Sub 2 mins at T-hill at what cost?
12-18-2012, 05:43 PM
#16
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Everyone......don't be fooled by the BIG HP bandwagon......yes it is important, but it is by far the least important part of a racecar.....handling is #1, weight, balance, braking are far more important that power alone....
Casper is quite light...& there is more room to go lighter....possibly 2550lbs with some extreme measures... Casper also is surprisningly NOT nose heavy....52.6% with me in the car and 1/2 tank....it is the fastest turning (think direction changing) race 928 I have ever driven..... Small steering wheel, solid steering rack bushings, hard A arm bushings and heim jointed suspension all contribute to this....
My opinions....my best is 2:02.12 right now with a 2:01.41 theoritical best....on USED slicks with NO aero at all.....Fresh slicks is probably a second easy.....aero is much more.... I am going out again the end of this month.....if the weather is decent we shall see... I think Casper at 300whp could break 2:00 over the top....for sure with aero....
Casper is quite light...& there is more room to go lighter....possibly 2550lbs with some extreme measures... Casper also is surprisningly NOT nose heavy....52.6% with me in the car and 1/2 tank....it is the fastest turning (think direction changing) race 928 I have ever driven..... Small steering wheel, solid steering rack bushings, hard A arm bushings and heim jointed suspension all contribute to this....
My opinions....my best is 2:02.12 right now with a 2:01.41 theoritical best....on USED slicks with NO aero at all.....Fresh slicks is probably a second easy.....aero is much more.... I am going out again the end of this month.....if the weather is decent we shall see... I think Casper at 300whp could break 2:00 over the top....for sure with aero....
12-18-2012, 11:28 PM
#17
Nordschleife Master
I have my doubts about a "simple" SC system working well on a road course due to heat rise from the duty cycle without a full cool down between spurts.
Advantage of the Euro hybrid is that it can slip past some costs, with used 968 pistons you can do a cheap bore without Nikasil coating, just cost of rods and no "real" need for a stroker crank to make 350 rwhp, just a hotter cam, chips, and good exhaust. Something like $500 to bore the block, $300 for two sets of 4 968 pistons, $1600 for rods, $1100 for rewelded cams, $700 for lifters and 951 valve springs, $1k for exhaust, $500 gasket set, plus cost of the US and Euro basic parts, total looks around $10k. About $3k less if you skip the 104 bore, and maybe the rest would be sufficient?
Advantage of the Euro hybrid is that it can slip past some costs, with used 968 pistons you can do a cheap bore without Nikasil coating, just cost of rods and no "real" need for a stroker crank to make 350 rwhp, just a hotter cam, chips, and good exhaust. Something like $500 to bore the block, $300 for two sets of 4 968 pistons, $1600 for rods, $1100 for rewelded cams, $700 for lifters and 951 valve springs, $1k for exhaust, $500 gasket set, plus cost of the US and Euro basic parts, total looks around $10k. About $3k less if you skip the 104 bore, and maybe the rest would be sufficient?
12-18-2012, 11:38 PM
#18
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Everyone......don't be fooled by the BIG HP bandwagon......yes it is important, but it is by far the least important part of a racecar.....handling is #1, weight, balance, braking are far more important that power alone....
Casper is quite light...& there is more room to go lighter....possibly 2550lbs with some extreme measures... Casper also is surprisningly NOT nose heavy....52.6% with me in the car and 1/2 tank....it is the fastest turning (think direction changing) race 928 I have ever driven..... Small steering wheel, solid steering rack bushings, hard A arm bushings and heim jointed suspension all contribute to this....
My opinions....my best is 2:02.12 right now with a 2:01.41 theoritical best....on USED slicks with NO aero at all.....Fresh slicks is probably a second easy.....aero is much more.... I am going out again the end of this month.....if the weather is decent we shall see... I think Casper at 300whp could break 2:00 over the top....for sure with aero....
Casper is quite light...& there is more room to go lighter....possibly 2550lbs with some extreme measures... Casper also is surprisningly NOT nose heavy....52.6% with me in the car and 1/2 tank....it is the fastest turning (think direction changing) race 928 I have ever driven..... Small steering wheel, solid steering rack bushings, hard A arm bushings and heim jointed suspension all contribute to this....
