Alternatives to Mobil1 15-50?
10-01-2012, 05:31 PM
#17
Racer
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Viscosity and Zinc levels are important. Nothng less than 15W50 and preferrably 20W50 for most climates. Hotter climates 15W50. IMPORTANTLY are the ZINC levels. ZDDP is a very important additive for our sharks to minimise wear. ZDDP increases the film strength between metal on metal e.g. camshaft lobes on cam buckets, etc. Go with a good quality hi ZDDP (min. 1000-1100ppm). I use Valvoline MaxLife 20W50. I have heard good things about Brad Penn, Royla Purple, Valvoline. Be very careful about oil company recommendations for our cars. Frankly 0W40 will simply not work. It will cause oil pressure issues especially when engine is heat soaked and most oils speced for new model cars simply lack sufficient ZDDP to mitigate engine wear.
My 2 cents worth :-D
Cheers
My 2 cents worth :-D
Cheers
10-01-2012, 05:44 PM
#18
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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At the risk of setting of the oil debate again, I thought I would share the following explanation provided by one of our local and experienced Porsche 928 service shops (credit to BB) that may offer you and this forum some additional insight into oils. It's long but informative:
Last century Porsche engines very much need high oil film strength engine oils if one wants as much long life as possible out of items that have no oil pressure keeping the metal parts away from each other , such as } A ) valve guides ( air cooled 911 huge wear issue ) B ) Cam lobes & hydraulic lifter faces ( flat tappet design )= 944 / 928 C) Crankshaft thrust bearings D) Camshaft chain sprockets ( 944 & 928 twin cam heads) E) Alloy piston skirts against alloy cylinders F) 911 air cooled rocker arms contact faces with cam lobes All the above we have seen exceptional wear , meaning high wear , when these engines have been on low viscosity so called synthetic engine oils , and conversely we have little or no wear on the same types( & 3 times the milage) where they have been on the oil viscosities recommended by Porsche that is printed in the owners manual that came with the car new . So on a last century Porsche } 911 air cooled ( all year types ) 924 931 944 944S 944S2 928 ( 4.5L , 4.7L, 5.0L , 5.4L ) 968 951 We see in the owners manual on the oil viscosity page , the oil chart showing ambient temp ranges In the "Look at me " shaded section of this page under the heading of multi grade oils we see the first ambient temp range of = minus 10 deg cel to unlimited high ambient temp ( sounds like Australia to me ) , we then see the recommendation of a 20w-50 & 15w-50 , One does not see 5w-40 etc in this temp range Note } in Porsche cars ( 928 , 911 , 944 etc ) up to about 1983 or so the ambient temp range for a 20w-50 was minus 15 deg cel to unlimited high temp range Now lets go to engine oil film strength } Question = how do I increase oil film strength with an engine oil on this planet in this universe ? Answer = there are two basic ways 1) increase the oil viscosity ( say from a 5w-40 to a 20w-50) if both oils have the same amount of ZDDP 2) increase ZDDP or add Molybdenum ( in conjunction with ZDDP ),which enhances the effectiveness & life of the ZDDP So if you add the two ( meaning 20w-50 & ZDDP ) = high oil film strength Subnote } most if not all 20w-50 engine oils are OK in respect to their ZDDP amounts , because last century engine's & oils are not subject to this century emission protocols , most cars in this century use much lower viscosites ( engines designed for this)& to meet the emission protocols( lower levels of ZDDP & no Moly), meaning 0w-30 , 0w-40 , 5w-40 oils for this century cars are generally lower in their oil film strengths as compared to a 20w-50 with ZDDP , even though the replacement AW ( anti wear additive) of ZDDP ( read Boron ) has not been as useful in regards to increasing oil film strength as ZDDP was / is in last century viscosities. There was even one famous oil company here in Australia that experimented with dropping the amount of ZDDP in their 15w-50 just over a decade ago & that was interesting , we saw quite a few worn cams and above parts mentioned above within 60,000Kms( on average) , Oh and by the way the same oil reverted back to a higher ZDDP ( it can be a bit of a mine field at times) So you can see why I am not easy about recommending even a 15w-50 , even though it was probably a one off The reason we can figure that easily is one only has to look at the advertising for this century racing oils for "this" century engines & oil companies are falling over each other to show how much ZDDP is in their racing oils , and yes they are not falling over each other to show how much more Boron or any other AW additive they have added , they just go on about ZDDP , so it must work