This is where you seem to miss the point, Stan. You often talk about people stepping up and getting involved. This is only one form of contribution to the OC. The masses contribute the best way they can, by paying membership dues. I'm sure most members do so without asking for anything in return.

You seem to be fixated on the whole "grass roots" change from local level approach. Not everyone can be as "hands on" as you. You seem to expect it from others. It comes across to me as I can do it, so why can't you?

Maybe the 928OC should thank all the hundreds of members who contribute annually, and give the OC financial capacity to operate how it does best; sponsoring local 928 events. It would be great to hear this from you, being you are the 928OC president.

And don't forget, it is a committee (928OC board) that approves on how membership due are allocated. So the way I see it is the OC board does have my membership's best interest in mind. I've never complained once about how my money was spent.

I almost didn't post this, because I was worried all I'd get back from you is argument, as you find way to parse my words. Or you could just say, ya know Jim, good point. I'm not holding my breath.

 

I'd like to respond to Roger's question earlier about whether a vendor should be allowed to be a board member of the OC.

I see it as a double-edged sword that could cause problems. Roger is an honorable guy and I think he would voluntarily recuse himself from anything that came up for a vote that could in any way be questioned or considered inappropriate. I feel the same about all of the major vendors we have.

However, every once in a while a vendor comes along whose intentions are not so pure and whose only goal is to gain access to the mailing lists or virtual 'ears' of the 928 community and the OC would have to be able to justify not letting that vendor be a board member while allowing the ones with a long positive track record in.

If it's an appointed position it could be debated as cronyism by the new vendor trying to get a foot in the door. If it's an elected position it would be easier to justify I guess, but any vendor who ran but was was not voted in would still probably make a stink.

The 928OC site doesn't allow advertisements for the simple reason that the club decided that no vendor should be 'endorsed' over another by the OC. This alone might make it unjustifiable to have a vendor on the board.

Unfortunately excluding vendors from the board would eliminate some of the most passionate members, who have the greatest stake in the continued interest in our cars.

When weighed against each other, I think having vendors on the board (and or as president/VP) has to be approached with great care and with an eye toward always erring on the side of checks and balances. NO unilateral decisions should ever be made by the president, but this is doubly so if the president also has a financial stake in the possible outcome of a decision (even one that can't be easily seen, like the fact that someone's name is associated with a company and the company sells a product that could get increased sales from some policy or decision or even suggestion).

Say President Roger suggests to someone that he should probably bleed his brakes before a DE. No one would suggest this is a bad idea, but coming from someone who sells brake fluid (I think) this could be interpreted as a sales pitch. It could even be construed as a way of putting pressure on someone to support his company and if that person buys brake fluid somewhere else, there could be (perceived) implications.

Any vendors on the board should have all of these things in mind as should all of the members when deciding if this is something that should happen.

I, for one, think Roger would make an excellent president as would most of our vendors. But I can clearly see where it would be an even more difficult job for a vendor than it would for someone with no financial dog in the fight.

 

That is exactly the purpose of the 928 OC Technical Library.

With regard to another who questioned why it be closed to members only, it is because without member's fees the programs of the 928 OC will not continue to develop.

 

So the club would have ceased to exist in 7 of the past 9 years because nobody was willing to lead. There wasn't even anybody to run the elections, nor recruit new board members. A founder of the 928 OC said in retrospect, then it should be allowed to fail. I disagreed, and so here we are, with something people are competing to lead.

 

Where is the "great deal of time and energy"?

 

Jim,

Of course the 928 OC appreciates the membership fees, and I have endeavored to use those fees to improve and build the 928 community. As I have said, except for the past 60 days, my efforts were nearly 100% supported.

I have not expected assistance from others. I have done it much of it myself. It is just a few, in the past 60 days, that have complained that not enough has been done. My response to them, is that to do more, more volunteers are needed. To people such as yourself, that are satisfied and appreciative of those who have put the effort in, I do thank you. In fact most of my responses to members includes the phrase "thank you for your support".

I also have reached out to members to promote they run their own events, and I do (correctly) give them all the credit for doing so. You must keep in mind, that it is my effort that created the local event sponsor program. I most certainly understand that the local organizers is what makes those events happen.

I certainly don't forget that the board approves how the money is spent. Perhaps you are unaware that I put that system in place, that I denied the president would have authority to spend money without board approval. I recruited board members that were know throughout the 928 community to ensure members would be comfortable with how their fees were used.

I think you are confusing me with one of the presidential candidates, who says the 928 OC has not done enough, or much. I think it has done quite a bit, and except for the few dissenting voices, who have only voiced their displeasure in the past 60 days, the great majority of the members tell me often that the 928 OC is doing what they want.

I don't complain that people don't step forward. I only defend that we don't do more, as our detractors state we should, due to a lack of volunteers.

 

I am not suggesting it, just trying to get at the root of the tide of opinion.

