Rob Edwards

I would not try to do the mains with the engine in-car, you're just asking for trouble. Real Men Pull Engines.


Here's a Dummies list I made for S4+ engine removal.

AO

OCD FTW!

GregBBRD

With 1mm of endplay, you will, most likely, find much more extensive damage than just the bearing inserts. Usually, the crankshaft will have "grabbed" onto the main thrust bearings and will have "spun" them inside the block. Very uncommon to "catch" one of these before this happens and just have damaged bearings. Very common to have both the crankshaft and the block ruined.

James Bailey

As Greg points out there is a high probability that you will be needing to replace the engine so you will need to pull the old one anyway. Sorry to hear you bought someone else's problem.

dr bob

There is a lot of cleanup and WYAIT with having the engine out that it seems foolish to try to do mains with the engine in the car. Stoopid stuff like being able to keep the mating surface block to girdle clean so the sealant will set up correctly. With eteh engine on a stand, new headgaskets would be a must too. Lots of things are just too easy with the engine out. Plus you'll be able to ge a much better look at the thrust bearing area, the bearing saddle and the web above it into the cylinder bore area. A roasted thrust bearing will break that web and ruin the block. On the stand, rolled so the heads are down, cleaned, you'll have a chance to actually inspect for that before you spend on bearings and gaskets. If there is metal in the oil, you'll be negligent if you don't completely disassemble, and flush the block completely to get rid of the debris.


WSM has you feed the FI harness connector out throiugh the firewall. I've never tried just pulling all the connectors on the engine end and laying up on the windshield as AO suggests.

A balancer is a modern necessity when pulling the engine. With a simple spin of the handle. you can adjust the engine tilt as it comes out and goes in. Take lots of pictures, lots of notes on where things come from as you extract and disassemble. Clean everything until you'd be comfortable putting your sandwich down anywhere forward of the firewall. Things like PS hoses, AC plumbing, coolant metal piping, coolant reservoir are all way easy to service/replace with the engine out.

dr bob

The SoCal contingent contributes, all in maybe a ten-minute span.

fbarnhill

Hi, I just rebuilt my entire engine including girdle and mains. Not too tough once you get to it. I found and printed out all the writeups that I could find that related to different tasks. (TB/WP, intake R&R, motor mounts, etc..) Then I printed out the directions from the work shop manuals. It equals out to be a lot of paper. Then I read it all several times the week before starting. Stan the Man is awsome. He spent an hour with me on the phone and I took 3 pages of notes. I hadn't planned on doing the full teardown until I found a small piece of metal in the #6 rod bearing. Have no idea where it came from but I had to look at the mains after that.
I was able to prep and pull the engine by myself. I didn't need help but twice. Once when I got the engine turned too far on the stand while installing the exhaust manifolds and didn't have enough muscle to get her back up straight. Do NOT buy a .5 ton engine stand. These things are way heavier than you think and become quite awkard once the heads gets put back on and you need to spin it. That being said, it was one of the more fun builds I have done. I purchased all of Porken's products with the best being the 32vr timing kit and the bump stick. Degreing the cam was what I was most worried about and turned out to be one of the easiest things thanks to Ken. My biggest problem was that I had a battery charger connected to the battery and tried to start the engine that way. It messed up my computer, and it took me a couple of weeks to figure it out.
The other BIG deal was cleaning everything. I went to harbor freight and bought a 20 gal parts washer for around 100.00. I also bought the enviro friendly cleaner which worked wonders. Cleaning the engine compartment was yet another B&(*&ch. You will need various brushes, rags and simple green or some other type of cleaner.
The other time I needed help was for the re-install of the engine. I used new motor mounts and I had to hold them spread wide enough for the oil pan to pass while my son lowered the engine. Once she was down, it was a done deal. Just put the bolts back in and re-assemble the top end using the writeups. I left the intake off until after installing the engine to make it easier to hook it up to the engine puller and move it around.

Now, a couple of more tips if you don't mind:
1) Take digital pictures of every step from every angle you can find. Don't forget any step. You will love yourself for this one in the end.
2) Powder coating lasts longer, looks better and is less likely to scratch up while re-installing the parts. I couldn't afford it so I painted. Now I am pulling the intake again to re-do the paint.
3) I used an oilpan stud kit from Carl at 928 Motorsports along with a silicone gasket. One of my best decisions.
4) If you read the writeups carefully you will discover that they tell you where to use the adheasives/thread lock stuff. You will need some HondaBond, I think it is called along with some Loctite (574) I think. Someome will correct that I am sure. Sorry , I am old with bad memory. Keep a positive attitude. If you break something or mess something up, instead of getting mad, take a break, order a new part or fix the old and just move on. It is inevetable that Murphy will stick his nose in there somewhere.