over wise they would just say things like " we have added twice the amount of non ZDDP AW replacement like Boron etc " , well this is not happening , its ZDDP , yep last century solutions in this century racing oils ( who would have guessed that ) Now lets go to primary diesel engine oils , like Delvac etc , excellent oil for a diesel engine that is designed for that viscosity , however Mobil & Porsche do not recommend a diesel oil in a petrol powered engine , not last century & not in this century Now why is that so ? Answer = primary diesel oils are very high in detergents( compared to petrol powered oils) and these detergent packages tend to make engine oil foam too easily , so they then add silicon to reduce this tendency , but detergents attack the ZDDP , thats why primary diesel oils look as if they have very high ZDDP( new) , but as time goes by the ZDDP is damaged by the detergent packages . Now back to the foaming , if a petrol engine from last century revs harder to make its max power as opposed to a diesel engine from last century ( like for like) this in quite normal , so in a big rig that cruises on the freeway at 1,800 RPM will give the oil way less tendency to foam as say a sports car / GT engine that is being revved to 6,500 RPM a lot . This is where it gets interesting , foaming / air bubbles in the oil is the VERY last thing you need in a 944 / 951 or a 928 , because they have a very small flaw in their crank oil feed design , they starve no 2 con rod bearing ( 944 / 951 / 968 ) and 2& 6 con rod bearings on a 928 if the oil pressure drops to low. How do we drop the oil pressure with a high core temp ? Answer = use a 5w-40 oil ( in Australia) , then make it a diesel engine oil that will foam more easily & you are putting the bottom end at risk for not net gain what so ever How do we reduce / eliminate this from happening ? Answer = we consult the owners manual ( very easy stuff to understand) Question = Do we see people destroy last century Porsche engines at the track when they are running even slightly lower viscosities ? Answer = used to be very common , now getting better as people get better educated by reading their owners manual Question = How do we eliminate this human tendency of wanting to use this century oils in last century Porsche engines . Answer = Education . Now onto oil pressure for a bit , we used to get ( every summer ) 928 ( all types) 944 / 951/968 turn up at our workshop with their oil pressure warning light glowing brightly at idle , naturally its a hot day & they have spent a few hours crawling in heavy traffic to get this high core temp ( no not coolant temp ) I mean core oil temp , and this is normally due to 5w-40 , we even get the odd one do it on a 10w-40 , so for these conditions the only thing that works is a 20w-50 ( never fails ( so long as the engine is not already badly damage by running around with a low vis oil Remember , if the oil warning light is on at idle , then you can not go for full power because the con rod bearings are at severe risk at high revs , on a 20w-50 this will not occur .
Cheers
Last century Porsche engines very much need high oil film strength engine oils if one wants as much long life as possible out of items that have no oil pressure keeping the metal parts away from each other , such as } A ) valve guides ( air cooled 911 huge wear issue ) B ) Cam lobes & hydraulic lifter faces ( flat tappet design )= 944 / 928 C) Crankshaft thrust bearings D) Camshaft chain sprockets ( 944 & 928 twin cam heads) E) Alloy piston skirts against alloy cylinders F) 911 air cooled rocker arms contact faces with cam lobes All the above we have seen exceptional wear , meaning high wear , when these engines have been on low viscosity so called synthetic engine oils , and conversely we have little or no wear on the same types( & 3 times the milage) where they have been on the oil viscosities recommended by Porsche that is printed in the owners manual that came with the car new . So on a last century Porsche } 911 air cooled ( all year types ) 924 931 944 944S 944S2 928 ( 4.5L , 4.7L, 5.0L , 5.4L ) 968 951 We see in the owners manual on the oil viscosity page , the oil chart showing ambient temp ranges In the "Look at me " shaded section of this page under the heading of multi grade oils we see the first ambient temp range of = minus 10 deg cel to unlimited high ambient temp ( sounds like Australia to me ) , we then see the recommendation of a 20w-50 & 15w-50 , One does not see 5w-40 etc in this temp range Note } in Porsche cars ( 928 , 911 , 944 etc ) up to about 1983 or so the ambient temp range for a 20w-50 was minus 15 deg cel to unlimited high temp range Now lets go to engine oil film strength } Question = how do I increase oil film strength with an engine oil on this planet in this universe ? Answer = there are two basic ways 1) increase the oil