E15 - devil's brew
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,609
Likes: 84
From: MA
I know of two problems with fuels that trip people.
First, there's water in the fuel. That will hurt your chainsaw in storage. It may also hurt the injectors of a diesel engine. This may (or may not) be related to ethanol content of fuel, as I think that ethanol mixes well with water. (I have some of both in my glass right now.)
Second, they used to experiment with methanol in the fuel. That's not pretty, methanol in the fuel mix does cause a lot of fuel system problems, unless the system is specifically designed for methanol.
There may also be problems with ethanol unrelated to water, but I just don't know about those. Maybe plastic parts soften or something.
First, there's water in the fuel. That will hurt your chainsaw in storage. It may also hurt the injectors of a diesel engine. This may (or may not) be related to ethanol content of fuel, as I think that ethanol mixes well with water. (I have some of both in my glass right now.)
Second, they used to experiment with methanol in the fuel. That's not pretty, methanol in the fuel mix does cause a lot of fuel system problems, unless the system is specifically designed for methanol.
There may also be problems with ethanol unrelated to water, but I just don't know about those. Maybe plastic parts soften or something.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,830
Likes: 544
From: Columbus, OH
Ethyl Alcohol a.k.a. Ethanol if very tough on rubber & plastic parts, gaskets, etc, in the fuel system - dries them out and they become brittle. The higher the mix - the faster it happens... In marine applications it is DEATH as it attracts moisture. If left sitting for any length of time (what boat doesnt) it can gum up carbs, fuel pumps, fuel filters & lines and the bottom of fuel tanks with gel... I'm a retired Coast Guard Marine (vessel) Inspector so please dont argue this point... its well documented. If you want to buy Ethanol-Free gasoline go to your nearest marina - they SHOULD have it. Of course your gonna have to pay marina prices. And yes, the Agricultural Lobby & Congress are the main reasons we have Ethanol in our gasoline today. The marine industry & boat manufacturers have been fighting the Ethanol scourge with limited success. The Ag Lobby is HUGE!
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,830
Likes: 544
From: Columbus, OH
I know of two problems with fuels that trip people.
First, there's water in the fuel. That will hurt your chainsaw in storage. It may also hurt the injectors of a diesel engine. This may (or may not) be related to ethanol content of fuel, as I think that ethanol mixes well with water. (I have some of both in my glass right now.)
Second, they used to experiment with methanol in the fuel. That's not pretty, methanol in the fuel mix does cause a lot of fuel system problems, unless the system is specifically designed for methanol.
There may also be problems with ethanol unrelated to water, but I just don't know about those. Maybe plastic parts soften or something.
First, there's water in the fuel. That will hurt your chainsaw in storage. It may also hurt the injectors of a diesel engine. This may (or may not) be related to ethanol content of fuel, as I think that ethanol mixes well with water. (I have some of both in my glass right now.)
Second, they used to experiment with methanol in the fuel. That's not pretty, methanol in the fuel mix does cause a lot of fuel system problems, unless the system is specifically designed for methanol.
There may also be problems with ethanol unrelated to water, but I just don't know about those. Maybe plastic parts soften or something.
It mixes very well with water, 7-Up, Coke & Gingerale and is great on the rocks! When aged in Charcoal barrels in KY its called Bourbon. When distilled a few times more and flavored its called Gin or Vodka.Methanol is wood alcohol and is poisonous... dont get it mixed up with your ethanol at your next party
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,057
Likes: 432
From: Cleveland, MN
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,057
Likes: 432
From: Cleveland, MN
Why pure gas?
Many cars, motorcycles, boats, aircraft and tools have engines that run worse, or have parts that deteriorate, when run on gasoline that contains ethanol. In addition, ethanol leaves residue on valves and other parts that can hinder performance.
Can I test gas myself to see if it contains ethanol?
Yes, and it's quite easy to do. Inexpensive fuel-testing kits are widely available, or you can just do it yourself: (1) pour a small amount of water into a narrow jar (an olive jar works great) and mark the water level with a Sharpie; (2) add the fuel to around a 10:1 fuel:water ratio; (3) shake well, let settle for a few minutes; (4) see if the water level has risen above the mark. If it has risen, it has combined with ethanol from the fuel.
Why does pure gas give me better mileage?
Pure gas gives better mileage than E10, and much better than E85, simply because gasoline has higher free energy than ethanol. The free energy of gasoline is 34.2 MJ per liter. The free energy of ethanol is 24 MJ per liter. That means E10 (10% ethanol) has a free energy of 33.2 MJ per liter, and E85 (85% ethanol) has a free energy of 25.6 MJ per liter. As a result, your mileage is reduced by 3% with E10 over pure gas, and 25% with E85 over pure gas, all else being equal. Mileage can be reduced even more if your engine doesn't run as well on E10, which is often the case.
