mnotz

Sorry for the hijack, and I am really scared to post this, since I don't want to cause another never ending oil thread blow up all over the place, but oh well, here it goes ;-)

I've used Valvoline VR1 20w50 in my sharks and had no problems whatsoever with it. Then again, I am more than religious with 3,000 mile (max) /6 month (max) changes, don't race the sharks and don't put a ton of miles on them. It's dino oil with a decent amount of zinc and I have it available "around the corner" from me, which are the main reasons why I run it. Any opinions? Just wondering if I should switch to something else or go with what I've been doing...

--Marcus

GlenL

I've recently put Valvoline VR-1 straight 50W in an older Amrican V8 to get the ZDDP content. Seems like a good choice for lower cost ($6/qt) and local availability. I was going to get some Brad Penn but couldn't see waiting for a shipment and going with that cost.

Seems like a good choice for street driven 928s with a selection of heavier weights and then straight weights for hot climates.

Opinions?

(And nothing better than bumping an oil thread...unless it's torque or gears.)

curtisr

This from Lindsey Racing where you can purchase ZDDPlus additive (and I do):

ZDDPlus™ contains the exact concentration (approximately 0.15%) of ZDDP (Zinc DialkylDithioPhosphate) that was available in motor oils under the “SF” category.
The motor oils today carry the “SM” category designation.

Today car manufacturers must warranty their catalytic converters for 100,000 miles or more. In order to meet this requirement, oil companies have had to eliminate the ZDDP older muscle cars need to protect their flat-tappet cams.

ZDDP is not an issue of concern for modern vehicles with roller rockers. The issue arises with older performance cars with flat-tappet camshafts.

ZDDP has been an important additive in engine oils for over 70 years and has had an excellent track record at protecting the sliding metal-to-metal cam lifter interface. ZPPD protects by creating a film on the cams and flat lifter contact points in response to the extreme pressure and heat at the contact point.

The company behind this project has a huge car collection centered around 1986-1987 Buick Turbo Regal (Grand Nationals). It was developed to protect these car engines and other classic and performance engines (cars, trucks, tractors, motorcycles, boats, etc.)

ZDDPlus™ has been tested and compared to many of the other available additives on the market today by labs specializing in oil testing. If any of the other products contains the proper 0.15%, it would clearly have to indicate on the bottle that it is NOT meant for OBD II cars. Adding the proper amount of ZDDPlus™ to your regular oil or synthetic oil provides you with peace of mind.

While it’s true oil has vastly improved over the years, the amounts of ZDDP required for the older muscle cars has greatly diminished. This concentrate will mix with any oil you are currently using; synthetic or regular. It has a long shelf life, as long as it is stored in its sealed container and temperatures stay under 120 degrees.

DID YOU KNOW MODERN OIL HAS CHANGED?

After 70+ years of trouble-free, metal-to-metal engine protection, the E.P.A. and car manufacturers are forcing ZDDP (Zinc DialkylDithioPhosphate = zinc and phosphorus) from domestic motor oil because of the warranties on catalytic converters.
If your engine was designed prior to the 1990s, the non-roller lifters (flat-tappet cams) require ZDDP in the motor oil to avoid premature deterioration. Don’t let the lifters run metal-to-metal. Keep ZDDP, via ZDDPlus™, in your car’s motor oil. Add a 4 oz bottle of ZDDPlus™ to every 4- to 5-quart oil change. Just one bottle of ZDDPlus™ bring the current available “SM” oil (synthetic or conventional) back to the “SF” specifications.

One bottle of ZDDPlus™ contains more ZDDP than two bottles of GM’s EOS.

Safe, proven ZDDP EP agent takes the worry out of using new oil formulas in classic engines.

Restores ZDDP to the optimum level which existed when your classic car or muscle car was new.

Turns modern SM quality oil into the ideal oil for older cars, trucks, tractors, motorcycles, boats, etc.

Compatible with ALL high-quality oils, standard or synthetic. You choose your own type of oil.

Reduces cam and lifter wear in high-performance flat-tappet engines compared to a SM rated oil.

One 4 oz. bottle of ZDDPlus™ per oil change with SM oil is more economical than 5 quarts of exotic oil.

ZDDPLUS™ ELIMINATES USING:

Diesel oil with incorrect viscosity or detergent.
Racing oils formulated with little or no detergent.
Break-in oil supplements for daily driving.
There is nothing in ZDDPlus™ that was not originally in motor oil back in 1988 and prior.