viscosity ( say from a 5w-40 to a 20w-50) if both oils have the same amount of ZDDP 2) increase ZDDP or add Molybdenum ( in conjunction with ZDDP ),which enhances the effectiveness & life of the ZDDP So if you add the two ( meaning 20w-50 & ZDDP ) = high oil film strength Subnote } most if not all 20w-50 engine oils are OK in respect to their ZDDP amounts , because last century engine's & oils are not subject to this century emission protocols , most cars in this century use much lower viscosites ( engines designed for this)& to meet the emission protocols( lower levels of ZDDP & no Moly), meaning 0w-30 , 0w-40 , 5w-40 oils for this century cars are generally lower in their oil film strengths as compared to a 20w-50 with ZDDP , even though the replacement AW ( anti wear additive) of ZDDP ( read Boron ) has not been as useful in regards to increasing oil film strength as ZDDP was / is in last century viscosities. There was even one famous oil company here in Australia that experimented with dropping the amount of ZDDP in their 15w-50 just over a decade ago & that was interesting , we saw quite a few worn cams and above parts mentioned above within 60,000Kms( on average) , Oh and by the way the same oil reverted back to a higher ZDDP ( it can be a bit of a mine field at times) So you can see why I am not easy about recommending even a 15w-50 , even though it was probably a one off The reason we can figure that easily is one only has to look at the advertising for this century racing oils for "this" century engines & oil companies are falling over each other to show how much ZDDP is in their racing oils , and yes they are not falling over each other to show how much more Boron or any other AW additive they have added , they just go on about ZDDP , so it must work over wise they would just say things like " we have added twice the amount of non ZDDP AW replacement like Boron etc " , well this is not happening , its ZDDP , yep last century solutions in this century racing oils ( who would have guessed that ) Now lets go to primary diesel engine oils , like Delvac etc , excellent oil for a diesel engine that is designed for that viscosity , however Mobil & Porsche do not recommend a diesel oil in a petrol powered engine , not last century & not in this century Now why is that so ? Answer = primary diesel oils are very high in detergents( compared to petrol powered oils) and these detergent packages tend to make engine oil foam too easily , so they then add silicon to reduce this tendency , but detergents attack the ZDDP , thats why primary diesel oils look as if they have very high ZDDP( new) , but as time goes by the ZDDP is damaged by the detergent packages . Now back to the foaming , if a petrol engine from last century revs harder to make its max power as opposed to a diesel engine from last century ( like for like) this in quite normal , so in a big rig that cruises on the freeway at 1,800 RPM will give the oil way less tendency to foam as say a sports car / GT engine that is being revved to 6,500 RPM a lot . This is where it gets interesting , foaming / air bubbles in the oil is the VERY last thing you need in a 944 / 951 or a 928 , because they have a very small flaw in their crank oil feed design , they starve no 2 con rod bearing ( 944 / 951 / 968 ) and 2& 6 con rod bearings on a 928 if the oil pressure drops to low. How do we drop the oil pressure with a high core temp ? Answer = use a 5w-40 oil ( in Australia) , then make it a diesel engine oil that will foam more easily & you are putting the bottom end at risk for not net gain what so ever How do we reduce / eliminate this from happening ? Answer = we consult the owners manual ( very easy stuff to understand) Question = Do we see people destroy last century Porsche engines at the track when they are running even slightly lower viscosities ? Answer = used to be very common , now getting better as people get better educated by reading their owners manual Question = How do we eliminate this human tendency of wanting to use this century oils in last century Porsche engines . Answer = Education . Now onto oil pressure for a bit , we used to get ( every summer ) 928 ( all types) 944 / 951/968 turn up at our workshop with their oil pressure warning light glowing brightly at idle , naturally its a hot day & they have spent a few hours crawling in heavy traffic to get this high core temp ( no not coolant temp ) I mean core oil temp , and this is normally due to 5w-40 , we even get the odd one do it on a 10w-40 , so for these conditions the only thing that works is a 20w-50 ( never fails ( so long as the engine is not already badly damage by running around with a low vis oil Remember , if the oil warning light is on at idle , then you can not go for full power because the con rod bearings are at severe risk at high revs , on a 20w-50 this will not occur .