My opinions....my best is 2:02.12 right now with a 2:01.41 theoritical best....on USED slicks with NO aero at all.....Fresh slicks is probably a second easy.....aero is much more.... I am going out again the end of this month.....if the weather is decent we shall see... I think Casper at 300whp could break 2:00 over the top....for sure with aero....
howevrer, with 50 more HP you would get down a second for sure, but not much more. thunderhill is not really much of an aero track, but if you got it and actually use it, it can help in turn 8 and turn 1
12-18-2012, 11:53 PM
#19
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your smoking the slick crack right now. put the DOTs back on and watch you go back to the 2:04s. (which is very fast by the way.)
howevrer, with 50 more HP you would get down a second for sure, but not much more. thunderhill is not really much of an aero track, but if you got it and actually use it, it can help in turn 8 and turn 1
howevrer, with 50 more HP you would get down a second for sure, but not much more. thunderhill is not really much of an aero track, but if you got it and actually use it, it can help in turn 8 and turn 1
Which leaves the other 2.3 miles with a lot of drag (add more HP) to manage.
12-18-2012, 11:54 PM
#20
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I have my doubts about a "simple" SC system working well on a road course due to heat rise from the duty cycle without a full cool down between spurts.
Advantage of the Euro hybrid is that it can slip past some costs, with used 968 pistons you can do a cheap bore without Nikasil coating, just cost of rods and no "real" need for a stroker crank to make 350 rwhp, just a hotter cam, chips, and good exhaust. Something like $500 to bore the block, $300 for two sets of 4 968 pistons, $1600 for rods, $1100 for rewelded cams, $700 for lifters and 951 valve springs, $1k for exhaust, $500 gasket set, plus cost of the US and Euro basic parts, total looks around $10k. About $3k less if you skip the 104 bore, and maybe the rest would be sufficient?
Advantage of the Euro hybrid is that it can slip past some costs, with used 968 pistons you can do a cheap bore without Nikasil coating, just cost of rods and no "real" need for a stroker crank to make 350 rwhp, just a hotter cam, chips, and good exhaust. Something like $500 to bore the block, $300 for two sets of 4 968 pistons, $1600 for rods, $1100 for rewelded cams, $700 for lifters and 951 valve springs, $1k for exhaust, $500 gasket set, plus cost of the US and Euro basic parts, total looks around $10k. About $3k less if you skip the 104 bore, and maybe the rest would be sufficient?
12-18-2012, 11:56 PM
#21
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I have my doubts about a "simple" SC system working well on a road course due to heat rise from the duty cycle without a full cool down between spurts.
Advantage of the Euro hybrid is that it can slip past some costs, with used 968 pistons you can do a cheap bore without Nikasil coating, just cost of rods and no "real" need for a stroker crank to make 350 rwhp, just a hotter cam, chips, and good exhaust. Something like $500 to bore the block, $300 for two sets of 4 968 pistons, $1600 for rods, $1100 for rewelded cams, $700 for lifters and 951 valve springs, $1k for exhaust, $500 gasket set, plus cost of the US and Euro basic parts, total looks around $10k. About $3k less if you skip the 104 bore, and maybe the rest would be sufficient?
Advantage of the Euro hybrid is that it can slip past some costs, with used 968 pistons you can do a cheap bore without Nikasil coating, just cost of rods and no "real" need for a stroker crank to make 350 rwhp, just a hotter cam, chips, and good exhaust. Something like $500 to bore the block, $300 for two sets of 4 968 pistons, $1600 for rods, $1100 for rewelded cams, $700 for lifters and 951 valve springs, $1k for exhaust, $500 gasket set, plus cost of the US and Euro basic parts, total looks around $10k. About $3k less if you skip the 104 bore, and maybe the rest would be sufficient?
I have just accurired the crank rods pistons etc for a 6.4L bottom end. I will be running the heads with 968 valves and modified S3 cams I purchased from Jim Morton several years ago and possibly the ITB set up I just bought from Mike Simard and a motec ECU This engine should make 550 Rwhp easily but that's a $ 15k motor min. Going in the new Widow.
