WallyP

I think that the 928 Owners Club is the logical choice.

The recent election obviously has created a lot of ill-will, and that ill-will and the resulting negativism about the OC have resulted in some negative assumptions and statements in this discussion. While it is currently fashionable to automatically bash the OC, there are valid reasons to consider the OC and its website as the natural home of the Registry.

As a Trustee, I see absolutely no reason that the OC would make the Registry a "members-only" feature of the OC website. It makes no sense to lock up what could be a powerful draw for non-members to learn about the club. There are currently plans in discussion for making the OC website more accessible and useful for both members and nonmembers.

The OC is more likely to survive and grow now than ever. If it survived the doldrums and the turbulence of its past, it will live long and prosper. Clubs outlive bickering and rivalries. The OC provides the best chance for the Registry to survive in its present form, or even better, to grow and become an active, vital part of owner participation.

The 928 Owners Club might represent the best opportunity to have Porsche accept the existence of the Registry. While the 928 is a dead brand, so is the 356, and Porsche certainly guards that brand jealously. Having the Registry as a part of a non-commercial, owner-oriented site might be its best chance for tolerance from Porsche. While this betrays my bias, PCA as a whole has shown little interest in supporting the 928, and I doubt that there would be sufficient interest in maintaining the Registry.

The OC has the best chance to attract dedicated volunteers for maintaining the Registry on a continuing basis. There is less incentive to volunteer to help a profit-based organization.

Gary Knox

Chuck,

My thanks is added to the many above for the work and time you spent in developing the site and keeping it updated. If I'd done that, I know I would want to be sure it was going to live well into the far distant future - if I was "departing".

As I was thinking about it, I came to almost the same conclusions that Jarrod Wise did (but also thought that the 928 OC could handle it as I have great hopes that we will find more volunteers to work out new approaches in the future). Jarrod's comments were:
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"Hi Chuck. None of the three options fully represented my opinion. My thoughts are:
Find a 928 enthusiast volunteer who will maintain/update the site for you, while you retain ownership. Sell it to Roger and let him find someone to do the maintenance/updates. (I wouldn't just sell it to anyone, that's why I didn't choose your option 1)


I'd be happy to volunteer, provided I could handle the technical side of maintaining the site. I'm pretty passionate about the 928, and I've compiled hundreds of photos myself (most including VIN numbers) over the years.

Thanks for all you've done to maintain the site and promote the 928 in general. IMHO, if there were a 928 "Hall of Fame", your site would be right up there with Phil Tong's old 928s4vr, which as you know was THE "go to" site when I first got into 928s back in the late 1990's.

Respectfully submitted,

Jarrod Wise"
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But then, when I got to Gator Bite's posting, I thought that would be an excellent approach. I am hopeful that 928 OC in the future will find a way to be in closer contact with PCA, and I will work to try to make that happen. This would be an excellent way to bring the connection closer together.

Of course, in the final assessment, it is your decision as to whether you want to sell it for $$ or find the best way to assure it's continuity for as long as 928's are cherished by their owners. Thus, I did not vote!

Best wishes and Thanks again for your work.

Gary Knox
928 Owners Club charter member and current Treasurer

Jadz928

Self-service, to me, is the way to go. However, I know Chuck has been very particular about preserving accurate information and controlling said info.
Giving it up to anyone and everyone to create/modify their own data has it challenges and loop-holes. I'll have to think about this one some more.

I hope Chuck will chime in on this, as I'm sure he's considered these fundamentals.

Chuck Z

Jim, you are right on. I have suffered the wrath of upset sellers/owners when I published not so positive history on 928s with sorted histories b/c I would not remove or alter posted information. It is imparative that whomever carries on the site maintains the integrity of the information. Giving individuals that kind of access is prolly not a good thing......

Tom. M

I can't believe you guys want IB to take the reigns of the Registry...LOL...those guys can't code their way out of a box and you know if it goes to them, it'll be Premium membership and everything submitted becomes the property of IB.....

As far as the OC taking over it...maybe it's time for an alternative to the OC...maybe a more regional based group of OC's....each growing independently? The structure is already there (Texas crew, PacNW, SOCAL, DC area, Denver area, Canada) ...and those groups have been existing and flourishing on their own for years...?????

I think the best option is to mimic what the 356 Registry has done...and if we want the 928 Registry to have any relevance, it should be tied to Porsche somehow...

m750rider

Check this out as an example of a data input by owner site.