Cheers
10-01-2012, 05:56 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
The more I read on this topic, the less I know. As example, check out the sticky on oils in the Corvette forum: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...test-data.html Look where they racked Mobil 1 15-50.
Lots more to this than ZDDP... load carrying capacity/film strength, detergents, viscocity breakdown, ZDDP depletion, etc. etc.
Personally, I've switched to Royal Purple 20-50 as it says right on the label, ZDDP added. But, I'm thinking about adding some Torco ZEP just to play it safe. Can an engine overdose from too much ZDDP??
Lots more to this than ZDDP... load carrying capacity/film strength, detergents, viscocity breakdown, ZDDP depletion, etc. etc.
Personally, I've switched to Royal Purple 20-50 as it says right on the label, ZDDP added. But, I'm thinking about adding some Torco ZEP just to play it safe. Can an engine overdose from too much ZDDP??
10-01-2012, 06:18 PM
#20
Fredericton - and my wife does go shopping in Maine occasionally, I'll get her to take a look next time. Or, god forbid, this will be her excuse to go shopping. Most. Expensive. Oil. Ever.
10-01-2012, 06:59 PM
#21
Your local BMW dealer should have the Castrol TWS 10-60 (factory fill for M series bimmers).. It's pricey (Was $9 a liter here years ago..probably more like $13 now)..but it's a great oil....
good luck in your hunt ..
good luck in your hunt ..
10-01-2012, 07:42 PM
#22
Instructor
Rotella Triple Protection 15w40 for my climate. Check out their web site - a lot of info on this one. It is what they replaced their older ZDDP oil they no longer make with. it is something like 3 times better on wear than their ZDDP version was. I am quite pleased with it after a year or so. We do not freeze much here and go up to low to mid 90's max. This is not the T6.
2 cents
Added - You can get it at Wal-mart and places like Tractor Supply 17 $ for 4 quarts!.
2 cents
Added - You can get it at Wal-mart and places like Tractor Supply 17 $ for 4 quarts!.
10-01-2012, 09:08 PM
#23
Race Car
The more I read on this topic, the less I know. As example, check out the sticky on oils in the Corvette forum: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...test-data.html Look where they racked Mobil 1 15-50.
Lots more to this than ZDDP... load carrying capacity/film strength, detergents, viscocity breakdown, ZDDP depletion, etc. etc.
Personally, I've switched to Royal Purple 20-50 as it says right on the label, ZDDP added. But, I'm thinking about adding some Torco ZEP just to play it safe. Can an engine overdose from too much ZDDP??
Lots more to this than ZDDP... load carrying capacity/film strength, detergents, viscocity breakdown, ZDDP depletion, etc. etc.
Personally, I've switched to Royal Purple 20-50 as it says right on the label, ZDDP added. But, I'm thinking about adding some Torco ZEP just to play it safe. Can an engine overdose from too much ZDDP??
Dan
'91 928GT S/C
475hp/460lb.ft
10-01-2012, 09:31 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
What is the best oil for a 928?
If you're not driving your 928 in a hot climate that 5w40 may be enough. Keep an eye on the oil pressure when the car is at-temp and it's idling. If it's below 1bar then you need a thicker oil.
You can always mail order or find an Amsoil dealer.
If you're not driving your 928 in a hot climate that 5w40 may be enough. Keep an eye on the oil pressure when the car is at-temp and it's idling. If it's below 1bar then you need a thicker oil.
You can always mail order or find an Amsoil dealer.
10-01-2012, 10:03 PM
#25
Nordschleife Master
Found this on a blog re: zinc additives. Thought it would fit with the subject at hand.
The Straight Scoop on ZDDP (Zinc) Additives
April 27, 2012 by Jeff Ventura
Q:
Hi Rislone. The waters are really muddy right now as far as newer oils without ZDDP, and even with the zinc additive. I have procured gallons of your Rislone with ZDDP trying to protect my older engines. Having some older MGs, I keep up with the latest gossip on a very popular MG forum in the old T car section (TA TC TD TF).
In the latest issue of the New England MG T Register’s Sacred Octagon, there was an article, “Show me the ZINC”:
“During a conversation with Bob Wagner, owner of Wagner Motor Sports in Atlanta, the question about inc levels in oil came up. I told him I have been using Valvolene 20W–50 VR1 (racing oil) in five of my seven British cars for the past 15 or more years with no problems. Then I said ”on the last Harley engine rebuild I added a zinc additive to the VR1 just for GP."
