Because one Porsche isn't expensive enough. Lemons. 928. SBC. Right here.
11-20-2012, 06:48 PM
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Because one Porsche isn't expensive enough. Lemons. 928. SBC. Right here.
This story was originally posted about a month ago on another forum. However, with the F1 race in town this weekend, my new Lemons project came up and a fellow 928 owner said I should really repost the thread here.
I don't know how popular this will be, my 928 is really bastardized and has a small block chevy motor in it now courtesy of some rednecks and what appears to be a Renegade Hybrids kit. It's an odd piece of machinery, to be sure, but absolutely perfect for a Lemons/Chumpcar race car. I feel bad for the car, but at least it will go racing instead of rotting in a yard.
Schatten, referred to several times in the story, is my friend and co-owner. That's his nick on most forums. Excuse the language, the forum this was originally posted at is a little salty and I don't have time to rewrite it.
Other than my co-conspirator, names are left out to protect the not-so-innocent. The story is also told to the best of my recollection. Some liberties may have been taken to make a better story and to allow associated parties an excuse to say "it didn't really happen that way", but the facts as presented are more or less correct and differ only in superficial ways.
Story Begins: The inspiration
This story starts over a year ago. I'm in a junkyard. I spot this wonderful piece of German engineering languishing in the backlot.
My first thought after closely inspecting it was that it might be a Lemons candidate, and posted as such on my Facebook. Two judges that I'm friends with said "you'd better do this." One of them said, "put a small block Chevy in it."
We all had a big laugh. I went with Schatten a few days later for closer inspection. If you couldn't tell from the first photo, it was "pretty rough", which really meant basket case. On the plus side, it was a gray market Euro spec 928S, meaning it made 300hp when it arrived here 30 years ago. It was functionally complete, meaning motor, running gear, and the ever elusive manual transmission. And "running when parked" according to the owner of the junkyard.
Of course, it was trashed. The interior was gone. Someone had cut the top off to make a half-assed convertible 928, then half-assed welded it back on. Ick.
To cap everything off, somehow this abandoned car was absolutely infested with ants.
We negotiated anyway. Guy wanted no less than $3,000. This was not only exceptionally outside our budget, it was exceptionally ludicrous. This car is still sitting in the junkyard to this day. Perhaps you're interested in pictures of Porsche decay, but they're not relevant to the story, so no thumbs. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Quest Derailed: Hiatus
Our interest was piqued though. We'd done some comparison shopping before heading to the junkyard and we found that Porsche 928's just aren't worth all that much, despite the fact that this was the best car Porsche knew how to build in the 1980's. Even a pristine late 80's model might only return $10,000, and that's on a good day. Combine the high price of Porsche parts, and if you've let your 928 sit out in the elements, it's going to be worth next to nothing. You can find them all day long on Craigslist under $3000 and I'm under the opinion any car routinely found at that price can be had for $500 on the right day and under the right conditions.
I was right. I found one about a month later. It was a 1983 Euro S ... with the automatic transmission. Not ideal, but I thought I could work with it. Schatten agreed, we called the guy, agreed on a price and were going to pick it up that Sunday and drive it home. That's when he said the fateful words, "provided one of us doesn't do something catastrophic between now and then. Like blow up a motor."
On Thursday, I grenade the Cayman's motor. It's a long story, but I finally got my insurance company to cover it. It was a $15,000 repair, and that was with a used motor from a 2008 Cayman S. Porsche motors are not cheap. The Cayman has been running since late January but will never go on a track again. Needless to say it was a really awful time and I didn't document it. All I have is this really blurry photo of the old motor on a pallet.
I know I need a racecar, so I start looking. I find a few promising cars, but they all slip through my hands for one reason or another. I'm still chasing the elusive 928, knowing its out there. I run searches in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin about once a week. Nothing.
All. Year. Long.
Challenge Accepted: 928 SBC
Early this week, something pops up. It's a little rough, but workable. He wants a little too much for it, but I know what the cars are worth and how far I can probably talk him down. Before I can contact him, it goes from $3500 to $2000. Later, before I can even pick it up, it goes to $1000.
Besides the drag slicks, it's stripped and has a legitimate roll cage. It's also filthy as all hell.
Some weird **** hanging down in the rear. Hmmm.
And some really weird **** going on with the hood. Whatever's under there, it's not the original motor.
Not by a long shot. This is advertised as a "drag car". It's got huge Hoosier slicks, and a "68 Corvette 327" in it. You might find a few other oddities in the ad.
Needless to say, after the quickest consultation with Schatten, we said "hell yes" and contacted the guy. Car does run. It "moves", theoretically. Clutch supposedly won't disengage. But I "won't be disappointed." The car is 200 miles away, I really hope not. Still, it's a ****ing Frankencar, can't be driven, can't be restored, and isn't attractive to "American Muscle" types or Porsche club types. Oh, and did I mention that it has no GODDAMN TITLE? Yeah, 'cause these jokers can't find it.
Still, I think I'm in the money. We round up a truck, a trailer, and a couple of friends who want go 400 miles out of their way after work in the middle of the week. For some reason. On the way there, the price on the car has dropped to $1000 and this guy has called me several times to make sure I'm coming. Against my better judgement, I am going to potentially buy a race car in the dark, 200 miles from home with no title. My father would tell me I'm an idiot. I don't bother calling him.
My girlfriend thinks I'm an idiot. She asks if one Porsche isn't expensive enough and asks me if I haven't learned my lesson with Porsche motors. I realize I've neglected to mention the SBC. After learning of this fact, she immediately asks, "you're going to get it tonight, right?" Yes I am.
As we drive out there, it becomes apparent this is a total redneck operation -- as if that wasn't apparent from the photos and the swap idea. First, I'm picking this up on a street named for a major Civil War hero. Southern, of course. It's not fifth ward Houston, but it's definitely not prime addresses either. There's a major mining or drilling operation going on right in the middle of a residential neighborhood. Oh, that's right, Houston. The only major city with absolutely no zoning.
The street is barely two lanes wide. Six foot ditches are on either side, and they are right up on the road. You are not going to "pull over on the side". No sidewalks. No streetlights. Of course, the 928 sticks out like a sore thumb. As we pull to a stop and try to figure out the parking situation with the truck and trailer, we're invited to pull into the "circular" driveway. We're confused because we just see a straight piece of concrete that would constitute anything someone would call a driveway.
After a brief conversation, we realize that he means that we are supposed to pull the truck and trailer up near the house and use the front lawn as the circular driveway. Of course. As we get out, a pit bull puppy runs up to me. I am later offered a pit bull puppy. It is uncertain if it's this one or one of a litter they just had or if I have to pay for it. Even later, I am told I cannot go inside the house because, and I quote, "we got a mean dog." Oh, of course you do.
The large bear of a man who has greeted us has a very stereotypical redneck name and I will refer to him as "redneck dad". He also has a son with a very redneck backstory that might be too identifying, and I will call him "redneck son". Redneck son is the one with the 928. Redneck dad actually builds drag cars. Or, trucks. He's got a ****ing awesome 1950's Chevrolet pickup with a big block Chevy and nitrous. He is absolutely AI, very ****ing cool, and had I not had to be at work at 8am, I would have loved to hang out with him and drink beer with him all night long.
Redneck son bought the car thinking that dad would help him build a drag car. His idea of help was "build it for me." Dad obviously has no tolerance for this. He informs us that his son is a "lazy sack of ****" who has "sat around for a year playing XBox instead of working on his damn car." He keeps threatening the son with "get this piece of **** out of my driveway or I'm going to crush it."
This improves the son's bargaining position immensely, as you can imagine.
So, the moment of truth. The car looks as it does in the photos. Definitely a 10 foot car though. Still, I can't find anything seriously wrong with it, other than the mentioned clutch issue. Come to find out, it's not what I thought, they just never hooked it up. Weird. Lights don't go up and down because the vacuum has never been hooked up either. But they do move manually. Cool.
Car stinks like they had a crawfish boil in it. Probably did. There's a worrisome "access hole" cut in the firewall that will have to be welded up. Cage isn't Lemons or Chumpcar legal -- no backing plates and unacceptable bends on the rear stays -- but it's solid. No interior. Windows don't roll down, though the motors seem to work. Keys still operate the door locks, but all the Porsche switch gear has been replaced. Engine swap seems to be a pretty professional deal. Engine looks really nice. Lots of chrome and pretty bits. Air filter doesn't have retaining hardware though. The stuff hanging down in the back is somehow related to the emergency brake -- but the ebrake works. OK. A few other odds and ends and general scuzzification, but the kid is right, I'm really not disappointed.