CAUTION - ONLY USE IN CARS PRIOR TO OBD II CARS



...

ptuomov

I am going to post some links to some test data below.

However, before I do that, let me just clarify what oil I think one should use. It is my understanding that the whole additives package matters. There's no way to just look at one number and to say that this oil will work. For example, I don't know that when people say "don't use thin oils" whether they really know it's the thin oil or just that the thin oils don't have the right additives package. The only way to figure out what works and what doesn't is a wear test, which for us means observing other people's failures and successes. My personal recommendation is to use oils that have shown good wear results for others and that haven't changed the additive package recently in a dramatic way. In other words, whatever works, works.

With that said, some interesting reading:
http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30483
http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31363
http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32279

GlenL

VERY interesting. Thank you for the links.

Looks like the VR-1 regular oil is a good choice.

jheis

Some one forgot to say que MK....

ptuomov

I found the last link most interesting, saying that zinc is something that you need very little but it gets depleted so high zinc oils don't offer better protection new but last longer.

Since it also has some interesting bits about using "diesel" oils in gas engines, I figured I'll just consume some bits and post the whole thing here. It's one expert's opinion:

---

http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32279

Diesel Oil “Lab Test” and “Wear Test” Results
by 540 RAT » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:33 pm

Before we get into the eye-opening Diesel oil test data, let’s take a look at some fundamental aspects of motor oil wear protection, so that we are all on the same page. The amount of misinformation and misunderstanding about motor oil is absolutely mind boggling, even though the basic technology of motor oil is NOT Rocket Science. It is simply unbelievable how much COMPLETELY WRONG information is out there on the Internet and on the various Forums.

And of course once wrong information has been repeated countless times, it becomes fact as far as most people know, even though it is completely worthless. But, you really can't blame folks for not knowing any better. Because in addition to a ton of bad information being out there, motor oil advertising hype is often misleading or downright false, almost no one ever tests anything to know for sure what is true and what is not, aftermarket companies sell bogus oil additive products, including zinc additives, that only wreck an oil’s chemical properties, and any test data outside of the oil companies themselves, is virtually impossible to find ANYWHERE……………until now.

If you are interested in seeing the FACTS from real world independent and unbiased Engineering Test Data on motor oil, then the information below is for you. At the end of this write-up, I’ve also included a motor oil “Wear Test” ranking sheet for anyone to use, who might be interested. You can choose any oil from that list, and know exactly how it compares to other oils in terms of wear protection.

“THE” single most common misunderstanding about motor oil is that higher zinc levels provide better wear protection. That has been repeated over and over again so many times over the years, that people just assume it is correct. But the fact is, that thinking is COMPLETELY FALSE.

Here are the FACTS:

Zinc is used/sacrificed in very small quantities at time, so the total amount present in your oil does not change how much wear protection the oil provides, as long as you don't run out of zinc. “Lab Testing” and “Wear Testing” analysis proves/confirms that more zinc provides LONGER wear protection, NOT MORE wear protection. This is not a new discovery. In fact, Ed Hackett wrote an article some years ago, titled “More than you ever wanted to know about Motor Oil”. And in that article he says the exact same thing, so it’s been well known for a long time. You can Google his article if you like, and see for yourself.

An analogy for the zinc level in motor oil would be the amount of gas in your tank. Gas is also used in very small quantities at a time. So, if you have a quarter of a tank or a full tank, it does NOT change how much power your engine makes, as long as you don't run out of gas. More gas provides LONGER running time, NOT more power. It’s the same type of idea regarding the amount of zinc in motor oil.

Zinc is used as an extreme pressure, anti-wear additive. But, zinc “DOES NOT” build-up over time like some type of plating process. For those who have actually taken an engine apart that has been running high zinc oil, you know that you don’t find a build-up of zinc that looks like some sort of coating or sludge build-up. Zinc does NOT work that way. And zinc is not even a lubricant until heat and load are applied. Zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine. At that point zinc must react with the heat and load to create the sacrificial film that allows it to protect flat-tappet camshafts and other highly loaded engine parts.

So, with zinc being sacrificial, it will become depleted over time as it is used up. This has been proven/confirmed by analysis of new and used oil lab test results. And the literature from the “ZDDPlus” zinc additive folks says the exact same thing, if you’d also like to see it there. On top of that, excessively HIGH zinc levels can lead to INCREASED wear/damage and cast iron erosion. There is such a thing as "too much of a good thing".

