Sharktuning issue..
11-22-2012, 10:45 PM
#47
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Bought the cheap one at Target. This one has the plastic shroud and it was easy to cut away. I then took my snips and cut the blades to the correct diameter so it would sit in the recessed lip of the MAF where the mesh goes. I oriented it so the sharp edge of the blade faced the air flow.
I did the same with the other one at the exit of the bend, except i secured that one in place.
I think the one with the biggest influence on air flow is the one at the exit of the bend..after passing this stator the air is probably not nearly as turbulent as it would be otherwise and i probably don't need the one on the MAF itself. Im running with them both though.
...and its the 3 inch cutter as well.
1...being cut up. You will have to take a dremel to actually get the blades free of the plastic.
2 blade out. It is a single unit...all spot welded together. The bent corners are from me trying different ways to secure it. They were eventually cut off.
3. at the exit of my 90' bend that sits in the fender. from that point its about 10" or so to the MAF wire.
4 looking inside the 90' pipe from the filters perspective.. The wire you see is one of my thermocouples for temps.
5 The blade sitting as installed on my MAF
I did the same with the other one at the exit of the bend, except i secured that one in place.
I think the one with the biggest influence on air flow is the one at the exit of the bend..after passing this stator the air is probably not nearly as turbulent as it would be otherwise and i probably don't need the one on the MAF itself. Im running with them both though.
...and its the 3 inch cutter as well.
1...being cut up. You will have to take a dremel to actually get the blades free of the plastic.
2 blade out. It is a single unit...all spot welded together. The bent corners are from me trying different ways to secure it. They were eventually cut off.
3. at the exit of my 90' bend that sits in the fender. from that point its about 10" or so to the MAF wire.
4 looking inside the 90' pipe from the filters perspective.. The wire you see is one of my thermocouples for temps.
5 The blade sitting as installed on my MAF
11-22-2012, 10:53 PM
#48
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I can see brazing that to the MAF as well...use a wet rag as a heat sink near the fancy parts.
Im flying tomorrow, and there's a Wal Mart across the street from the airport...so...might go see what they got.
Offhand whats the ID of the MAF?
Im flying tomorrow, and there's a Wal Mart across the street from the airport...so...might go see what they got.
Offhand whats the ID of the MAF?
11-22-2012, 11:00 PM
#50
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added a pic...it just sits in that lip. Brazing would be overkill..and not worth the risk of damage to the MAF
11-22-2012, 11:07 PM
#51
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Either way , but once you have it and tune it, i would probably keep it in...and vice versa with out one. I only did this as my air flow, as you can see, makes a pretty abrupt turn before the MAF and does it with out the aid of any "factory" made bell mouth like on the stock airfilter housing to make the transition. I was definitly seeing the effects of it at the mid and higher rpms...where the airflow velocity increases.
11-22-2012, 11:24 PM
#53
Looks like I'm buying a few of those and a bandsaw. Nice.
11-22-2012, 11:30 PM
#54
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Sean: Without IC, for sure. With IC, I suspect there is no solution here..because with IC im not logging an airflow turbulence issue.
Without IC, I always had a light surge..so ya, this would do most of the fix.
I would clock them a bit off each other so they straighten more airflow than clocked together.
Heck, tig some xtra fins in there..or...well, roll your own. I rather like that idea...just get my machinist to make me a ring of X size and thickness, and put in my own mesh.
Without IC, I always had a light surge..so ya, this would do most of the fix.
I would clock them a bit off each other so they straighten more airflow than clocked together.
Heck, tig some xtra fins in there..or...well, roll your own. I rather like that idea...just get my machinist to make me a ring of X size and thickness, and put in my own mesh.
11-23-2012, 09:59 AM
#56
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A resonance in the fuel rail, in other words.
The next step would be to get a scope on the fuel pressure. A conventional gauge probably won't show it, if it is a resonance effect.
But a scope and a fast electronic transducer might.
Or just reconfigure the fuel rails and see if that helps.
The next step would be to get a scope on the fuel pressure. A conventional gauge probably won't show it, if it is a resonance effect.
But a scope and a fast electronic transducer might.
Or just reconfigure the fuel rails and see if that helps.
As you rightly say to get the full benefit out of the system one has to look at what is happening in specific data runs. I like to select a specific run [I call it an extract], paste it to notepad and save it in a new session folder to access it.
I presume the problem here is that because the fuel rail is dead headed [in this application], perhaps with no fuel flow through the rail, the stock problem is exaggerated [I see this happening on my stock set up- but on a much lesser scale]. Given that all the injectors fire simulataneously I suspect the system needs bigger dampers to cope especially with bigger injectors/shorter pulses probably contributing to the problem although what proportion is contributed by what no idea. Porsche did not put the stock dampers there as garden ornaments and presumably, like anything else in engineering there is a basis for design.