We ask him to start it. This is about the time I notice the straight pipes off the headers. It is well past 10pm. In a residential neighborhood. To my complete and utter surprise, it cranks up on the first try. Let me also say that this sucker is LOUD. Like "interfering with talking" loud. At idle. Without asking, the kid shows me that it actually revs up and runs well. I am now deaf in one ear.
Of course, I need to see it move. I am told we can put it in gear and start it. I can drive it "around the property". Looking at all the trees and the general condition of the land and the fact that it's dark, I decline. However, we're informed that we can jack up the rear end and watch the wheels spin. Sure. And we do. They wheel a small jack out from somewhere, get the rear end in the air, and while the car wobbles on the jack, they start it, run it, and go through the gears. Amazing. Dangerous. Of course.
Did I mention the car has coilovers? Yeah, that's how they lifted the rear end enough to fit the slicks under it. They just raised them until they wouldn't go any higher.
Then they haul out the binder. Seriously. There is a binder full of all the parts and crap that has been put into this car over the years. There's the original eBay listing for the motor they got. Wiring diagrams for the swap kit. The Porsche transaxle shop manual. The receipts for all sorts of parts from a fuel cell to the Hoosiers to a Harbor Freight kill switch. All this and there's still no sign of a title. I am 90% positive at this point that the car is stolen.
Kid is asking if I want it. **** YES I WANT IT. Not that I say that. I pull Schatten aside like we're discussing how ****ty this whole deal is. We come back, explain what we want the car for, why our budget is absolutely no more than $500, and how the lack of a title and the general sketchiness of the whole deal makes this a tough sell. We pull out $500 cash and tell him either we leave with the car on a trailer for that amount or we go home without it.
Meanwhile dad is still yelling about how he needs to get this piece of **** off his property tonight. Right ****in' now.
He takes it.
We are now kinda sorta the proud new owners of a 928 with an uncertain history and provenance. We get a bill of sale and really hope that's enough. Dad brings out a tractor from seemingly thin air (of course) and he and his two kids use that to push the car on our trailer. The previous owner very nearly loses a few fingers being careless between the car and the tractor.
As we're securing the car on the trailer, dad comes by to talk to us. "There's nothing wrong with this got-damned car. My son is just a lazy sack of **** and won't do ****. It's all simple and it's nearly complete. You gotta take this hose and stick it in there. But it's too short, so you gotta get a new one. These two hoses are swapped. Swap 'em back. Hook this up, change that and fix this thing over here, and it'll run just fine." Well, ok then. Let's get this thing out of here before anyone can change their mind.
It is three AM by the time we get home and get the car off the trailer. Car rolls easy enough that one person can push it around on the street. Brakes are firm, but even with the engine off and no power assist, they work well. All the lights work. WTF.
Friday I headed to the DMV. Come to find out, lost titles are fairly common here in Texas. The lady laughed at my story, handed me a bunch of paperwork to fill out, charged me no money, and gave me a bunch of paperwork in return. The car is not stolen. No liens. From the paperwork, it appears they were telling the truth. It originally belonged to someone on the other side of Houston who appears to have done all the work. He sold it, that guy never transferred the title because race car. It traded hands in the family until the son ended up with it. We have to pay $100 to get a bonded title, fill out some paperwork, and we will be the full legal owners. We can also buy an antique plate for this car (over 25 years old) and it won't even need an inspection to be driven on the road. That will likely be Monday or Tuesday.
We have not done any work on it yet. I've not seen it in the light of day. We haven't started it since it went on the trailer. We compiled a short list of obvious items that need to be addressed, but it's only 50 or so mostly minor items. Tomorrow starts the first of the work.
As to why I bought a $500 car with another guy, it's mainly because I know how much it costs to build a Lemons/Chumpcar. I've seen too many built, even though it's a $500 car, it'll cost you several thousand by the time you're done. Splitting that cost is nice.
I'll keep updating the thread as we build the car. I need as much documentation as I can get and this will help me keep it organized. Feel free to ask any questions. I'm sure Schatten will be along sometime tomorrow to explain his side of things and how I got it totally wrong.
I don't know how popular this will be, my 928 is really bastardized and has a small block chevy motor in it now courtesy of some rednecks and what appears to be a Renegade Hybrids kit. It's an odd piece of machinery, to be sure, but absolutely perfect for a Lemons/Chumpcar race car. I feel bad for the car, but at least it will go racing instead of rotting in a yard.
Schatten, referred to several times in the story, is my friend and co-owner. That's his nick on most forums. Excuse the language, the forum this was originally posted at is a little salty and I don't have time to rewrite it.
Other than my co-conspirator, names are left out to protect the not-so-innocent. The story is also told to the best of my recollection. Some liberties may have been taken to make a better story and to allow associated parties an excuse to say "it didn't really happen that way", but the facts as presented are more or less correct and differ only in superficial ways.
Story Begins: The inspiration
This story starts over a year ago. I'm in a junkyard. I spot this wonderful piece of German engineering languishing in the backlot.
My first thought after closely inspecting it was that it might be a Lemons candidate, and posted as such on my Facebook. Two judges that I'm friends with said "you'd better do this." One of them said, "put a small block Chevy in it."
We all had a big laugh. I went with Schatten a few days later for closer inspection. If you couldn't tell from the first photo, it was "pretty rough", which really meant basket case. On the plus side, it was a gray market Euro spec 928S, meaning it made 300hp when it arrived here 30 years ago. It was functionally complete, meaning motor, running gear, and the ever elusive manual transmission. And "running when parked" according to the owner of the junkyard.
Of course, it was trashed. The interior was gone. Someone had cut the top off to make a half-assed convertible 928, then half-assed welded it back on. Ick.
To cap everything off, somehow this abandoned car was absolutely infested with ants.
We negotiated anyway. Guy wanted no less than $3,000. This was not only exceptionally outside our budget, it was exceptionally ludicrous. This car is still sitting in the junkyard to this day. Perhaps you're interested in pictures of Porsche decay, but they're not relevant to the story, so no thumbs. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Quest Derailed: Hiatus
Our interest was piqued though. We'd done some comparison shopping before heading to the junkyard and we found that Porsche 928's just aren't worth all that much, despite the fact that this was the best car Porsche knew how to build in the 1980's. Even a pristine late 80's model might only return $10,000, and that's on a good day. Combine the high price of Porsche parts, and if you've let your 928 sit out in the elements, it's going to be worth next to nothing. You can find them all day long on Craigslist under $3000 and I'm under the opinion any car routinely found at that price can be had for $500 on the right day and under the right conditions.
I was right. I found one about a month later. It was a 1983 Euro S ... with the automatic transmission. Not ideal, but I thought I could work with it. Schatten agreed, we called the guy, agreed on a price and were going to pick it up that Sunday and drive it home. That's when he said the fateful words, "provided one of us doesn't do something catastrophic between now and then. Like blow up a motor."
On Thursday, I grenade the Cayman's motor. It's a long story, but I finally got my insurance company to cover it. It was a $15,000 repair, and that was with a used motor from a 2008 Cayman S. Porsche motors are not cheap. The Cayman has been running since late January but will never go on a track again. Needless to say it was a really awful time and I didn't document it. All I have is this really blurry photo of the old motor on a pallet.
I know I need a racecar, so I start looking. I find a few promising cars, but they all slip through my hands for one reason or another. I'm still chasing the elusive 928, knowing its out there. I run searches in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin about once a week. Nothing.
All. Year. Long.
Challenge Accepted: 928 SBC
Early this week, something pops up. It's a little rough, but workable. He wants a little too much for it, but I know what the cars are worth and how far I can probably talk him down. Before I can contact him, it goes from $3500 to $2000. Later, before I can even pick it up, it goes to $1000.
Besides the drag slicks, it's stripped and has a legitimate roll cage. It's also filthy as all hell.
Some weird **** hanging down in the rear. Hmmm.
And some really weird **** going on with the hood. Whatever's under there, it's not the original motor.
Not by a long shot. This is advertised as a "drag car". It's got huge Hoosier slicks, and a "68 Corvette 327" in it. You might find a few other oddities in the ad.
Needless to say, after the quickest consultation with Schatten, we said "hell yes" and contacted the guy. Car does run. It "moves", theoretically. Clutch supposedly won't disengage. But I "won't be disappointed." The car is 200 miles away, I really hope not. Still, it's a ****ing Frankencar, can't be driven, can't be restored, and isn't attractive to "American Muscle" types or Porsche club types. Oh, and did I mention that it has no GODDAMN TITLE? Yeah, 'cause these jokers can't find it.