This is a self service registry for Lotus Elan owners which I belong to. Click through the site, especially "List Cars" and "Statistics". It has some nice features - searchable, able to arrange the display based on criteria like model, city, state, chassis number, etc.

http://elanregistry.org/

I think self service can be workable.

Regards

Bob

Gator Bite

I'd love to address those reservations for you and the group.

You move fast. I was sending you a PM with a login as you were typing this.

The Cayman Register is private, and only accessible by PCA members who register. We (my Cayman Register Team and I) decided on this strategy after a good amount of discussion. We did this for a few reasons, including:

1. To protect the privacy of our members. We have interactive web forums, photo albums, etc.... Sometimes folks don't want videos, photos and discussions of their track activities on the world wide web for all to see. (Insurance agents, employers, wives, etc...)

2. We want the Cayman Register to be an exclusive benefit to PCA members. That filter has allowed us to have thousands of discussions with no flame wars, no trolls, no solicitations, no shilling, etc....

The vBulletin software (same software used here) is very versatile in regard to permissions. We can do anything we want with privacy. If you wanted to morph the 928 Register into something like the Cayman Register, but wanted it open to all, that is fully possible.

Anyway, once you are in, check out the Cayman Garage. That's a place where folks are invited to list thier cars. Honestly, I am not happy with the garage functionality right now and am looking to improve it. But it does work well.

Also, once in take a look at the Photo Albums. Member share lots of pictures of their cars there.

Well, yeah sort of. We do have to set a limit, but that limit is pretty high. (In my opinion. I bet it's higher than the limits set here at Rennlist.)

At the Cayman Register, we allow each member to upload 5,000 images into their photo album. We limit the size of photo to 1,280 x 1,024 pixels (with an automatic re-sizer in place to resize upon upload if needed). Album space is limited to 2.44 GB per member.

Keep in mind that we have 1,456 members today. So we basically have made room for 3.55 terabytes of photos. That's a lot of storage.

When I started the Cayman Register, I asked the PCA IT guru, "OK, what happens if I fill the servers...?" He said, "We'll buy more servers...."

I sent you a login to the Cayman Register. Take a look at the photo albums and articles. You'll find loads of very big pictures....

Yeah, I know what you're saying here. I've seen a lot of this from early 911 owners, and I can understand why folks feel this way. There is a lot of coverage on the newer cars. But.... Let's remember... The PCA is a volunteer organization all the way up to the President. If we as members want to see something happen, it's kind of up to us to get involved and make it happen. The PCA is our canvas.

I have to disagree with that first paragraph. Porsche is very protective of their trademarks and brand. I have watched them enforce it vigorously. They really have to, because if they don't they would set a precedent that could be used against them during a protective action.

You will notice that the Cayman Register has the trademark "Cayman" in the URL, in its name. You'll notice that we have a picture of a Cayman R in our header, but not just any Cayman R, a Porsche stock photo.... Look over our Cayman FAQs (open to all visitors). They are loaded with Porsche stock photos and videos.

Porsche has a license agreement with the PCA allowing them to use most all trademarks, logos, brands, photos, videos, Porsche crest, etc..... You are VERY unlikely to get this sort of licensing agreement outside of the PCA.


Both are possible.... We can take this thing PCA, and you can be the first on our 928 Registry team....

MikeinBloomfield

I think the PCA is the best option. To have a website that is fully compliant from a trademark perspective, you've got to have Porsche's support. Porsche supports its owners through the PCA.

I get the whole "PCA is about 911s" issue. But that's the individual members, not the PCA itself.

Another thing to think about is the list of NLA parts for our cars are growing, seemingly daily. We need to get Porsche's attention, and I think one of the ways we do that is through a growing participation in the PCA.

SeanR

If Porsche was going to have an issue with the registry they would have already. Their legal department doesn't waste any time when it comes to dropping the hammer.

jcorenman

First, thank you Chuck for all of the work that you have put into the registry over the years.

I've been giving this some thought, and didn't really like any of the three poll options. The registry is a tremendous asset to everyone who loves these cars. Like many, I've been disappointed that it hasn't been maintained, but I also understand the tremendous amount of work that is involved.

Chuck, you have a lot invested in this, but it only has value if it moves forward. And selling it to a single entity (a vendor, or IB, or another individual) always carries the risk of that entity getting busy or distracted, and things getting stale.