Many cars, motorcycles, boats, aircraft and tools have engines that run worse, or have parts that deteriorate, when run on gasoline that contains ethanol. In addition, ethanol leaves residue on valves and other parts that can hinder performance.
Can I test gas myself to see if it contains ethanol?
Yes, and it's quite easy to do. Inexpensive fuel-testing kits are widely available, or you can just do it yourself: (1) pour a small amount of water into a narrow jar (an olive jar works great) and mark the water level with a Sharpie; (2) add the fuel to around a 10:1 fuel:water ratio; (3) shake well, let settle for a few minutes; (4) see if the water level has risen above the mark. If it has risen, it has combined with ethanol from the fuel.
Why does pure gas give me better mileage?
Pure gas gives better mileage than E10, and much better than E85, simply because gasoline has higher free energy than ethanol. The free energy of gasoline is 34.2 MJ per liter. The free energy of ethanol is 24 MJ per liter. That means E10 (10% ethanol) has a free energy of 33.2 MJ per liter, and E85 (85% ethanol) has a free energy of 25.6 MJ per liter. As a result, your mileage is reduced by 3% with E10 over pure gas, and 25% with E85 over pure gas, all else being equal. Mileage can be reduced even more if your engine doesn't run as well on E10, which is often the case.
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Joe Kucinski
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
From: Connecticut
jbrob007 is correct. The experiences of boaters that had to deal with old boats switching from gasoline to E10 is similar to the experience old car owners have experienced. When we switched to E10, all gas tanks, fuel filters and components got 'cleaned out' due to the solvent nature of E10. All the years of gunk in the system let go of the walls of the tanks and lines and ended up in the filters and injectors.
Millions of fuel filters and hoses later, most systems, boat and car (and weed whackers), have been serviced and are now working ok. The switch then to E15 may not pose a similar service nightmare. Other problems with properties of E-whatever like attracting moisture, having shorter life, etc. are for another forum.
Millions of fuel filters and hoses later, most systems, boat and car (and weed whackers), have been serviced and are now working ok. The switch then to E15 may not pose a similar service nightmare. Other problems with properties of E-whatever like attracting moisture, having shorter life, etc. are for another forum.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,057
Likes: 432
From: Cleveland, MN
Why risk it? Just buy >>>>> Pure Gas <<<<<.
Another reason for ethanol is that the oxygen content is supposedly conducive to cleaner emissions. Some places it does say “Not for road use” but I have used it in my red car. My thought was that it should last longer before going bad as it contains less oxygen.
This is from an Echo trimmer purchased in 2012.
EchoFuel.JPG
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,830
Likes: 544
From: Columbus, OH
Some cars / boats have replaced the old fuel hoses with "ethanol resistant" hoses ... its bascially a plastic lining inside the hose and it goes to hell just as fast as the rubber hose it replaced. Its a temporary fix at best. Thanks for the info on "Pure Gas"... I'll see what we have local and start buying from there!
Joel
Joel
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,057
Likes: 432
From: Cleveland, MN
Looks like you've got a fair amount in OH but it doesn't show Columbus. Hopefully you can find one on the list that isn't too far away. Who knows, maybe there is in Columbus but just not on the list. Those poor bastards out in AZ, CA & NV don't have much to choose from. I'm sure it's an EPA thing.
Please report what you find for pump labeling. I've only been to two pumps here and they both say "Not for street use".
Almost Deleted
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,009
Likes: 2
From: Muenster, TX
Seriously. Putting any sort of ethanol in gas is bad. It lowers the overall efficiency. Fossil fuels have the highest density of plausible potential energy of any possible fuel source. Is it running out? Yup. More expensive to gather? Yup... but still cheaper than ethanol.
"Green energy" doesn't mean better for the environment, it means "more f-ing expensive". Where does the electricity come from for those Chevy Volts? Coal burning power plants baby.
Addict
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Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,583
Likes: 1,044
From: Boulder Creek, CA
Jl:
Actually..the concept behind the electric car generation issue, is that you centralize the output of the energy created. Gas generation is getting pretty big, nuclear is still large enough out there, and coal is getting a LOT cleaner.
Its still a win over the hydrocarbon supply chain and its distributed vehicle output.
Actually..the concept behind the electric car generation issue, is that you centralize the output of the energy created. Gas generation is getting pretty big, nuclear is still large enough out there, and coal is getting a LOT cleaner.
Its still a win over the hydrocarbon supply chain and its distributed vehicle output.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,778
Likes: 1
From: Singhampton, Ontario/London, Ontario