Still, I think I'm in the money. We round up a truck, a trailer, and a couple of friends who want go 400 miles out of their way after work in the middle of the week. For some reason. On the way there, the price on the car has dropped to $1000 and this guy has called me several times to make sure I'm coming. Against my better judgement, I am going to potentially buy a race car in the dark, 200 miles from home with no title. My father would tell me I'm an idiot. I don't bother calling him.
My girlfriend thinks I'm an idiot. She asks if one Porsche isn't expensive enough and asks me if I haven't learned my lesson with Porsche motors. I realize I've neglected to mention the SBC. After learning of this fact, she immediately asks, "you're going to get it tonight, right?" Yes I am.
As we drive out there, it becomes apparent this is a total redneck operation -- as if that wasn't apparent from the photos and the swap idea. First, I'm picking this up on a street named for a major Civil War hero. Southern, of course. It's not fifth ward Houston, but it's definitely not prime addresses either. There's a major mining or drilling operation going on right in the middle of a residential neighborhood. Oh, that's right, Houston. The only major city with absolutely no zoning.
The street is barely two lanes wide. Six foot ditches are on either side, and they are right up on the road. You are not going to "pull over on the side". No sidewalks. No streetlights. Of course, the 928 sticks out like a sore thumb. As we pull to a stop and try to figure out the parking situation with the truck and trailer, we're invited to pull into the "circular" driveway. We're confused because we just see a straight piece of concrete that would constitute anything someone would call a driveway.
After a brief conversation, we realize that he means that we are supposed to pull the truck and trailer up near the house and use the front lawn as the circular driveway. Of course. As we get out, a pit bull puppy runs up to me. I am later offered a pit bull puppy. It is uncertain if it's this one or one of a litter they just had or if I have to pay for it. Even later, I am told I cannot go inside the house because, and I quote, "we got a mean dog." Oh, of course you do.
The large bear of a man who has greeted us has a very stereotypical redneck name and I will refer to him as "redneck dad". He also has a son with a very redneck backstory that might be too identifying, and I will call him "redneck son". Redneck son is the one with the 928. Redneck dad actually builds drag cars. Or, trucks. He's got a ****ing awesome 1950's Chevrolet pickup with a big block Chevy and nitrous. He is absolutely AI, very ****ing cool, and had I not had to be at work at 8am, I would have loved to hang out with him and drink beer with him all night long.
Redneck son bought the car thinking that dad would help him build a drag car. His idea of help was "build it for me." Dad obviously has no tolerance for this. He informs us that his son is a "lazy sack of ****" who has "sat around for a year playing XBox instead of working on his damn car." He keeps threatening the son with "get this piece of **** out of my driveway or I'm going to crush it."
This improves the son's bargaining position immensely, as you can imagine.
So, the moment of truth. The car looks as it does in the photos. Definitely a 10 foot car though. Still, I can't find anything seriously wrong with it, other than the mentioned clutch issue. Come to find out, it's not what I thought, they just never hooked it up. Weird. Lights don't go up and down because the vacuum has never been hooked up either. But they do move manually. Cool.
Car stinks like they had a crawfish boil in it. Probably did. There's a worrisome "access hole" cut in the firewall that will have to be welded up. Cage isn't Lemons or Chumpcar legal -- no backing plates and unacceptable bends on the rear stays -- but it's solid. No interior. Windows don't roll down, though the motors seem to work. Keys still operate the door locks, but all the Porsche switch gear has been replaced. Engine swap seems to be a pretty professional deal. Engine looks really nice. Lots of chrome and pretty bits. Air filter doesn't have retaining hardware though. The stuff hanging down in the back is somehow related to the emergency brake -- but the ebrake works. OK. A few other odds and ends and general scuzzification, but the kid is right, I'm really not disappointed.
We ask him to start it. This is about the time I notice the straight pipes off the headers. It is well past 10pm. In a residential neighborhood. To my complete and utter surprise, it cranks up on the first try. Let me also say that this sucker is LOUD. Like "interfering with talking" loud. At idle. Without asking, the kid shows me that it actually revs up and runs well. I am now deaf in one ear.
Of course, I need to see it move. I am told we can put it in gear and start it. I can drive it "around the property". Looking at all the trees and the general condition of the land and the fact that it's dark, I decline. However, we're informed that we can jack up the rear end and watch the wheels spin. Sure. And we do. They wheel a small jack out from somewhere, get the rear end in the air, and while the car wobbles on the jack, they start it, run it, and go through the gears. Amazing. Dangerous. Of course.
Did I mention the car has coilovers? Yeah, that's how they lifted the rear end enough to fit the slicks under it. They just raised them until they wouldn't go any higher.
Then they haul out the binder. Seriously. There is a binder full of all the parts and crap that has been put into this car over the years. There's the original eBay listing for the motor they got. Wiring diagrams for the swap kit. The Porsche transaxle shop manual. The receipts for all sorts of parts from a fuel cell to the Hoosiers to a Harbor Freight kill switch. All this and there's still no sign of a title. I am 90% positive at this point that the car is stolen.
Kid is asking if I want it. **** YES I WANT IT. Not that I say that. I pull Schatten aside like we're discussing how ****ty this whole deal is. We come back, explain what we want the car for, why our budget is absolutely no more than $500, and how the lack of a title and the general sketchiness of the whole deal makes this a tough sell. We pull out $500 cash and tell him either we leave with the car on a trailer for that amount or we go home without it.
Meanwhile dad is still yelling about how he needs to get this piece of **** off his property tonight. Right ****in' now.
He takes it.
We are now kinda sorta the proud new owners of a 928 with an uncertain history and provenance. We get a bill of sale and really hope that's enough. Dad brings out a tractor from seemingly thin air (of course) and he and his two kids use that to push the car on our trailer. The previous owner very nearly loses a few fingers being careless between the car and the tractor.
As we're securing the car on the trailer, dad comes by to talk to us. "There's nothing wrong with this got-damned car. My son is just a lazy sack of **** and won't do ****. It's all simple and it's nearly complete. You gotta take this hose and stick it in there. But it's too short, so you gotta get a new one. These two hoses are swapped. Swap 'em back. Hook this up, change that and fix this thing over here, and it'll run just fine." Well, ok then. Let's get this thing out of here before anyone can change their mind.
It is three AM by the time we get home and get the car off the trailer. Car rolls easy enough that one person can push it around on the street. Brakes are firm, but even with the engine off and no power assist, they work well. All the lights work. WTF.
Friday I headed to the DMV. Come to find out, lost titles are fairly common here in Texas. The lady laughed at my story, handed me a bunch of paperwork to fill out, charged me no money, and gave me a bunch of paperwork in return. The car is not stolen. No liens. From the paperwork, it appears they were telling the truth. It originally belonged to someone on the other side of Houston who appears to have done all the work. He sold it, that guy never transferred the title because race car. It traded hands in the family until the son ended up with it. We have to pay $100 to get a bonded title, fill out some paperwork, and we will be the full legal owners. We can also buy an antique plate for this car (over 25 years old) and it won't even need an inspection to be driven on the road. That will likely be Monday or Tuesday.
We have not done any work on it yet. I've not seen it in the light of day. We haven't started it since it went on the trailer. We compiled a short list of obvious items that need to be addressed, but it's only 50 or so mostly minor items. Tomorrow starts the first of the work.
As to why I bought a $500 car with another guy, it's mainly because I know how much it costs to build a Lemons/Chumpcar. I've seen too many built, even though it's a $500 car, it'll cost you several thousand by the time you're done. Splitting that cost is nice.
I'll keep updating the thread as we build the car. I need as much documentation as I can get and this will help me keep it organized. Feel free to ask any questions. I'm sure Schatten will be along sometime tomorrow to explain his side of things and how I got it totally wrong.
Code:
Money Spent (total): $739.84
Car Purchase: $500.00
Title Bond to get plates: $100.00
Air filter stud and wingnut: $2.34
CV joint rebuild kits: $52.50
Final title paperwork: $85.00
Money Spent (non-exempt): $554.84
Car Purchase: $500.00
Air filter stud and wingnut: $2.34
CV joint rebuild kits: $52.50
Non-exempt budget remaining: $0.00
11-20-2012, 06:50 PM
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Didn't fit in the story, but when I told redneck dad what we were doing, he says, "yeah, they put a bull**** cheapie nitro cam in that thing. You're going to want a 'roundy-round' cam."
