GregBBRD

Yes. I have patterns and have made those lines up. I'll post some pictures and prices.

GregBBRD

One of my biggest compaints to the makers of hose and fittings. The companies involved in this market are "beating each other to death" making AN fittings....in a world that went metric years and years ago.

The selection of metric hose ends to fit high quality hose is pathetic.....even in Europe. The automotive manufacturers contract companies to make "custom" hoses and ends, with plastic hose over barbs being very common.

Where practical, I've made many custom fittings and adaptors and thus have a small fortune in these pieces already. Even making adaptors is sometimes a stretch, due to the quanitites that are required to make them feasible to make, in the first place. Some of these "obscure" adaptors will require years of sales, to just break even on.

By the time a custom fitting gets designed and then built, one can have over $10,000 in each version. That can make each fitting cost way over $100 each....and selling a $100 fitting for enough profit to just offset the investment isn't always feasible.....I can barely convince people to not use rubber hose on barbed fittings made for plastic line.

GregBBRD

Yeah, virtually new.

Note the "end" pieces which most everyone assumes are crimps. They are really just a covering for that rubber protective layer that is cracking. Under that rubber is plastic hose on barbed fittings. Pretty tough stuff, but probably way past its life expectancy 20+ years later.....especially on the line that connects the rear damper with the regulator.

newworld

87s4. latest on fuel lines, cannot remove the nut on passenger side front near cam, before curved plastic line. it wont budge. the small nut is a bit rounded and i used a flare nut wrench on both sides. usually bolts on fuel line have some meat on them but that small nut strips/rounds easily. possibly weakened from heat as well.

i am contemplating cutting the lines, and installing compression fittings there and avoiding that curved area altogether.

GregBBRD

I do have compression fittings that go from metric line directly to AN. Although they work very well, I'm always a bit insecure about a compression fitting and fuel. At the first chance I get, (IE head is off, engine is out, or I work to "free up that line" so I can weld on it), I will silver solder an AN fitting onto that line. I have some really super silver solder and steel male AN fittings, too!

ROG100

Greg,
I know you are trying to sell your hoses by scareing owners to death but I thought I would check and see how the barbed fittings "are" cutting into the EFI hose.
Post pictures later for comparison.

Did you overcome the leaking of the fittings on the black crimped hoses? I thought you were not going to sell that type of fitting anymore?
My bad it was the mechanical fittings that leaked.

As always - nice hoses and very well made.

Best,
Roger

GregBBRD

Roger:

I really don't care what people use. In the end, it is their car, their choice. However, like the problems associated with TBF, I think that if I can provide honest information to other 928 owners, I should do so.

People do what they want. Some people are fine running tires that are in the cord at 150mph and some people are not.....

I can't, nor do I desire, to control anything anyone else does or sells. I'm just trying to provide the very "best" pieces that I can supply....without compromises or excuses.

If people are comfortable putting rubber hose onto barbed fittings made for plastic line, against the specific recommendations of the manufacturer of that hose, that is their choice.

And no, I've not done any research into seeing what the barbs do to the inner liner of the Gates hose, nor do I plan to. I figure that if Gates (who really would like to sell as much hose as possible) specifically tells me not to do something, why would I even think about trying it? They have the engineers and have certainly done the testing to tell everyone that this is not a "recommended" thing to do. I'm certainly not qualified, nor do I have the financial means to test and tell them that they are "wrong" and tell them that "it really works fine." And beyond that, as I have mentioned, I really could never purchase enough product liability coverage to provide this hose to someone who intends to put it on barbed fittings, against Gates' recommendations, regardless of what I found out.

Therefore, for me, rubber hose installed on barbed fittings made for plastic hose, is a complete "non starter".

I have, as you are aware, suspended all sales of my original nylon braided rubber hose with the non-crimped German hose ends, until the manufacturer can tell me what the problem is (For about 6 months.) I did have 3 of these hoses leak....although all 3 had been "tightened", by the end customer, beyond the point where they were assembled, pressure tested, and shipped.

Currently, the manufacturer is telling me that I need to include directions for people to not "tighten" the ends, any further, than they were when they were assembled.

Consequently, the only hose and end fittings I'm currently supplying are the crimped hose ends with the PTFE inner liner, which have a lifetime guarantee.

Hopefully, I will be able to resolve the "problems" with the other fittings and hose, and be able to offer those more ecconomical pieces, to people that don't need or want the costs of the "lifetime PTFE hose and ends". Until then, I have reduced the prices of the "high end" Teflon hose with crimped ends to virtually my cost.....just to give people an "alternative" to rubber hose and clamps on barbed fittings.