A lack of other volunteers to step up in the last decade says a lot. Perhaps it says that you have doing great.

Too big to fail.

 

Passionate Porsche enthusiasts.

 

I saw this movie once called "Bridge on the River Kwai". It was about a man who worked as hard as he could to build an extraordinary bridge. Then right at the end, he blew it up, into a million pieces.

 

Actually, if it were relegated to the OC forum non-members would not get to see it. This is by far the widest audience in the 928 community, so it's a natural place to have a wide ranging discussion. I think Sean should go back to post 1 and edit the title to reflect the nature of the discussion.

Now - I will trot out my favorite cliche'; I would never want to be a member of any club who would consider having me as a member. I've been considering joining the 928 now that my car will be back on the road soon(right Sean?). This thread speaks volumes, and is quite the eye-opener into the world of 928OC. I believe the nattering here would rival anything the US Army Aviators Ladies Auxiliary could come up with. I happened to date one of the fine members of that club and the way they would treat each other was jaw-dropping.

So - I hope this thread goes on, and I get to watch the trains as they hurtle down the same track from east and west. Will the engineer see the signal? Will the other engineer realize there is only one track? Will the brakes work in time? These -- are the Days Of Our Lives.

 

Interesting, but sad that so many people let one (or a few) members of an organization determine their opinion of everyone in that organization - whether RennList or the OC.

 

Well, it's like this. My neighbors are generally good folk, and I see them almost every day. We treat each other with a modicum of respect because all of us know that being a dick one day to one neighbor can mean a hassle for quite a while to come. Our neighbors can have a direct effect on each others quality of life, so we take that into account.

However, the mayor or city counselors of a town or city can come in a wreak havoc on my life with zoning changes, road use rules, tax policy, water policy, eminent domain, etc, and all of that **** flowing my way, will not affect the mayor or counselor one iota. In fact, ****ting on me and my little spot may make the mayor's job easier. So - I tend to pay particular attention to the mayor, and the counsel and insure that they don't get some grand idea that the land next to my place would make a good spot for a day care, or a 7/11, or a gas well.

The OC 'leaders' are like the counselors of the 928 world. They create rules, and committees, and all this stuff which makes it harder for enthusiasts to enjoy cars by excluding some segment of the community in order that they set themselves, and their members apart. I mean, why have a club, if you can't restrict the riff-raff from entry? That's the whole concept of club membership and boards of directors, and trustees, and select-men; that those who don't measure up in some way are not worthy to be included.

 

I have never known the 928 Owners Club to refuse or restrict membership to anyone. Have you?

Any member may be nominated to any office - I have never heard of any member refused nomination. Have you?

Any member may nominate any member for any ofice. I have never heard of any member being denied that right. Have you?

Any member may volunteer to work for the club. I have never heard of any member being turned down. Have you?

Who is being excluded?

 

Stan Shaw.

You keep commenting that in the "Last 60 Days" a lot. That there were no complaints before that. You would be mistaken to continue that stance because it is just not true.

There has been a lot of discussion on how to move the club forward since it was brought out that your protege is going to have some competition. James would do a decent job for the club as you have done thus far. What you fail to see is people are wanting a bit more out of the club and the status qua is just not cutting it. Those of us that are pulling for Andrew want to see more from this club, more out of its leaders. Someone who will show up to local events, talk to the people they are "leading". You've done none of that and James hardly shows up the local events held here in Texas. When he does we have to bribe him and stroke his ego to get it to happen. That is not what I want to see out of a person in that position.

You have been a top notch ******* since your plans for James are not going as smoothly as you want them to. When you state things like you have been, some deleted at the OC forum, it makes us see who and what you are. You don't think the OC should have anything to do with the OCIC. Most of the members see that the opposite way. The OC should be putting the OCIC on as it is the Owners Club International Convention. Not just some local gathering. And yes, I've seen in writing where you stated that the OC was missing funds from the OCIC's and your thoughts on where that money went. Do not bull**** these people.

I had a huge amount of respect for you and the OC up to last week and you have acted like a child throwing a temper tantrum since the day Andrews nomination was put forth. You just could not handle the fact that everyone wasn't going to see things your way, go the way you want them to go and now you've tried everything, including banning members from the forums where it was being discussed because they do not see it your way. You have acted like a dictator and a megalomaniac and have had a couple of your forum moderators using intimidation tactics to either shut people up or shut them down.

Those are the reasons there are quite a few who want nothing to do with the OC while you are still around. I will not be renewing my membership until you have stepped away totally and are only there as a resource on a voluntary basis for when people ask you for advice. The drama and bull**** are not worth it. This will be my last post to you about his, unfortunately I can't put you on ignore so you would be unable to post in threads I start like I can on other forums.

 

Wally, I do not presume to speak for Doc, but I think we are sharing a common feeling right now. I would put it like this. I don't have anything against Cubans, but there is no way I would move to Cuba right now.