just to watch you in action. Cool!!

svpmx83

I've always done my own alignments as that is the only way I can be sure the results are correct.
Machines are rarely calibrated as often as they should be, and techs vary from day to day.

I also have a Trackace for quick toe checks between full alignments. Something like this may be a good double check if you still want to have someone else work on your car.

FredR

Not sure what the position is where you are from a legal perspective but I always personally check every step of the way during alignment and use one specific user friendly facility who know me and who I trust.

There is only one parameter in my experience that scrubs a tire rapidly and that is excessive toe out. If something has progressively degraded then you would get a clue if the steering suddenly becomes very twitchy as it transitions through zero toe.

I also recommend folks to occasionally go to the back of their car and look forward along the axis back tire to front tire. If you have a small amount of toe-in set correctly you should not be able to see any sidewall on the front tire.

Not sure how sensitive our rubber is to excessive toe-in but probably much more tolerant than toe-out given toe-in increases straight line stability. It is also easy to set up a parallel laser line and physically measure the difference between the front part and rear part of the rim relative to the laser beam.

Of course you have to go looking in the first place.

Better luck with the new rubber.

Regards

Fred

depami

Interesting. Does the kneeling pad come with it?

Tom in Austin

Alignments are a PITA. I always watch to make sure they don't lift the car, no matter what they say, that's what they're used to doing.

Hadn't thought of it until now, but probably worth also re-torquing the BJ bolts to 88 fl-lbs when you get home afterwards.

Rears are the toughest b/c getting 140 on those buggers isn't a reach underneath with one arm type of deal. On my last alignment I pointed out the spec to the mgr. He nods to me, turns to the tech and says "make those good and tight in back" ...

svpmx83

Sadly no, you have to supply your own carpet square and vehicle

jeff spahn

Please teach me. I want to know how to do this and do it on my own.

VegasGnome

Dr Bob, I would love to be able to do my own wheel alignments. I have followed the several threads on the subject here for some time, and from what I read the equipment would not cost much more than what one typical four wheel alignment costs. It would be money well invested. However, it is the type of procedure I would want to observe being done before jumping into it myself. I think this would be an excellent candidate for a tech session during Sharktoberfest if those with the equipment and knowledge would be willing to demonstrate it. I am sure it would be of great interest to many who attend.

docmirror

Two broomsticks, some string, pencil and a trig table and I can do as well as all the space age stuff. I confirmed it when I just did the Golf replacement of my tie rods a few months ago. After I got all the work done, and did my broomstick job, I took it to a small indie shop in Co Springs. They checked it, and said they couldn't adjust anything because it was dead-nuts on.

mark kibort

just a straight edge to the ground, front of the rim and rear of the rim on both sides of the car.

a little trig, and you have your toe out in inches, and of course degrees if you want to know it.
generally, if the difference is more than 1/8" toe out, you have some issues. you want it to be toed in about 1/16 to a max of 1/8" . its that simple! camber is easy too. using a level on the side of the tire, just get the distance on the top part of the rim to the level. if its 10mm or near 1/2", you are usually ok, in thats near 1 degree camber.
.5" of the top of the rim for vertical divided by, 19" rim touch points = x then INV-TAN on the calculator to get degrees of camber.

dr bob

Mark --- PLEASE stop trying to sell this stuff to discerning owners. It's wrong. I'd be happy to debate the faults with your method in PM, but leave it completely out of a public thread where people might actually believe you.

Unfortunately, there's no convenient way to lock out posts like this. DO NOT EVEN THINK of using a straightedge on the floor as MK suggests. At the distances used looking down from the wheel face, a pencil-width is more than the toe required.

MK-- review your math, and find that the 1/8" --difference-- in measurements is appropriate at almost 30" spacing. 1/8" is small, and 30" is bigger than the wheel.



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