I have no idea about cams (or carbs, for that matter), but it seems I'm going to have to learn. Anyone have any idea what any of this means? How bull**** is this cam, anyway? While I know we're going to sell off the Hoosiers to fund the fixes, I suspect we won't be able to sell this and won't have the funds to replace it. How screwed are we?
[edit]
This turns out to be a pretty crummy cam. We are going to try to replace it, if we can fit it in the budget. There's a few things we can sell to get $500 back into the budget, but we'll have to be careful. $500 doesn't go far.
I have no idea about cams (or carbs, for that matter), but it seems I'm going to have to learn. Anyone have any idea what any of this means? How bull**** is this cam, anyway? While I know we're going to sell off the Hoosiers to fund the fixes, I suspect we won't be able to sell this and won't have the funds to replace it. How screwed are we?
[edit]
This turns out to be a pretty crummy cam. We are going to try to replace it, if we can fit it in the budget. There's a few things we can sell to get $500 back into the budget, but we'll have to be careful. $500 doesn't go far.
11-20-2012, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by eBay
This is a 1968 327 Motor, it had about 5000 original miles when it was rebuilt, 2 years ago, the motor came out of a vehicle that wa..... after purchase, the only thing worth saving was the motor, and it sat in a garage covered up and was forgotten, it was also going into a s.... truck, eventually it was decided that a 454 would really work better.
It has Mallory ignition system, chrome billet components, original exhaust manifolds, and a weber 650 or 750 carb. The intake manifold..... well as the time chain cover, the motor is turned occationally to keep oil in the enine and to keep components turning free.
It has Mallory ignition system, chrome billet components, original exhaust manifolds, and a weber 650 or 750 carb. The intake manifold..... well as the time chain cover, the motor is turned occationally to keep oil in the enine and to keep components turning free.
Holy ****, this is the first time I've noticed the motor was purchased on April Fool's Day. Good God.
I will say from the little running the motor has done in my presence, it has an extremely lopey idle. Concur that at some point we'll need to find out just what is inside. Right now, it's a mystery box. I'll try to take some photos of it tomorrow, but I know that doesn't mean **** because this appears to be a custom built motor.
The car won't go out on track for some time. It's not safe or track worthy as is. Probably 75% of our list specifically involves punch items that must be done before we drive the car anywhere not around the block.
This isn't my first Lemons rodeo. Schatten and I have been doing Lemons since the original races out at Altamont.
One of the reasons I like this car so much is that the unreliable Porsche V8 is gone. Doesn't get much more reliable than a SBC ... but I do fear the motor has been overbuilt. If the idea was that it only had to stay together for 10 seconds, then a full race might be asking too much.
All of your items are on the list of things to do, including replacing the cam. How much we get to do is entirely dependent on how much we can get for the few things we can sell off out of the car. For instance, we don't need the drag radials and we can't use the 5 gallon fuel cell. There's also some tools that came with the car that are specific to repairing Dana 44s and I don't think we need those either.
The entire point of getting the antique plate is so that the car can be driven on public streets and we can do more shakedown testing than just showing up on race day. We've found the following things to be true for successful Lemons teams:
- Stay out on track
- Don't switch out drivers every 10 minutes (stay out on track)
- Have a pit strategy (stay out on track)
- Have a reliable car (stay out on track)
- Turn fast laps, but never so fast that you're putting the car in danger or stressing the mechanicals (stay out on track)
The transaxle and torque tube are still there. I was worried we'd find a live rear axle back there, but no, the chassis is all Porsche. Whoever built this car was mostly doing it right.
I'm just happy that Texas makes it so easy to drive something like this on the street. Ordinarily, cars have to go through a pretty decent inspection that this car could never pass. However, if your car is more than 25 years old and you promise to only drive it to exhibitions, functions, parades, or the mechanic, it doesn't have to meet any standards of safety or excellence. The plate is also stupid cheap too.
We're trying our best to get it ready for Cars and Coffee, but I don't think we can get the clutch sorted in time. It should have plates by tomorrow.
Yes, we have a GoPro. And a ChaseCam.
Deal of the year for sure. I'm still kind of shocked by it all. I think this was an object lesson to the son and I basically stole the car. Growing up redneck, I can verify that this is exactly the kind of **** redneck dads would pull.
The first thing I did when I got home though was verify with my friends that are Lemons judges. So far the word is a non-sarcastic, "yup, that looks like a $500 car." I'm worried about getting it in under Chump rules though. Everyone lists them for much more, then caves when no one calls except the one guy who arrives with $500 cash in hand.
"Just get it out of my yard before I change my mind."
11-20-2012, 06:54 PM
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Sorry. Wall of text. This was a LONG thread on the other forum, which requires a paid membership to read.
Good to know. I always thought it was strange that the LSx series liked to rev so much. I was always under the impression that you just couldn't spin pushrods like that.
So, keep in mind the cam came along much later. It wasn't a product of the guy who built the motor, the guy who sold the motor, or the guy who put the motor in the car.
I contacted the original eBay seller. He remembered the motor, but couldn't give me any more information on it because he didn't build it. He just ripped it out of another car and didn't elaborate.
There's a receipt for the cam from one of the family members, so they're the ones who put that bull**** in there. Who knows what kind of cam it had before, but there's plenty of Edlebrock branded **** on that motor and lots of what appear to be shiny and expensive polished aluminum parts. This could have been an expensive motor. It could be a bull**** motor.
I'll get some good photos of the motor this afternoon. Maybe that'll kickstart my quest of exactly what I've got here.
Hmmm. ****. I'll add "cam kit" and "lifters" to the list of parts to buy. I hope we can find room in the budget, because I really don't want to grenade another motor.
Anyone know how to figure out what the compression ratio is? I'm assuming I'll have to run a compression check, find out the PSI, and then ... what?
Maybe we just take the hit and run Chump for fun. I know the value is right, but I can't figure out how to get an AIV that shows it. Hell, I don't know how others do it, because I'll be damned if I can find a Fox body Mustang, a Miata, or an E30 listed for $500 that isn't a damned basketcase. But those cars proliferate over there and I know, like the 928, on the right day and the right circumstances, they can be picked up for next to nothing.
No problem. This thread should cover items like these.
The most obvious problem is that you have no proof the guy selling you the car is the legitimate owner. Maybe the car is stolen. Maybe he has no legal right to sell the car. Either way, somewhere out there is a title that you don't possess and could enable someone to attempt to legally take possession of your car. Worst case scenario, you're out the money you spent and cooling your heels in jail for possession of stolen property.
In Texas, where I live, it's technically illegal to sell a car without a title but it's not illegal to buy a car without a title.
If you decide to buy a car without a title, I highly advise you check your local laws. I figured I'd sort it out one way or the other and didn't do my homework. I am lucky I live in Texas, where title mis-ownership isn't frowned upon. My reading leads me to believe that in some states it is damn near impossible to claim ownership to a car without a title.
I was very fortunate that this car was previously (and last) titled right here in Texas. It's a gray market car with a Euro VIN, so proving that it was even allowed in the country could have been difficult. There's also a lot of bull**** associated if the car is titled out of state.
I was worried when I went down to the DMV. I thought maybe they wouldn't believe me and I was pretty sure I'd purchased a stolen car. I even texted my girlfriend as I walked in the doors, "At DMV trying to see what to do about this title. If I don't message you back in an hour, start looking for me." The lady enjoyed my story and we had a good laugh, but I was relieved to learn that this is a pretty common occurrence. So common, in fact, that I had to ask her specifically to check if the car was stolen. It wasn't. :toot:
She handed me some paperwork. I filled it out. She put the information in the computer which then spit out my needed "rejection letter". Since it isn't November yet, this didn't cost me anything. Basically, what I did here was apply for a brand new title on the car and I was rejected because there's currently a valid title that I do not possess.
After that, you take your rejection letter to a bonding company and get a bond equal to the value of the car plus 50%. The minimum valuation of the car by law is $4,000 so we had to get a bond for $6,000. Schatten took care of this today and it cost $100. Basically, we bought insurance in case someone ever contests ownership. If a title holder surfaces in the next year or so, he gets the amount of the bond and we keep the property. If he doesn't, we keep the property and bonding company keeps our money.
Tomorrow we have to take that bond and the rejection letter to the tax office. At that point, they'll cut us a brand new title. $10 and they'll give us our Antique Plates on the spot.
All in all, not too bad, though there was certainly a little risk involved. Had the title process been more difficult, I would have tried getting a mechanic's lien for towing and storage and contesting ownership that way.