So, you really don’t want or need a ton of zinc. You simply need “enough” so that you don’t run out of it with your particular application, that’s all. And this is precisely the reason why the motor oil “wear testing” I’ve been performing, has ALWAYS shown that the level of zinc does NOT affect how well an oil can provide wear protection. I’ve had many HIGH zinc oils, as well as many modern LOW zinc oils, produce outstanding results in the wear testing. I’ve also had HIGH zinc oils as well as LOW zinc oils that produced only modest results in the wear testing.

And this brings us to the second most common misunderstanding about motor oil, which is that modern API certified motor oils cannot provide adequate wear protection for flat tappet cam lobe/lifter interfaces. This has also been repeated over and over again so many times over the years, that people just assume it is correct. But the fact is, that thinking is also COMPLETELY FALSE.

Wear protection is determined only by the base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, and NOT just by how much zinc is present. There is nothing magical or sacred about zinc. It is just one of a number of motor oil additive package components that can be used for extreme pressure anti-wear purposes. The other components that are typically Oil Company proprietary secrets, can be added to, or used in place of zinc. And most modern API SM and SN certified oils have shown in my wear testing to be quite good when it comes to providing wear protection, and have even EXCEEDED the protection provided by many high zinc oils.

So, modern low zinc oils CAN BE USED SAFELY with flat tappet cam setups, even in engines with radical cams and high spring pressures. Simply choose from the higher ranked oils on the list at the end of this write-up, and you'll be good to go. I know people who've been using modern low zinc oils in High Performance flat tappet set-ups for a long time, and they've had no issue at all.

On a side note:
Whatever you do, DO NOT add aftermarket zinc additives to low zinc oils, no matter how much snake oil the makers throw out there. Because I did testing on this exact situation and found that adding zinc to low zinc oils, ruins an oil's chemical properties and SIGNIFICANTLY reduces its wear protection capability. The Oil Companies always say to "never add anything" to their oil. Believe them, because they know what they are talking about. After all, they are the experts on their own products.

So, back to the topic at hand:
Just looking at an oil’s spec sheet to see how much zinc is present, tells you ABOLUTLELY NOTHING about how well that oil can provide wear protection. To only look at the zinc level to try and predict an oil’s wear protection capability would be much like looking at your gas gauge to predict how much power your engine will make. That kind of thinking simply makes no sense at all. So, throw away that useless motor oil zinc quantity reference list. In other words, forget about zinc. The ONLY THING that matters, and the ONLY WAY to tell how well an oil can prevent wear, is to perform some type of dynamic WEAR TESTING that is done at representative temperatures. And that is exactly what I’ve done here.

The test equipment used here to perform this kind of testing, focuses on an oil’s “load carrying capacity or film strength”, and for good reason. THE single most CRITICAL capability of any motor oil is its film strength. Everything else it does for your engine comes AFTER that. Here’s why. When oil is down to a very thin film, it is the last line of defense against metal to metal contact and subsequent wear or damage. And oil film strength capability DIRECTLY APPLIES to flat tappet lobe/lifter interfaces, cam gear/distributor gear interfaces, mechanical fuel pump pushrod tip/cam eccentric interfaces and other highly loaded engine component interfaces. The higher an oil’s film strength, the better your engine is protected in these areas.

Oil film strength capability also DIRECTLY APPLIES to cold start-up conditions. In this case, only an oil film remains on most internal engine components, because most of the oil drained off after hot shut down. And it’s no secret that nearly all wear occurs during start-up when there can be a couple of seconds or even more, depending on the oil viscosity being used and the ambient air temperature, before a flow of oil reaches all the components. Before oil flow reaches the components, all you have saving your engine from wear or damage, is the remaining oil’s film strength. That makes it another very important reason why an excellent film strength is highly desirable.

When Amsoil refers to wear scar size comparisons on their website, they are referencing oil film strength test data. A couple of years or so ago, when Castrol Edge and Valvoline SynPower ads talked about their oils providing better wear protection than Mobil 1, they were referencing oil film strength test data. Pennzoil Ultra currently advertises that no leading synthetic oil provides better wear protection, and they also reference oil film strength test data. The bottom line is that oil film strength testing and the resulting data, is the “Gold Standard” in the motor oil industry, regarding wear protection.

There is no additional value to performing more “comprehensive” oil testing related to wear prevention. Because when an oil is thicker than a mere film, it becomes LIQUID oil. And LIQUIDS are INCOMPRESSIBLE, which of course is how hydraulics work. But, that refers to 100% PURE LIQUID with no air bubbles what so ever. And the nature of liquids being “incompressible”, is a basic FACT of Physics.