And for anyone that wants some tires that have the cords showing, for the next Silver State ORR Event....I can get some of those and ship them.

ROG100

Greg,
As I said in my post "my bad" as it was the mechanical hoses that failed.
I guess the point I want to make is anything can fail even a Greg Brown "super" hose.

Porsche water pumps fail.

The facts are not being represented fairly when you state the issues with the Gates hoses. I also want to know if there is an issue as like you I stand by what I sell.

I have sent this thread to Gates to get their fuel hose engineers involved so they can clarify the issues of concen.

Awesome hoses - I am forwarding customer requests directly to you for your hoses as you have a "special" on pricing that I can not meet until after Thanks Giving.

Best,
Roger

GregBBRD

I do know that you care about quality as much as I do and admire how you have "approached" problems, as they have occurred.

And to further clarify, I've never seen any direct problems with the Gates hose installed on barbed fittings designed for plastic hose. I must also say that I have no customers that have done this modification, so it would be "tough" to have seen any problems.

I am simply reading what Gates says and assuming that they know what they are talking about.....it's pretty clear that they don't recommend doing this.

The reality of what you have done with your hose and clamp kits is this.....What alternative did people have who had a leaking hose, other than putting some type of rubber hose onto the barbed fittings? Up to me having these fittings made, there simply wasn't an alternative. Since the original hoses were no longer available, people either clamped rubber hose onto the existing barbed fittings, or parked their cars.

In the past, I have used rubber hose with clamps, however, I picked a hose that had an extremely tough inner liner, so that the sharp barbs could not cut that inner liner, which is what Gates seems to be concerned with.

I look forward to what the engineers have to say. However, keep in mind that I'm not "bad mouthing" their hose.....I'm simply reading what they have said about their hose, in this application.

James Bailey

If Gates and their attornies and liability insurance company are not comfortable recommending their hose be clamped on barbs and they are in business to sell hoses ....... I think they are the experts and even if you can get away with it most of the time still seems like a bad bet.

davek9

I wanted to post these pic's earlier, before these most recent posts started, however here is what I've seen after reading this and having the need to remove fresh Fuel hose due to a factory (old) fitting failing to correctly seat and leak.

As can be see from the first pic's where I tried to pull off the hose before cutting it, there is a noticeable notching but no way is it "cut" to the point of leaking.

The last pic's are of a hose that I just cut with out trying to remove from the barb end by pulling and it clearly shows marks from the barbs but nothing I would be concerned with, but this is just my opinion.

Note: A hose can be cut by a hose clamp by over tighten it, there is no need to over tighten any clamp on a rubber hose and the chance of that happening would be greatly increased by the barbs if one was to over tighten them.

Dave

jpitman2

We have found that in the hydraulics field sharp pointed barbs act as one way valves in pulsed flow conditions, and actually promote oil weeping out of the crimp - all of ours are rounded barbs now. With teflon lined tubing the crimping is critical down to the micron, as its very easily cut on the barbs.
jp 83 Euro S AT 54k

the flyin' scotsman

Maybe Im overlooking the obvious but can we not use the OEM ends with a modern plastic hose OR grind/smooth over the barbs down.

89FrontPorsche

I'm going to chime in here, though I haven't been to the website in some time.

My beloved '89 burnt to a crisp two weeks ago. I was at a stoplight, briefly smelled gasoline, then a loud bang and there was fire.

I'm thinking a high-pressure fuel line let go.

Nothing I could do but watch it burn. I had intended to just get the car through the intersection to a parking lot and shut it down and have a look but then the loud bang, engine quit and fire. Happened in less than 30 seconds. Light was just about to change, too.

Heartbroken, I have now dealt with the insurance company and will have sufficient funds to replace the car. Fuel lines are an absolute first-thing-do-it-now item. So Greg, I will be contacting you when the replacement car gets here.

This thread is one of the most educational I have read. I am pissed at myself for assuming the original fuel lines would be ok. In hindsight, a 24 year old car needs things. yeah....duh. However, as expensive an education as this was, I'll simply tell others to change their fuel lines with the best &%#@ lines they can find and to do it now.

There is nothing quite like watching your pride and joy burn to the ground.

newworld

87s4. I just pulled all my fuel lines. I will say this visual inspection is not good enough. Other posters have noted this but i will reiterate the topside of hose may look fine but I flipped it over and bent it....there were cracks everywhere esp the curved lines.

The polyamide lines I obviously could not see what was going on there...but all others in back of engine need to be replaced in this age car.