Even these packs for distributing air flow into the MAF I would not have put much stock in but Tony clearly feels a benefit by the mods he did and someone has gone to the length of making a proprietary pack to do just this. To me turbulent flow is not a disadvantage it is a perfectly natural condition however strange things happen as flow transitions from laminar to turbulent flow and unless something has changed since I went to Uni this particular flow range could not be mathematically modelled with any exactitude. It would be interesting to know at what air flow the problem Tony decribes happens in our MAF's.
Very interesting thread I must say. I have enough problems trying to reason out why I am having trouble stopping pinging at high rpm's despite excellent remote support from the list, good AFR's and modest advance.
Regards
Fred
11-23-2012, 11:40 AM
#57
Nordschleife Master
FredR -- Oil being ejected into the intake at high rpms?
Visiting Finland. Stopped by at Vilhuer's (Erkka's) garage. Let's just say that there are some projects in the works that are pretty far beyond what I've seen in the US...
Visiting Finland. Stopped by at Vilhuer's (Erkka's) garage. Let's just say that there are some projects in the works that are pretty far beyond what I've seen in the US...
11-23-2012, 12:07 PM
#58
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11-24-2012, 01:34 AM
#60
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Thread Starter
Elementary my Dear Corenham!
As you rightly say to get the full benefit out of the system one has to look at what is happening in specific data runs. I like to select a specific run [I call it an extract], paste it to notepad and save it in a new session folder to access it.
I presume the problem here is that because the fuel rail is dead headed [in this application], perhaps with no fuel flow through the rail, the stock problem is exaggerated [I see this happening on my stock set up- but on a much lesser scale]. Given that all the injectors fire simulataneously I suspect the system needs bigger dampers to cope especially with bigger injectors/shorter pulses probably contributing to the problem although what proportion is contributed by what no idea. Porsche did not put the stock dampers there as garden ornaments and presumably, like anything else in engineering there is a basis for design.
Even these packs for distributing air flow into the MAF I would not have put much stock in but Tony clearly feels a benefit by the mods he did and someone has gone to the length of making a proprietary pack to do just this. To me turbulent flow is not a disadvantage it is a perfectly natural condition however strange things happen as flow transitions from laminar to turbulent flow and unless something has changed since I went to Uni this particular flow range could not be mathematically modelled with any exactitude. It would be interesting to know at what air flow the problem Tony decribes happens in our MAF's.
Very interesting thread I must say. I have enough problems trying to reason out why I am having trouble stopping pinging at high rpm's despite excellent remote support from the list, good AFR's and modest advance.
Regards
Fred
As you rightly say to get the full benefit out of the system one has to look at what is happening in specific data runs. I like to select a specific run [I call it an extract], paste it to notepad and save it in a new session folder to access it.
I presume the problem here is that because the fuel rail is dead headed [in this application], perhaps with no fuel flow through the rail, the stock problem is exaggerated [I see this happening on my stock set up- but on a much lesser scale]. Given that all the injectors fire simulataneously I suspect the system needs bigger dampers to cope especially with bigger injectors/shorter pulses probably contributing to the problem although what proportion is contributed by what no idea. Porsche did not put the stock dampers there as garden ornaments and presumably, like anything else in engineering there is a basis for design.
Even these packs for distributing air flow into the MAF I would not have put much stock in but Tony clearly feels a benefit by the mods he did and someone has gone to the length of making a proprietary pack to do just this. To me turbulent flow is not a disadvantage it is a perfectly natural condition however strange things happen as flow transitions from laminar to turbulent flow and unless something has changed since I went to Uni this particular flow range could not be mathematically modelled with any exactitude. It would be interesting to know at what air flow the problem Tony decribes happens in our MAF's.
Very interesting thread I must say. I have enough problems trying to reason out why I am having trouble stopping pinging at high rpm's despite excellent remote support from the list, good AFR's and modest advance.
Regards
Fred
Fred:
For peeps with a 90d transition right at the MAF..you pretty much need a honeycomb, that's pretty much settled MAF science there.
I run with my IC on the MAF, because it does that straightening for me.
My next steps on cleanup will be get a honeycomb for the MAF nonetheless (so I can run W/O IC as well), ceramic coat the boost pipes, fuel rails and IC, discuss my fuel damping needs with Whipple Superchargers and maybe install two of their units on the rails, finish the prototype new air filter/airbox project...and clean up wiring and the 5v source for the fuel pressure and MAP sensors, work on a better and maybe hidden Provent install.