So, since liquid oil CANNOT be compressed, there can be NO metal to metal contact, THUS NO WEAR OR DAMAGE. This means that ALL oils when in “incompressible liquid form”, provide the SAME level of wear protection. And it does not matter if they cost one dollar per quart, or twenty dollars per quart. Nor does it matter how much zinc/phos is present.

For example, the normal flow of oil between the crank journals and rod or main bearings, is "liquid" oil. And the "liquid" oil in that hydrodynamic wedge is incompressible, just like any liquid is. For a crank journal to ever touch the bearings, the oil has to be reduced to only a film, and that film has to be PENETRATED. Because of course, to achieve metal to metal contact, and thus wear/damage, you have to go THROUGH the oil’s film strength to get there.

If conditions cause a flow of liquid oil to be squeezed out of the way, you are right back to being left with only an oil film, and the need for good film strength. And this is PRECISELY why we perform OIL FILM STRENGTH testing. The ONLY thing that separates one oil from another oil, in terms of wear prevention, is the DIFFERENCE between their film strength capabilities. So, if an oil has sufficient film strength capability, then you are good to go when it comes to wear protection, no matter how much zinc is present.

The tester used here, was never intended to reflect exactly what goes on inside a running engine. It was designed to test “oil against oil”, nothing else. So, the whole point of my “wear testing” was to test oils directly against each other, head to head, back to back, at a representative operating temperature. Then see how they stacked up against each other.

For example, if oil "A" has a 110,000 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength” (no matter how much zinc is present) in this test, and oil "B" has only a 65,000 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength” (no matter how much zinc is present) in this test, it’s not hard to understand the fact that oil "A" with its WHOPPING 70% HIGHER CAPABILITY, will provide a MUCH HIGHER level of reserve wear protection in a running engine as well (no matter how much zinc is present).

My testing performs severe torture testing on motor oil, which is much harder on the oil, than what the oil will ever experience inside any running engine. This is a dynamic friction test under load, and the test results are determined by the size of the wear scar. And how good an oil is at preventing wear, high zinc or low zinc, is determined in a fair and straight forward manner. The numbers come out how they come out, depending on the capability of the oil.

All of the oils are tested at a representative normal operating oil temperature of 230*F, to make the comparison meaningful. By testing in this manner, it absolutely shows which oils are better at preventing wear than others. This real world test comparison allows you to test a large number of oils EXACTLY THE SAME, under controlled and repeatable conditions, which you simply cannot do in a running engine. And you can see how they compare right away, without having to wait for 100,000 miles to find out what happened. With this testing methodology, you can quickly and easily distinguish between outstanding oils and merely ordinary oils.

The whole thing simply comes down to what is called "margin of safety" or extra reserve protection capability. Let's say the lowest ranked oil has a 20% margin of safety relative to your engine's needs, which means that the oil’s capability "exceeds" your engine's needs by 20%. So, you are in good shape and you will never see a problem. But, if something bad happens like an overheating condition, or an oiling condition, or a loading condition, or some parts heading south, or whatever, and your oil protection requirements increase to say 50% above your engine’s typical needs. Now you've just exceeded the oil’s capability by a whopping 30%, and your engine is junk. But, what if you'd been running an oil that had a whopping 70% margin of safety to begin with? In this case, when your engine’s needs went up 50%, but you still have another 20% capability above that. So, your engine would still live to fight another day.

So, in the end, it just depends on how much margin of safety an individual is comfortable with for his particular engine combo. I'm one of those guys who runs a block, crank, pistons, rods, etc, that are capable of handling WAY more power than my weenie 800ish HP, 540 BBC will ever make. I simply feel better about having a LARGE margin of safety everywhere I can. And I'm the same way when it comes to the oil I run. So, I've chosen the oil with the highest wear protection capability, even though the oil with the lowest capability might work well enough under most circumstances. And that's whole point of all my oil testing, having the data to make an informed choice when it comes to choosing the best motor oil.

I did this testing only for my own knowledge, because there is so much misinformation and misunderstanding about motor oil. But, I do NOT sell oil, and I do NOT get paid by any oil company. So, it doesn't matter to me what oil people buy, or why they buy, the oil they buy. That being the case, I have absolutely no reason to try to make one oil seem better than another. On the contrary, I'm only interested in seeing how they TRULY differ.