"He said he has been using racing break-in oil on all of his race engine rebuilds and a mix of racing break-in oil and conventional oil on street engines with great success. He also said he was told by his race oil supplier about the problem that was found by using the additive. The additives are not working because the new detergent oils do not allow foreign matter to stick to engine parts. Zinc being a foreign matter is held in suspension and is not allowed to stick to surfaces such as the lifters and cam lobes Bob and I agreed this sounded reasonable but was it true… we didn’t know.
Since then I have talked with members of the Ford Flat Head Club, a hot rod buddy, a representative from Joe Gibbs Oil and they have all confirmed what Bob Wagner had said. From what I have been told the above oil companies have run test that show zinc additives added to conventional oil offer little or no protection."
The article rambles on, but you get the gist of it.
As an engineer and owner of a hydraulics business, I find this rationale quite illogical.
First off, if it were added to old nondetergent oil, I’d expect to find it in the sediment on the bottom of the oil pan in no time. Thart fact that detergents keep it in circulation is a good thing. Engines survive on an oil film in a perfect world, but when there’s metal-to-metal contact at startup and often cam lobes/followers, I like the thoughts of zinc there in the crunch. I’ve been known to dump graphite powder in my engines, too.
It sounds like the specialty oil suppliers are trying to scare people into buying their products.
There are a lot of us old codgers out here with money to spend and cost is no object when it comes to oil for our expensive toys.
Jim N.
A:
Jim, it is very hard to be in this industry and be totally unbiased. It becomes natural for additive companies to push their brand, and for oil companies to push any specialty oil products they produce, which many times sell at a premium price. In our case, we have worked to reduce the cost as much as possible which is why we are releasing a super concentrated version of our ZDDP additive that will be $7.99 or less at most locations starting summer 2012. Until then we have our quart available. Use this additive with your favorite SN-rated motor oil, and it will boost your zinc and phosphorus levels to 1600 to 1800 ppm. We at Rislone work hard to offer product solutions that solve problems. We have been doing it since 1921 and have seen many changes in motor oil tribology, additive chemistries, their solubility and performance. This is no different than the ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) supplement additives we have formulated for the latest problem. Today’s oils are not designed to be run in older engines. The oil companies have worked hard for years to keep oils backward-compatible, but it has finally hit a wall. For the most part, the situation is no different than when lead was removed from gasoline. In older vehicles that were designed run on leaded regular gasoline you either need an additive, or make changes in the engines to adapt them to survive with unleaded fuel.
The product in our bottles is our own proprietary formulation developed from our 90 years of real world experience, along with R&D partners who have developed, formulated and analyzed PCMO’s, HDDEO’s and high performance oils through multiple API Service Categories and OEM performance requirements.
To help understand why there is a need for this product, you need to understand how oils have changed in the past 30 years. Just think back to the SF oil that had nominal levels of zinc and phosphorus at 1500 to 1600 ppm where the current SN oil has a nominal value of 600 to 700 ppm. The reason for this drop was the negative effects phosphorus was shown to have on some emission components, like catalytic converters. Even after all these years, ZDDP is still one of the best additives to prevent wear & oxidation and inhibit rust. The Rislone ZDDP Engine Oil Supplement formulation employs advanced ZDDP technology which has shown no detrimental effects to emission control devices due to its very low volatility.
Today’s engines are designed to run with this lower level of protection, because the sliding metal parts are either designed with rollers or anti-friction coatings to prevent wear. But even today’s engines need some ZDDP to protect internal engine parts, and it continues to work well with the latest oil technology, both regular petroleum and synthetic. This does not help everyone who owns an older vehicle that needs higher levels of ZDDP, especially classic cars, or racing engines that have higher valve spring pressures or those which are not driven daily. History has shown that reducing the ZDDP package has seen increases in premature failure with flat tappet camshafts and other internal engine parts. What can be deceiving is that in many cases, this does not happen overnight, but could take months or even years. This is because the ZDDP provides a sacrificial layer that does get consumed as miles accumulate on the engine.