I agree with danglerb that the euro 5.0L is the best value option I just bought a block from Mark a to build the bottom end. Eventually it will find its way into the # 52 car. My goal for the 52 is 2:00 min and under $ 10K
12-18-2012, 11:56 PM
#22
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exactly. however, all that drag, might only be 5hp, but its 5 hp over the , probably more like 2.7miles. (3miles minus 100 yards of turn 1 and turn 8 and possiblly a little on the 65mph turn2)
12-18-2012, 11:59 PM
#23
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To your point I have a supercharged 16v 475rwhp 1980 It would break 2:min easily at T-hill but would probabaly only run 4-5 laps before overheating. It would have comparable straight away speed to a cup car think 150 Mph before breaking for turn One. Fast as stink I tried to race it last season it was a huge headache dealing with the over heating issue.
I have just accurired the crank rods pistons etc for a 6.4L bottom end. I will be running the heads with 968 valves and modified S3 cams I purchased from Jim Morton several years ago and possibly the ITB set up I just bought from Mike Simard and a motec ECU This engine should make 550 Rwhp easily but that's a $ 15k motor min. Going in the new Widow.
I agree with danglerb that the euro 5.0L is the best value option I just bought a block from Mark a to build the bottom end. Eventually it will find its way into the # 52 car. My goal for the 52 is 2:00 min and under $ 10K
I have just accurired the crank rods pistons etc for a 6.4L bottom end. I will be running the heads with 968 valves and modified S3 cams I purchased from Jim Morton several years ago and possibly the ITB set up I just bought from Mike Simard and a motec ECU This engine should make 550 Rwhp easily but that's a $ 15k motor min. Going in the new Widow.
I agree with danglerb that the euro 5.0L is the best value option I just bought a block from Mark a to build the bottom end. Eventually it will find its way into the # 52 car. My goal for the 52 is 2:00 min and under $ 10K
I thnk the only one that might would be the 1000hp old mercury that races in GT1 with SCCA
where are you getting this $10k number when you already have $10k into the #52, or did you get into that car for CHEAP!!
12-19-2012, 12:18 AM
#24
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Paid $ 5 k for the car.
Mark you telling me the cup cars can't hit 150 at T- hill? That's what they saw a the Edmonton Indy track which has a similar length straight and a lower entry speed.
Mark you telling me the cup cars can't hit 150 at T- hill? That's what they saw a the Edmonton Indy track which has a similar length straight and a lower entry speed.
12-19-2012, 12:26 AM
#25
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I dont think anyone we know, with a cup car or top winning ITE, AV8SS, or even transam car, gets to 150mph into turn 1. ( or its very rare) cup cars, WCGT Vipers, etc, get to 140.
I thnk the only one that might would be the 1000hp old mercury that races in GT1 with SCCA
where are you getting this $10k number when you already have $10k into the #52, or did you get into that car for CHEAP!!
I thnk the only one that might would be the 1000hp old mercury that races in GT1 with SCCA
where are you getting this $10k number when you already have $10k into the #52, or did you get into that car for CHEAP!!
Brian you there?
12-19-2012, 12:54 AM
#26
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150 is a pretty stout speed at thunderhill. check on mike hedman's cup car ,runing 1:51s . sure , its not the latest , but pretty new.
475hp/460lb.ft
12-19-2012, 01:00 AM
#28
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I just checked out the Winning 25 hr cup car video. Looks like Memo Gidly was close to red line in 6th at the end of the straight. So pretty quick! I think the rims on that thing were probabaly more than $10K definetely worth more than I paid for the 52 .
12-19-2012, 01:11 AM
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I think the fender rad is too small and I need better ducting to the engine main rad.
I can drive around town all day in 90Deg heat with no problem. I am having the problem under racing conditions and 90 Deg F ambient temps.
I like the power but the system is a pita and not a good idea for racing. In my opinion
12-19-2012, 01:13 AM
#30
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http://www.facebook.com/Merc9Speed#!...type=2&theater
Here is the merc running with near 1000 hp. 150mph , and there is not many that can keep up on the straights. a brand new cup car, maybe, but it has to be a new one.
Here is the merc running with near 1000 hp. 150mph , and there is not many that can keep up on the straights. a brand new cup car, maybe, but it has to be a new one.