So whatever you do, I would recommend an arrangement with some agreed-upon goals, where you maintain the right for some period to take the site back and do something different if things don't proceed as agreed. If it is structured as a sale, then tie payments into certain things happening by certain dates.

I think selling it to an owner-based organization with a good volunteer base would be the best option. Owners probably have the largest stake in its success, and if the organization doesn't do a good job with it, then the owners can make noise and ultimately vote the bums out.

I think the proper role for Roger, and Mark and others if interested, is as sponsors. They will benefit from an up-to-date registry, and it provides good exposure for them. That would also provide some revenue to help with expenses, and to pay for the acquisition of the current site. And if they get busy and distracted (with does happen) then they can still send money, while others maintain the site.

So, which owner organization? I am hopeful that 928OC can get its act together, and with a structured sale as I outlined above I think the risk is manageable. And it does have the characteristic noted above: If my stuff doesn't get posted in a timely way then I would not hesitate to pick up the phone and call James

And Gator Bite's suggestion of PCA is very interesting. I was a member decades ago in San Fran, enjoyed the local group there but didn't feel very connected to the national club-- the focus was always on fancy new 911's. We rejoined a few years ago, nothing has changed. But the marque has also gotten so diverse that I think that is changing, there are lots of "stepchildren" now. I think having a big 928 presence within PCA would be very interesting, and could be highly entertaining.

The trademark consideration is a good one. The site can certainly operate independently, but needs to be careful. I am sure that operating under the PCA umbrella would provide a lot more latitude. And these are Porsches, dammit, the first (and maybe still the only) clean-sheet design.

As for private vs public, I would like to see both: A public area where we could post info about our cars, and a members-only area-- the "back room"-- where we could post more details, projects, things in progress, etc.

Gator Bite

This is very easy to accomplish, and something I would support 100%. The best of both worlds....

turbobooost

Chuck, man we misssssssssssssssssssssssss you !!!! You and I go back along way, as I recall me calling you or you calling me on "EVERY" 928 to get the Vin # and facts of each car !!! !!! Man,that was many 928's ago, like when "TOP" $$$$$$$$$$$$$ on a 5 speed GTS was $35k !!!!!! LOL..WOW !!! Who would of ever thought they would be where they are now !!! In 1995,huge discounts were given and new Porsche dealers would just about give away their kids to sell one !!! Sooooooooooooooooooo you have most certainly been a factor in getting the 928 some well deserived press as well !!! I think the site needs to go to Roger who loves the car with a passion like we do,plus does a service to the 928 community with his business !!! It is a "PERFECT" fit !!! I think you could pass it on to Roger(CEO) somehow , and go to sleep at night knowing that what "YOU" created is in the "BEST" hands and perhaps Jim Morrison could be the Pres !!!! I'd put allllllllllllllll my money on these guys,"UNLESS" of course "YOU" stay on as Mr 928 !! My "BEST", my friend to you and your final answer !! MBW

SanDiego928

I liked the wheel page through the years and what was stock. Thanks for your time. Do you need people to donate 5 bucks per person to open it back up to register our cars?

M. Requin

Your answer and personal experience are very interesting, but as a retired sales and marketing professional, I must say not complete. To re-parse your words, "Why would someone want to create such a site?" There are not necessarily any differences in motivation between those who would create, and those who would buy, and obviously profit was not the motivation for the existence of this site, nor does it need to be for any potential buyer. Another enthusiast could buy it for the pleasure of continuing it, indeed Roger or some other vendor could buy it solely for that reason alone, or because it is perceived that such a purchase could enhance market position (and thus, hopefully, sales) within the 928 community. Profit is not the only motive, in spite of what most B-schools teach (and I briefly taught in one) .

But that is not to say that your comments were not interesting, they were thoughtful and I think will be useful to anyone thinking about this, and it was very interesting to read another way in which perpetuation of the site could be effected, which is what it's all about.

In other words, thanks for sharing your experience!

Chuck Z

Thanks for access to your site and especially for your feedback.

One of the basic functions of a "registry" website, at least in my opinion, is to document cars and the cars history by VIN. I do not see anything like that on your site. Perhaps I missed it?

In my opinion, a "registry" type website misses the mark and becomes nothing more than a place where folks post pictures of their cars albeit a site for a specific model? I said early on that I wasn't going to do just a picture site for 928s.