Good luck, You are about to get to know your shark better than you ever dreamed possible,

James Bailey

I was waiting for somone else to give the O P the bad news. He just bought the car and was told it ran. Trucker told him it ran poorly and now he has way too much crank end play and we all know there are no options for bearings and what thrust bearing failure really is. Tajk about falling into the deep end of the sharktank !!!

newworld

rob e....thanks for that writeup, just a couple of clarifications if i may, pp=? also i have an auto tranny so clutch? i also assume when you say move tranny back 1 inch, that means, i have to remove tranny mounting bolts and push the torque tube+ tranny back an inch? how essential is this step? if the rad is removed does that give you more space to disconnect and move engine forward?

the reason why i ask is i have removed trannys before, but it involves supporting the tranny etc as i assume tranny is still connected to flex plate. and i am a one man band.

newworld

as for the 1mm endplay, as i mentioned that i definitely get a pretty noticeable movement in the flywheel. .4mm endplay is barely a movement. however, my understanding is that the thrust bearing face has 2.3?mm or so on each side according to what i have read. i understand that the bearing may spin as well.

before doing this procedure, do you all recommend i remove the oil pan....or based on what is mentioned just get to the pull, as i assume placing a clamp on it and driving it is not an option.

also, if the girdle and crank are toast, then should i get by with just a short block, or does everyone recommend a whole new engine? i have an 87.

17prospective buyer

Use the WSM... it explains everything you need to do. The most tricky parts for me were getting the damn clutch out, removing the bellhousing to engine block bolts, and getting the motor out (very limited clearances between the fenders). I ended up taking the motor out with the bellhousing attached, i couldn't get the 2 upper bolts out if i tried. There is a heavy duty clamp for the starter/charging circuit wires, it is clamped to the drivers side of the crossmember. Right in front of the steering gear case. It won't really be exposed until the engine is lifted several inches.

Be prepared to do alot more work and spend alot more money than you anticipated. I bet you will look in the engine bay and say "well, the engine is out now, might as well do this, this, this, this, and this".

AFAIK the max endplay tolerated in the manual is 0.040", my motor had 0.015. Correct me if i am wrong (usually/probably am). To check it you should use the tool for the job.

GregBBRD

Depends on how "far along" the damage is. If the crnakshaft has contacted the "webs" inside the block, the bottom of the oil pan will be covered with with that debris, in a 1/4" thick deposit of thick aluminum/oil "goo".

This debris goes everywhere....inside the lifters, inside the passages in the heads, etc.

Huge clean-up job.

Some find it easier to start with a completely different engine.....and currently, there are still enough of these engines sitting around to be able to do that.

newworld

that makes a lot of sense. as an expert on the subject, do the short blocks mate well with any year? i.e. if you get a short block from an 88 its ok for an 87 or even later years? i understand metal expands and contracts, and as a professional, taking apart an engine aside from contamination that you mentioned slurry etc..... are there fitting issues as the short block from a different engine not work in a different engine?

GregBBRD

Not sure exactly how to answer your question.

All of the engines made from 1987 to 1995 will fit into your vehicle and bolt onto your torque tube. The 1992 and later engines are 5.4 liters....but there is little chance of you "finding one of those sitting around". All have all the same fuel and water connections, etc. All of the heads have combustion chambers the same size and freely interchange to any of the 1987 to 1995 short blocks. There are some dimension differences in the head "construction", starting in 1989...but the difference is compensated by a different length head bolt.

In short, you could buy a short block from any 1987-1991 928 and bolt all your "cleaned" pieces onto it, and use your same electronics. You could also buy a complete engine from any of those years and it would interchange as a complete unit.

newworld

rob e....when you say pull exhaust in your list, that means from manifold? one of the things that hang me up are bolts that are hard to remove and then break in situ....i would much rather remove them after the engine is out etc.

breaking the rusted downpipe flange bolts are fine as they then can be easily forced out. breaking a bolt in the block is another story completely.