RPMs, RPMs, RPMs. The SBC is simple and stout, and you only run into real problems with longevity if you're trying to spin it harder than the engine can take. Remember that it's not a LS1 - it doesn't take to high RPMs quite as easily without a lot of work. You can build it to survive at 6500-7000RPMs, but when GM wanted to build a high-rev 5.0L screamer from the factory, they short-stroked the 327 to 302 rather than using the 307 or 283 they already had.
You can build it to survive at high RPMs, but the valvetrain bits for that would probably be well outside of your budget given what else this car needs. The fact that it has a $50 hydraulic flat-tappet cam makes me seriously doubt there is anything more than cheap steel pushrods and stamped non-roller rockers above it.
I contacted the original eBay seller. He remembered the motor, but couldn't give me any more information on it because he didn't build it. He just ripped it out of another car and didn't elaborate.
There's a receipt for the cam from one of the family members, so they're the ones who put that bull**** in there. Who knows what kind of cam it had before, but there's plenty of Edlebrock branded **** on that motor and lots of what appear to be shiny and expensive polished aluminum parts. This could have been an expensive motor. It could be a bull**** motor.
I'll get some good photos of the motor this afternoon. Maybe that'll kickstart my quest of exactly what I've got here.
Edit: I see absolutely no mention thus far of what heads are on the engine. I think if you just want this thing to live forever, get one of the smaller Summit 110x cams and you'll run out of power before you run into valve float. Unfortunately, if longevity is a concern you will probably want new lifters too, as flat-tappet lifters shouldn't be used with any other cam once they've been broken in.
Anyone know how to figure out what the compression ratio is? I'm assuming I'll have to run a compression check, find out the PSI, and then ... what?
Looks like Chumpcar completely changed their motor swap rules. If my first glance at this is right you may come out okay since a 1960s SBC should be able to be had for considerably cheaper than a Porsche V8. You may have to return the motor to stock, or take a AIV hit for the cam + whatever else is there.
You still need AIV though
You still need AIV though
Slight derail, but what are the implications of buying a title-less vehicle? Are you planning on insuring it at all? Any worries about a previous owner tracking you down?
I've seen vehicles advertised with no title, but the thought of owning one scares the hell out of me.
I've seen vehicles advertised with no title, but the thought of owning one scares the hell out of me.
The most obvious problem is that you have no proof the guy selling you the car is the legitimate owner. Maybe the car is stolen. Maybe he has no legal right to sell the car. Either way, somewhere out there is a title that you don't possess and could enable someone to attempt to legally take possession of your car. Worst case scenario, you're out the money you spent and cooling your heels in jail for possession of stolen property.
In Texas, where I live, it's technically illegal to sell a car without a title but it's not illegal to buy a car without a title.
If you decide to buy a car without a title, I highly advise you check your local laws. I figured I'd sort it out one way or the other and didn't do my homework. I am lucky I live in Texas, where title mis-ownership isn't frowned upon. My reading leads me to believe that in some states it is damn near impossible to claim ownership to a car without a title.
I was very fortunate that this car was previously (and last) titled right here in Texas. It's a gray market car with a Euro VIN, so proving that it was even allowed in the country could have been difficult. There's also a lot of bull**** associated if the car is titled out of state.
I was worried when I went down to the DMV. I thought maybe they wouldn't believe me and I was pretty sure I'd purchased a stolen car. I even texted my girlfriend as I walked in the doors, "At DMV trying to see what to do about this title. If I don't message you back in an hour, start looking for me." The lady enjoyed my story and we had a good laugh, but I was relieved to learn that this is a pretty common occurrence. So common, in fact, that I had to ask her specifically to check if the car was stolen. It wasn't. :toot:
She handed me some paperwork. I filled it out. She put the information in the computer which then spit out my needed "rejection letter". Since it isn't November yet, this didn't cost me anything. Basically, what I did here was apply for a brand new title on the car and I was rejected because there's currently a valid title that I do not possess.
After that, you take your rejection letter to a bonding company and get a bond equal to the value of the car plus 50%. The minimum valuation of the car by law is $4,000 so we had to get a bond for $6,000. Schatten took care of this today and it cost $100. Basically, we bought insurance in case someone ever contests ownership. If a title holder surfaces in the next year or so, he gets the amount of the bond and we keep the property. If he doesn't, we keep the property and bonding company keeps our money.
Tomorrow we have to take that bond and the rejection letter to the tax office. At that point, they'll cut us a brand new title. $10 and they'll give us our Antique Plates on the spot.
All in all, not too bad, though there was certainly a little risk involved. Had the title process been more difficult, I would have tried getting a mechanic's lien for towing and storage and contesting ownership that way.
11-20-2012, 06:55 PM
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Here's a few of my pictures from picking up the car.
http://imgur.com/a/jkSSZ
We'll have a few more after tonight.
http://imgur.com/a/jkSSZ
We'll have a few more after tonight.
11-20-2012, 06:58 PM
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As mentioned, I went and hung out with the car last night. Things did not go quite as planned, but we had fun.
First, my girlfriend was late and didn't bring me a change of clothes. So I got to "work" on the car in the same clothes I went to work in.
Second, I went looking for numbers on the engine, but couldn't find any. Anyone know where I might find them?
Third, it got dark very fast and we kind of called it off after that. So not much got done. Schatten took photos and he hasn't uploaded them, so .... maybe he'll do that later?
However, I did get to look at the car for the first time in daylight. It's rougher than I expected, especially under the hood, but there wasn't anything really glaring that I missed. There's a lot of surface rust on things under the hood like the headers and some suspension bits, which is all fairly normal for a 30 year old car but kind of unusual for us Texans to see. From photos I've seen from northern cars, I think you would all consider this "business as usual", even for cars a year or two old.
I grabbed a few bits of trash out of the car, but then we decided to move it. The car been sitting on the street, untitled, unlicensed since we bought it. Schatten lives in a nice neighborhood, so we weren't worried about people ****ing with it, but the city towing it was a definite concern.
So we cleaned some space out of the garage and thought and schemed about how to get the car up the driveway, which is steep enough that the front end drags on it. Pushing by hand was out of the question. Pushing by car was also out of the question -- our cars are all sports cars. Didn't have anything in the garage we could tie off on and winch it up that way. A few other solutions were proposed before we went with an early solution we didn't like very much: unhook the distributor and use the starter to move the car.
The car rolls well, so pushing it to the driveway wasn't a problem. We did however, burn up what remained of the ****ty battery it came with trying to move the car up the driveway. I think we got about a foot and half, mainly because the frame was dragging. After pulling the battery from Schatten's S2000, we managed to move the car to it's final (for now) resting spot at the top of the driveway. We also killed that battery.
We really wanted to start the car. We'd heard it run out at the purchase site, but who knows what those rednecks did to ensure it started for us there. Could we start it again after sitting for the better part of a week? We were about to find out.
Since we'd killed the second battery, now I had to pull my daily driver up behind the 928 so we could jump it. Now, I grew up in an era with plenty of carbureted automobiles and my first two cars were carbureted. But I had totally forgotten how much of an art it could be to get one started. Choke? What's that? I think I vaguely remember that needs to be pulled out when you're trying to start a finicky carb'd car. Unfortunately, I didn't remember that at first. Did you remember you could flood a car if you give it too much gas? Or crank it too long? Like say, up a hill? I did, but I forgot how easy it was to do. Give it enough gas, but not too much. Feather the throttle as it's trying to start, but again, not too much or too little. Keep cranking as it's trying to start or you'll have to start all over again. ****.
Anyway, here's the video I ended up with.
This is the first run trying to start it. It's got kind of a cool effect going on with the jumper car headlights and the smoke coming out of the pipes. Oh, did I mention it has side pipes? Because it totally does.
I tried a few more times with no success and terrible video to show for it. Then, while no one was looking I got back in the car and decided to just give it another shot. Why not? It surely wasn't going to crank this time. Of course, because no one's looking and no one's filming, it does. It was every bit as loud as I remembered it. We had asked Schatten's roommate earlier if he could hear us trying to start the car and he said "no". Somewhere on this video, he walked outside and said, "yeah, I heard that."
First, my girlfriend was late and didn't bring me a change of clothes. So I got to "work" on the car in the same clothes I went to work in.
Second, I went looking for numbers on the engine, but couldn't find any. Anyone know where I might find them?
Third, it got dark very fast and we kind of called it off after that. So not much got done. Schatten took photos and he hasn't uploaded them, so .... maybe he'll do that later?