ZDDP is still necessary in crankcase motor oils and due to its polarity it is in solution, not suspension otherwise solubilized, e.g. scotch & water. The polar zinc migrates and grabs on any exposed surface. The detergent package will not prevent the zinc from bonding with the metal surfaces, nor will it remove the zinc once adhered. These detergents and dispersants keep oxidized particles & soot suspended to be captured by the filter. There is a certain ratio of zinc to phosphorus inside the additive package to make sure this happens. In fact, most ZDDP oil additive packages contain detergents as part of the package.
You can make laboratory type testing show most any results you want to convince consumers that your way of thinking is correct. At the end of the day it is the real world testing and use that everyone needs to count on. Not to sound like a commercial, but Rislone produces the best additives sold worldwide, and as we approach 100 years in business, we’ll continue to create products needed for the ever-changing automobile.
Posted in:
Engine
Tagged:
4401ZDDPzincolder enginesoil additives
The Straight Scoop on ZDDP (Zinc) Additives
April 27, 2012 by Jeff Ventura
Q:
Hi Rislone. The waters are really muddy right now as far as newer oils without ZDDP, and even with the zinc additive. I have procured gallons of your Rislone with ZDDP trying to protect my older engines. Having some older MGs, I keep up with the latest gossip on a very popular MG forum in the old T car section (TA TC TD TF).
In the latest issue of the New England MG T Register’s Sacred Octagon, there was an article, “Show me the ZINC”:
“During a conversation with Bob Wagner, owner of Wagner Motor Sports in Atlanta, the question about inc levels in oil came up. I told him I have been using Valvolene 20W–50 VR1 (racing oil) in five of my seven British cars for the past 15 or more years with no problems. Then I said ”on the last Harley engine rebuild I added a zinc additive to the VR1 just for GP."
"He said he has been using racing break-in oil on all of his race engine rebuilds and a mix of racing break-in oil and conventional oil on street engines with great success. He also said he was told by his race oil supplier about the problem that was found by using the additive. The additives are not working because the new detergent oils do not allow foreign matter to stick to engine parts. Zinc being a foreign matter is held in suspension and is not allowed to stick to surfaces such as the lifters and cam lobes Bob and I agreed this sounded reasonable but was it true… we didn’t know.
Since then I have talked with members of the Ford Flat Head Club, a hot rod buddy, a representative from Joe Gibbs Oil and they have all confirmed what Bob Wagner had said. From what I have been told the above oil companies have run test that show zinc additives added to conventional oil offer little or no protection."
The article rambles on, but you get the gist of it.
As an engineer and owner of a hydraulics business, I find this rationale quite illogical.
First off, if it were added to old nondetergent oil, I’d expect to find it in the sediment on the bottom of the oil pan in no time. Thart fact that detergents keep it in circulation is a good thing. Engines survive on an oil film in a perfect world, but when there’s metal-to-metal contact at startup and often cam lobes/followers, I like the thoughts of zinc there in the crunch. I’ve been known to dump graphite powder in my engines, too.
It sounds like the specialty oil suppliers are trying to scare people into buying their products.
There are a lot of us old codgers out here with money to spend and cost is no object when it comes to oil for our expensive toys.
Jim N.
A:
Jim, it is very hard to be in this industry and be totally unbiased. It becomes natural for additive companies to push their brand, and for oil companies to push any specialty oil products they produce, which many times sell at a premium price. In our case, we have worked to reduce the cost as much as possible which is why we are releasing a super concentrated version of our ZDDP additive that will be $7.99 or less at most locations starting summer 2012. Until then we have our quart available. Use this additive with your favorite SN-rated motor oil, and it will boost your zinc and phosphorus levels to 1600 to 1800 ppm. We at Rislone work hard to offer product solutions that solve problems. We have been doing it since 1921 and have seen many changes in motor oil tribology, additive chemistries, their solubility and performance. This is no different than the ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) supplement additives we have formulated for the latest problem. Today’s oils are not designed to be run in older engines. The oil companies have worked hard for years to keep oils backward-compatible, but it has finally hit a wall. For the most part, the situation is no different than when lead was removed from gasoline. In older vehicles that were designed run on leaded regular gasoline you either need an additive, or make changes in the engines to adapt them to survive with unleaded fuel.
The product in our bottles is our own proprietary formulation developed from our 90 years of real world experience, along with R&D partners who have developed, formulated and analyzed PCMO’s, HDDEO’s and high performance oils through multiple API Service Categories and OEM performance requirements.