However, I did get to look at the car for the first time in daylight. It's rougher than I expected, especially under the hood, but there wasn't anything really glaring that I missed. There's a lot of surface rust on things under the hood like the headers and some suspension bits, which is all fairly normal for a 30 year old car but kind of unusual for us Texans to see. From photos I've seen from northern cars, I think you would all consider this "business as usual", even for cars a year or two old.
I grabbed a few bits of trash out of the car, but then we decided to move it. The car been sitting on the street, untitled, unlicensed since we bought it. Schatten lives in a nice neighborhood, so we weren't worried about people ****ing with it, but the city towing it was a definite concern.
So we cleaned some space out of the garage and thought and schemed about how to get the car up the driveway, which is steep enough that the front end drags on it. Pushing by hand was out of the question. Pushing by car was also out of the question -- our cars are all sports cars. Didn't have anything in the garage we could tie off on and winch it up that way. A few other solutions were proposed before we went with an early solution we didn't like very much: unhook the distributor and use the starter to move the car.
The car rolls well, so pushing it to the driveway wasn't a problem. We did however, burn up what remained of the ****ty battery it came with trying to move the car up the driveway. I think we got about a foot and half, mainly because the frame was dragging. After pulling the battery from Schatten's S2000, we managed to move the car to it's final (for now) resting spot at the top of the driveway. We also killed that battery.
We really wanted to start the car. We'd heard it run out at the purchase site, but who knows what those rednecks did to ensure it started for us there. Could we start it again after sitting for the better part of a week? We were about to find out.
Since we'd killed the second battery, now I had to pull my daily driver up behind the 928 so we could jump it. Now, I grew up in an era with plenty of carbureted automobiles and my first two cars were carbureted. But I had totally forgotten how much of an art it could be to get one started. Choke? What's that? I think I vaguely remember that needs to be pulled out when you're trying to start a finicky carb'd car. Unfortunately, I didn't remember that at first. Did you remember you could flood a car if you give it too much gas? Or crank it too long? Like say, up a hill? I did, but I forgot how easy it was to do. Give it enough gas, but not too much. Feather the throttle as it's trying to start, but again, not too much or too little. Keep cranking as it's trying to start or you'll have to start all over again. ****.
Anyway, here's the video I ended up with.
This is the first run trying to start it. It's got kind of a cool effect going on with the jumper car headlights and the smoke coming out of the pipes. Oh, did I mention it has side pipes? Because it totally does.
I tried a few more times with no success and terrible video to show for it. Then, while no one was looking I got back in the car and decided to just give it another shot. Why not? It surely wasn't going to crank this time. Of course, because no one's looking and no one's filming, it does. It was every bit as loud as I remembered it. We had asked Schatten's roommate earlier if he could hear us trying to start the car and he said "no". Somewhere on this video, he walked outside and said, "yeah, I heard that."
11-20-2012, 07:01 PM
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Went and worked on the car this afternoon. Schatten was gone, so even though the car is currently at his house, it was just me spending some quality time getting to know what I'm getting into. Never in my life have I uttered the words "****ing rednecks" so many times in just a few hours.
I took photos when I could and when I thought of it. Sometimes I didn't. I'm certainly not going to edit these or make them look nice in any way.
First things first, I cleaned out the car. Lots of odds and ends and bolts and tools. Lots of things I couldn't immediately identify. Most of it went in a garbage bag which was going to be thrown away, but at least two useful parts came out of that bag today and there's a couple of things that might be worth something, so it's going to stay for a while.
What a wonderful photo of this tool! The tool is out of focus, but you can see the 928 bumper nicely. I was later told this is a honing tool. So I guess that's what it is.
No idea. I've seen a photo of this in the paperwork left in the car. It seems to be related to an auction for 928 gearsets.
Some sort of Edelbrock something or other. I'm told it's a mechanical fuel pump. Heavy.
Nothing else was worth taking photos of, it was mostly bolts and screws and a really crappy air filter. And a plastic cylinder I found out the use of later. The other useful part was simply a bolt.
After cleaning out all the garbage and leaves and such, I thought about grabbing the power washer, but the house was locked and I didn't have a way in at that point, so I moved on to other things.
GODDAMN REDNECKS. That's the "kill" switch for the car. It was lost in the back bumper (you can see the cutout and two screws that hold it in. I think you can see the problem with it in about three seconds.
I spent way too much time relocating this back to its "rightful spot in the bumper. After getting it in place, I realized that it would only take a few love taps on the rear bumper to break that thing right off and I de-relocated it back to where it was. Eventually, I'll disconnect it and move it to a much better location. But not today.
There were two CV boots in the car and the (goddamn) rednecks told me the CV boots needed to be replaced. So, might as well take a look. You can also see the parking brake cables hanging down and creating a mess here. I'll clean that up later, so this is your before picture.
Some look ok.... others, not so much.
That's the outboard driver's side boot. It's completely torn and leaking. On the plus side, this car really hasn't been driven, so that's good. In these photos, notice the coilovers spun all the way up. It's also putting the CV joints in some pretty severe angles, which I suspect contributed to the torn boots. I'm seriously thinking that before this car moves any appreciable distance, the drag radials need to come off, the suspension lowered, and all the CV boots inspected closely and replaced as needed.
While I was under there, I noticed this. That's a drain valve for the fuel cell. I think that's a good idea, but it still feels pretty redneck. I'm not sure it would pass safety inspection either. Oh well, the fuel cell has to come out and be replaced anyway. Five gallons won't go far.
While I was back there, I unscrewed the plastic gas cap for the fuel cell for the first time. Found that someone along the way had cross threaded it. More than once. So we need a new gas cap. ****ing rednecks. Fuel cell looks good inside and out though, so hopefully we can get some money for it when we sell it.
This was next to the fuel cell. I don't think it's factory. What's under there, you might ask?
Fuel pump and other fuel related business. Again, ****ing rednecks. Left wondering if it's good enough, or if we'll have to redo it all. Probably the latter. At least it's all safety related.
Just kind of funny, someone colored the "PORSCHE" lettering in with a sharpie. Half-assed, anyway. ****ing rednecks.
Walked around to the front and that's when I spotted this for the first time. I nearly fell over laughing. I guess you have to have priorities and when you're a ****ing redneck, a smoke is never more than a few feet away. Yes, it's hooked up. I suppose it'll be a good 12V outlet.
Battery. Wrong size, not strapped down (because it's the wrong size), and there's some terrible corrosion going on there. I pulled it, intending to clean it but didn't get around to that. I should probably replace it, because it'll have to be replaced anyway. Need to order that strap from Pelican Parts.
This is when I finally set down and got to work. The brake lines were a mess. But all the pieces were there. Bent and twisted, but there. In an ideal world, I'd just buy all new cables and fix it right, but this isn't an ideal world and it's just a parking brake. I bent the bent pieces back into shape, figured out how everything went together and bolted it all up. I still need a really small clip (part number N0126452) to complete the job right. I reused the original one, but it's weakened and has to be replaced eventually. It's a tiny clip, probably worth all of $0.02, but it's a Porsche part so it'll probably cost me $5.
All buttoned up and pretty. The brake works better than ever before, which isn't surprising considering only one side was working previously. Looking now, it becomes even more evident how insane that ride height is.
I redirected my work inside again. This time to a steering wheel that was a little wobbly. The nut that secures the wheel to the hub was loose, but to tighten it would require the world's deepest socket. Which I don't own. That's when we noticed a hole and some threads. One of the bolts from the bag just happened to fit in the hole and that allowed us to use a conventional socket to tighten everything down properly. The wheel is now secure.
I played with the power windows a little, one makes noise and moves gears, the other doesn't. Neither will roll the windows down. After watching a little, I realized I didn't have the proper tools or knowledge to fix it. Time to move on.
I went ahead and tackled the air filter. It didn't really fit on the carburetor and the bolt used to secure it wasn't long enough. Now, I'll be the first to admit, I know ****-all about carburetors. This is probably common knowledge to everyone but me, but the filter is basically a sandwich consisting of two metal discs and the filter in between. All that sits on top of the carburator. One problem, my bottom plate didn't clear the throttle cable. Suddenly, I realized what the plastic cylinder was for -- it's a spacer to give the bottom plate enough space to clear the carb mechanicals.
Sure enough, that's exactly what it was. With that, everything assembled fine, but the bolt that was too short before was way too short now. Plus, what I really needed was not a bolt, but a threaded rod and a wingnut. Off to the store.
Home Depot? Any port in a storm. It was 5pm on a Sunday and they were open. Spent $2.34.
That looks a little strange, but that was as short as they sold the stud. A little hacksaw work and it looked a lot better. Forgot to take a picture. That's three tasks completed today. Minor, but all on the 50-something bullet list to be ready to race.
928 Spoilers make for good workbenches. Who knew? ****ing redn.... oh, wait. That's me.
I thought I was done for the day, then I remembered there was a little extra work I could do. A matter regarding head numbers and block numbers. So I pulled a valve cover.
There's your numbers right there. By my reckoning, that's 3927185. Haven't found anything about that yet. Here's a few other photos, in case any of this is important too.
Went looking for the block number.
Ha. Hardy-****in-har. Good luck getting a number off that pad. The paint has really soaked in and made the numbers illegible. I'm going to bring some paint thinner next time and see if I can't remove some of it.
Some other numbers I found, this is on the carburator. 1405 and 0229
Last, before I left for the day, I did some looking at the clutch. As I said, it won't disengage. Mainly because nothing has ever been hooked up. If you push the clutch in, there's no hydraulic pressure or fluid. Now, this seems odd to me since the Porsche clutch is a slave cylinder, but there's fluid in the main reservoir and the brakes seem to work fine. I was told there is a line that needs to be hooked up. I think they said it's too short. They also said two lines are switched.
Now, here's what I saw.
Looking back to the firewall. Dipstick on the left side of frame. You can see the master cylinder on the right and the booster behind it. The long tube coming down is the steering column. On the left, you can see the hose that isn't hooked up. It runs to the "transmission" and disappears down in there. I put that in quotes because the transmission is a transaxle in the rear. This really just runs to the bellhousing that has the Chevy clutch in it. Just to the right of that, there's a hard line that has nothing attached. It looks like I could just attach these two lines ... but the guy said something about that line not reaching. It couldn't be that easy, could it?
A better look at the two lines. I didn't see the "two lines" that need to be swapped that he was referring to. I went home immediately after this. We'll do battle another day.
Here's some more images of paperwork in the binder. I'm sad the hood scoop got returned.
Also a pretty spectacular weekend. I sat in this (MP4-12C), met these guys (Rodney Mullen and Lance Mountain), and got a lengthy tour of this place (Circuit of the Americas).
I took photos when I could and when I thought of it. Sometimes I didn't. I'm certainly not going to edit these or make them look nice in any way.
First things first, I cleaned out the car. Lots of odds and ends and bolts and tools. Lots of things I couldn't immediately identify. Most of it went in a garbage bag which was going to be thrown away, but at least two useful parts came out of that bag today and there's a couple of things that might be worth something, so it's going to stay for a while.
What a wonderful photo of this tool! The tool is out of focus, but you can see the 928 bumper nicely. I was later told this is a honing tool. So I guess that's what it is.
No idea. I've seen a photo of this in the paperwork left in the car. It seems to be related to an auction for 928 gearsets.
Some sort of Edelbrock something or other. I'm told it's a mechanical fuel pump. Heavy.
Nothing else was worth taking photos of, it was mostly bolts and screws and a really crappy air filter. And a plastic cylinder I found out the use of later. The other useful part was simply a bolt.
After cleaning out all the garbage and leaves and such, I thought about grabbing the power washer, but the house was locked and I didn't have a way in at that point, so I moved on to other things.
GODDAMN REDNECKS. That's the "kill" switch for the car. It was lost in the back bumper (you can see the cutout and two screws that hold it in. I think you can see the problem with it in about three seconds.
Spoiler
There were two CV boots in the car and the (goddamn) rednecks told me the CV boots needed to be replaced. So, might as well take a look. You can also see the parking brake cables hanging down and creating a mess here. I'll clean that up later, so this is your before picture.
Some look ok.... others, not so much.
That's the outboard driver's side boot. It's completely torn and leaking. On the plus side, this car really hasn't been driven, so that's good. In these photos, notice the coilovers spun all the way up. It's also putting the CV joints in some pretty severe angles, which I suspect contributed to the torn boots. I'm seriously thinking that before this car moves any appreciable distance, the drag radials need to come off, the suspension lowered, and all the CV boots inspected closely and replaced as needed.
While I was under there, I noticed this. That's a drain valve for the fuel cell. I think that's a good idea, but it still feels pretty redneck. I'm not sure it would pass safety inspection either. Oh well, the fuel cell has to come out and be replaced anyway. Five gallons won't go far.
While I was back there, I unscrewed the plastic gas cap for the fuel cell for the first time. Found that someone along the way had cross threaded it. More than once. So we need a new gas cap. ****ing rednecks. Fuel cell looks good inside and out though, so hopefully we can get some money for it when we sell it.
This was next to the fuel cell. I don't think it's factory. What's under there, you might ask?
Fuel pump and other fuel related business. Again, ****ing rednecks. Left wondering if it's good enough, or if we'll have to redo it all. Probably the latter. At least it's all safety related.
Just kind of funny, someone colored the "PORSCHE" lettering in with a sharpie. Half-assed, anyway. ****ing rednecks.
Walked around to the front and that's when I spotted this for the first time. I nearly fell over laughing. I guess you have to have priorities and when you're a ****ing redneck, a smoke is never more than a few feet away. Yes, it's hooked up. I suppose it'll be a good 12V outlet.
Battery. Wrong size, not strapped down (because it's the wrong size), and there's some terrible corrosion going on there. I pulled it, intending to clean it but didn't get around to that. I should probably replace it, because it'll have to be replaced anyway. Need to order that strap from Pelican Parts.
This is when I finally set down and got to work. The brake lines were a mess. But all the pieces were there. Bent and twisted, but there. In an ideal world, I'd just buy all new cables and fix it right, but this isn't an ideal world and it's just a parking brake. I bent the bent pieces back into shape, figured out how everything went together and bolted it all up. I still need a really small clip (part number N0126452) to complete the job right. I reused the original one, but it's weakened and has to be replaced eventually. It's a tiny clip, probably worth all of $0.02, but it's a Porsche part so it'll probably cost me $5.
All buttoned up and pretty. The brake works better than ever before, which isn't surprising considering only one side was working previously. Looking now, it becomes even more evident how insane that ride height is.
I redirected my work inside again. This time to a steering wheel that was a little wobbly. The nut that secures the wheel to the hub was loose, but to tighten it would require the world's deepest socket. Which I don't own. That's when we noticed a hole and some threads. One of the bolts from the bag just happened to fit in the hole and that allowed us to use a conventional socket to tighten everything down properly. The wheel is now secure.
I played with the power windows a little, one makes noise and moves gears, the other doesn't. Neither will roll the windows down. After watching a little, I realized I didn't have the proper tools or knowledge to fix it. Time to move on.
I went ahead and tackled the air filter. It didn't really fit on the carburetor and the bolt used to secure it wasn't long enough. Now, I'll be the first to admit, I know ****-all about carburetors. This is probably common knowledge to everyone but me, but the filter is basically a sandwich consisting of two metal discs and the filter in between. All that sits on top of the carburator. One problem, my bottom plate didn't clear the throttle cable. Suddenly, I realized what the plastic cylinder was for -- it's a spacer to give the bottom plate enough space to clear the carb mechanicals.
Sure enough, that's exactly what it was. With that, everything assembled fine, but the bolt that was too short before was way too short now. Plus, what I really needed was not a bolt, but a threaded rod and a wingnut. Off to the store.
Home Depot? Any port in a storm. It was 5pm on a Sunday and they were open. Spent $2.34.
That looks a little strange, but that was as short as they sold the stud. A little hacksaw work and it looked a lot better. Forgot to take a picture. That's three tasks completed today. Minor, but all on the 50-something bullet list to be ready to race.
928 Spoilers make for good workbenches. Who knew? ****ing redn.... oh, wait. That's me.
I thought I was done for the day, then I remembered there was a little extra work I could do. A matter regarding head numbers and block numbers. So I pulled a valve cover.
There's your numbers right there. By my reckoning, that's 3927185. Haven't found anything about that yet. Here's a few other photos, in case any of this is important too.
Went looking for the block number.
Ha. Hardy-****in-har. Good luck getting a number off that pad. The paint has really soaked in and made the numbers illegible. I'm going to bring some paint thinner next time and see if I can't remove some of it.