To help understand why there is a need for this product, you need to understand how oils have changed in the past 30 years. Just think back to the SF oil that had nominal levels of zinc and phosphorus at 1500 to 1600 ppm where the current SN oil has a nominal value of 600 to 700 ppm. The reason for this drop was the negative effects phosphorus was shown to have on some emission components, like catalytic converters. Even after all these years, ZDDP is still one of the best additives to prevent wear & oxidation and inhibit rust. The Rislone ZDDP Engine Oil Supplement formulation employs advanced ZDDP technology which has shown no detrimental effects to emission control devices due to its very low volatility.
Today’s engines are designed to run with this lower level of protection, because the sliding metal parts are either designed with rollers or anti-friction coatings to prevent wear. But even today’s engines need some ZDDP to protect internal engine parts, and it continues to work well with the latest oil technology, both regular petroleum and synthetic. This does not help everyone who owns an older vehicle that needs higher levels of ZDDP, especially classic cars, or racing engines that have higher valve spring pressures or those which are not driven daily. History has shown that reducing the ZDDP package has seen increases in premature failure with flat tappet camshafts and other internal engine parts. What can be deceiving is that in many cases, this does not happen overnight, but could take months or even years. This is because the ZDDP provides a sacrificial layer that does get consumed as miles accumulate on the engine.
ZDDP is still necessary in crankcase motor oils and due to its polarity it is in solution, not suspension otherwise solubilized, e.g. scotch & water. The polar zinc migrates and grabs on any exposed surface. The detergent package will not prevent the zinc from bonding with the metal surfaces, nor will it remove the zinc once adhered. These detergents and dispersants keep oxidized particles & soot suspended to be captured by the filter. There is a certain ratio of zinc to phosphorus inside the additive package to make sure this happens. In fact, most ZDDP oil additive packages contain detergents as part of the package.
You can make laboratory type testing show most any results you want to convince consumers that your way of thinking is correct. At the end of the day it is the real world testing and use that everyone needs to count on. Not to sound like a commercial, but Rislone produces the best additives sold worldwide, and as we approach 100 years in business, we’ll continue to create products needed for the ever-changing automobile.
Posted in:
Engine
Tagged:
4401ZDDPzincolder enginesoil additives
10-01-2012, 10:16 PM
#27
Zinc additives are out there by many different names. Rislone is one.
I suggest just getting a decent oil like M1 15w-50, Royal Purple 20w-50 or Brad Penn 20w-50 or Torco 20w-50.
10-01-2012, 10:51 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
What he said...
Mobil and all other automotive standard oils have nearly eliminated zinc from their oils. An important additive which helps oil stick to parts.
Needless to say, i would only buy Brad Penn oil. Its worth it and you will notice a difference in your car.
I have been told by friends who purchased Penn for their bikes. Bike shifts better and does not overheat like it had when used Mobil one for years. They would never go back.
Just my 2 cents, i am sure others might disagree.
I guess my last choice would be 20/50 racing oil from Valvoline , add some zinc on the side.
Needless to say, i would only buy Brad Penn oil. Its worth it and you will notice a difference in your car.
I have been told by friends who purchased Penn for their bikes. Bike shifts better and does not overheat like it had when used Mobil one for years. They would never go back.
Just my 2 cents, i am sure others might disagree.
I guess my last choice would be 20/50 racing oil from Valvoline , add some zinc on the side.
Brad Penn 20-50 racing oil "The Green Oil" as they promote it ....
It's got the ZDDP etc. etc. to protect the older designs.....
I've been using it for five years now, no issues, no low pressures,(up to 100 F) in stop and go traffic.......
Your call, My $9.28 worth....
10-01-2012, 10:58 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Did this before ...BTDT....after learning far more than I ever needed or wanted to know about this topic.....
Brad Penn 20-50 racing oil "The Green Oil" as they promote it ....
It's got the ZDDP etc. etc. to protect the older designs.....
I've been using it for five years now, no issues, no low pressures,(up to 100 F) in stop and go traffic.......
Your call, My $9.28 worth....
Brad Penn 20-50 racing oil "The Green Oil" as they promote it ....
It's got the ZDDP etc. etc. to protect the older designs.....
I've been using it for five years now, no issues, no low pressures,(up to 100 F) in stop and go traffic.......
Your call, My $9.28 worth....