Some other numbers I found, this is on the carburator. 1405 and 0229
Last, before I left for the day, I did some looking at the clutch. As I said, it won't disengage. Mainly because nothing has ever been hooked up. If you push the clutch in, there's no hydraulic pressure or fluid. Now, this seems odd to me since the Porsche clutch is a slave cylinder, but there's fluid in the main reservoir and the brakes seem to work fine. I was told there is a line that needs to be hooked up. I think they said it's too short. They also said two lines are switched.
Now, here's what I saw.
Looking back to the firewall. Dipstick on the left side of frame. You can see the master cylinder on the right and the booster behind it. The long tube coming down is the steering column. On the left, you can see the hose that isn't hooked up. It runs to the "transmission" and disappears down in there. I put that in quotes because the transmission is a transaxle in the rear. This really just runs to the bellhousing that has the Chevy clutch in it. Just to the right of that, there's a hard line that has nothing attached. It looks like I could just attach these two lines ... but the guy said something about that line not reaching. It couldn't be that easy, could it?
A better look at the two lines. I didn't see the "two lines" that need to be swapped that he was referring to. I went home immediately after this. We'll do battle another day.
Here's some more images of paperwork in the binder. I'm sad the hood scoop got returned.
Also a pretty spectacular weekend. I sat in this (MP4-12C), met these guys (Rodney Mullen and Lance Mountain), and got a lengthy tour of this place (Circuit of the Americas).
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11-20-2012, 07:04 PM
#8
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Seeing that I found an eBay auction for a new clutch cylinder in the paperwork -- I assume that's what it is, the description isn't good but the photo matches -- I think the cylinder got replaced and then ... work stalled.
[edit]
Looked at the paperwork again. We have page 3 of 3 and no others of an auction for a clutch master cylinder. The photo matches the object I found, but not exactly. The one I found is old and worn while the one in the photo shows a brand new or completely refurbished part in a box. Considering that paperwork in the binder is almost universally parts that were actually purchased, I think it was replaced but the work not completed for some odd reason.
As of now, the car is titled and plated and street legal. It's officially ours. It seems weird to have an Antique Plate, but it means that the car doesn't need all the normal stuff a car would ordinarily require to be driven on public roads. In return, we're not supposed to drive it much. There's a very small list of approved places we can drive it to, primarily car shows, mechanic shops, and other places where the car will either be viewed or worked on.
In reality, it gives us a lot of wiggle room if we're ever stopped, but we've heard from other owners that we won't be so long as we're not driving like jackasses or using it every day.
Went and looked at the car this afternoon, hoping to get a good look at the clutch lines and master cylinder before it got dark.
Here's what I saw (no pictures, sorry, time was short).
I found the clutch master (slave?) cylinder. It appears to be new, or at least newer than the one I found loose in the car. Followed it through the firewall, and it appears that there is a line that goes from the reservoir (in front of the booster and on top of the brake master cylinder) down to somewhere near the clutch master cylinder. I can't actually see the attachment point, but I can't imagine what else it attaches to. The front of the clutch master cylinder has a hard line that extends off of it -- I can see this one.
Now, here's where it gets weird. I found two lines free down near the termination of the master cylinder hard line. One is just a little too short. It should be about three inches longer to attach to the free attachment point at the end of the hard line. This line is also capped. The other is considerably longer. It is not capped.
Both lines extend down toward the bell housing and disappear into a small rectangular slot.
Why two lines? I assume one of these is the clutch hydraulic line, but then what's the other? One is too short, how do I replace it? I can't reach into the slot more than about an inch or two before my fingers are too fat to explore any further. What do I do with the other line? Could I just get an "extension" to attach the line that's too short?
Last, this seems to settle the question about the line that was too short that redneck dad referred to. I think the two swapped lines he was talking about were the reservoir line and the hard line, but those seem to be right, so maybe he was wrong on that.
Speaking with a friend who runs a transmission shop, it appears one line would be the one that's actually used and the other is a bleed line. Which is which? Dunno.
I think the idea now is to get a four inch extension to mate the two, though I'm tempted to just bend the hard line over there to meet it. What could possibly go wrong?
New expenses. Four Porsche rebuild kits for CV joints: $52.50 Final title paperwork: $85 (approximately).
[edit]
This is not my motor, but see, two lines:
This is what's inside.
But I did stop by the car again tonight. Learned a few things.
Some wanted to know what the other hose and bolt looked like. Here you go.
Thinking on it, I this seemed a lot older and in greater disrepair, which lead me to believe it was original. The conversion would require a custom hose to connect the Chevy slave cylinder and the Porsche master cylinder. I also wondered why the conversion hose would have been short. So I thought I'd just connect the longer one to the master cylinder. Unfortunately, I didn't have any tools with me and Schatten hadn't made it home yet. Hand fitting and hand tightening was successful enough to show that it could work but not successful enough to do anything but cross thread it.
So I continued to investigate. Retraced all the lines. Along the way I found this priceless bit of redneck engineering on the fluid reservoir. GODDAMN REDNECKS! WHYWHYWHYWHYWHY
I realize that I can't see where that hose actually connects to the slave cylinder and that I'm assuming it's hooked up because it goes roughly to the right spot. This will possibly become important later. I do realize that I can see the line that connects to the end of the master cylinder. Everything seems to be hooked up right. It can't be this easy can it? I do however think that the redneck family had no idea what was wrong or needed to be done.
Whatever, Schatten made it home. That meant tools. I grabbed a few metric wrenches and confirmed my suspicions -- the end of that hose is 15mm which means it's built for something that didn't originally come with a SBC. Cool.
I had trouble getting the wrenches on the hoses and holding the lights, so Schatten tried while I tended to light duty. And he got it right on the first try!
Something strange to notice is that there's some fraying on that cable. I originally thought it had to do with it rubbing on the steering column, but now I wonder if it didn't rub against the body down there. It looks like it's just the rubber coating, but it could go further. I hope not, but I'm thinking this might explain some of the mystery here. I think the car was complete and useable not so long ago.
We threw some fluid in the reservoir, and not knowing what we were doing, tried pumping the pedal. No success. It still has two effective positions, all the way up and all the way to the floor. It feels firmly spring loaded between the two, literally banging with each movement. I think I need to research how to properly bleed the system and check that other hose to the master cylinder. No leaks on the hose, but then again, it never pumped fluid out of the reservoir. Oh well, another day.
We did some number searching with the little remaining time we had. IOC, I hate to tell you that head number definitely ends in a five. I wanted to believe differently and tried to even say it was a closed loop on the bottom, but there's no way to deny it's a right angle in the top left. The number is 3927185 and basically a mediocre head. *sigh*
Went to work on the block. I still didn't have any paint thinner, but there was an open bottle of brake fluid. A few minutes later, the paint was nice and soft and went to scraping.
That's T1108DC. I eventually scraped the whole stamping block, but oddly, there's no VIN stamped anywhere, so this probably came as a crate motor or raw block and not from a production automobile. Using this site, I know now this motor was built at the Tonawanda plant (T) on November 08 (11 08), 1969 (DC). The DC code also tells me this was originally a 307 block that made 200 horsepower and was meant to mate up to a Powerglide transmission. It would have come in a 1970 F, X, or A-body. How much power it makes now or if it's actually a 327 or 307 is anyone's guess.
And that's it for tonight. If I get over there Sunday, I think the idea is to try bleeding the clutch again. If that doesn't seem to be working, I'll probably redo the CV joints. On the side, I'll probably tackle cleaning up the corrosion on the battery, charging it, and dropping it back in along with reattaching the factory rear view mirror. I doubt there's any way I'll complete all that in one day, but if I can get the CV joints done and the clutch working, the car is theoretically drivable and street legal. Theoretically.
That's where we sit today. With the long weekend, we're hoping to get a few things accomplished -- clutch, CV joints, mufflers. Maybe we'll lower the coilovers and put some reasonable tires on there. Who knows? Stay tuned...
11-20-2012, 07:06 PM
#9
Race Director
wow.....mountain of work.......there already is an SBC lemons 928.....my 1st 928 lemon.....long story short the guy I sold it too cut out the entire firewall and central tunnel to mount the engine REALLY far back.... It was at the last race at Thunderhill....it had lots of overheating issues.....
11-20-2012, 07:06 PM
#10
This looks like it is going to be a fun time to watch. Keep us updated.
11-20-2012, 08:27 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
bro, you could easily sell that kit for what you paid for the car. If it ha the renegade upgraded radiator and all the other custom fixens, the kit is desirable to a few crazy people. I happen to be one of them. If you want to go back to porsche, I would be willing to liberate that kit from you. 
in fact, I have a good running 928 motor you can put in it.
in fact, I have a good running 928 motor you can put in it.