So, there is no Snake Oil pitch going on here. And I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, I'm only sharing my test data results. People can embrace my data or ignore it. That of course is totally up to them. So, run whatever oil you like, but now you’ll have the data to see how oils rank, relative to each other.

NOTE: A motor oil’s “load carrying capacity/film strength” capability is NOT the same thing as slipperiness or friction reduction. Therefore, this type of test data says nothing at all about the amount of Horsepower one oil will make vs another.


DIESEL OIL TESTING


I always found it a bit curious that some folks would use Diesel oil in High Performance gasoline engines, rather than the more obvious high quality gas engine oils. I assumed they figured that Diesel oils had higher zinc levels which most folks "mistakenly thought" was needed. Or maybe they figured if that oil works well for hard working Diesel engines, then it should work for their gas engines as well. But, other than some lab test reports showing zinc quantities, I haven’t seen much real data on any of that.

Is it possible that the Diesel oil fans somehow know more than the Oil Companies' Chemical Engineers and Chemists? But, based on only a casual overview, the value of using Diesel oil in gas engines seemed to be mostly just folklore that had been repeated over and over, without any real data to support that. So, since I’ve been performing a lot of motor oil testing this year, I thought is was time to do some extensive testing on Diesel oil, to see once and for all, just what the Diesel oil hype is all about.

So, finally, on with the Diesel Oil test data:


*** First I’d like to thank Mic (64 CDNSS on the Chevelle Forum) for being good enough to provide an unopened bottle of the “OLD” Rotella T Diesel oil, which many folks consider the Holy Grail of Diesel oils, and that it is the standard by which all other Diesel oils are judged. Without this oil’s numbers, we would have never known how the old and new Diesel oils compare.

*** The higher the psi result, the higher the “Load carrying capacity/Film strength”, and the better the oil is at preventing wear.

*** All oils were tested at 230* F (representative of actual running temperature).

*** Multiple tests were performed on each oil, and those results were averaged to arrive at each oil's final value shown below.

*** Test Result differences between oils of less than 10%, are not significant, and oils within that range can be considered approximately equivalent.

*** All oil bottles were thoroughly shaken before the samples were taken. This ensured that all the additive package components were distributed uniformly throughout all the oil in the bottle, and not settled to the bottom.

*** All the oils here are current new oils, recently purchased, except for the unopened OLD Rotella T mentioned above.

*** The onset of "Thermal Breakdown" is determined by the temperature at which the oil begins to smoke/vaporize. This indicates that the lighter components in the oil are beginning to boil off, which changes the oil's chemical composition for the worse. Always keep your oil below the point of thermal breakdown. If your oil does get too hot, then change it at your earliest convenience.

*** Lab Testing for component quantities shown below, was performed by ALS Tribology (formerly Staveley Labs) in Sparks, Nevada.

*** Diesel engine oils have C-type API certification rating designations. The “C” is in reference to “C”ompression ignition engines.
Gas engine oils have S-type API certification rating designations. The “S” is in reference to “S”park ignition engines.

Here are the 13 Diesel Oils that were tested. And they are ranked in the order of their “Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” values:

1. RED LINE, 15W40 Diesel Oil, synthetic, API CJ-4/CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CF/CH-4/CF-4/SM/SL/SH/EO-O
“Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” = 85,663 psi
zinc = 1615 ppm
phos = 1551 ppm
moly = 173 ppm
total detergent/dispersant/anti-deposit build-up/anti-sludge = 2999 ppm
TBN = 8.3
The onset of thermal breakdown is approximately 285*

2. ROYAL PURPLE, 15W40 Diesel Oil, synthetic, API CJ-4 /SM, CI-4 PLUS, CH-4, CI-4
“Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” = 76,997 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
total detergent/dispersant/anti-deposit build-up/anti-sludge = TBD TBN = TBD
The onset of thermal breakdown is approximately 265*

3. MOBIL 1 TURBO DIESEL TRUCK, 5W40 synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4 and ACEA E7
“Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” = 74,312 psi
zinc = 1211 ppm
phos = 1168 ppm
moly = 2 ppm
total detergent/dispersant/anti-deposit build-up/anti-sludge = 1596 ppm
TBN = 9.3
The onset of thermal breakdown is approximately 270*

4. CHEVRON DELO 400LE, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, SM, SL, “Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” = 73,520 psi
zinc = 1519 ppm
phos = 1139 ppm
moly = 80 ppm
total detergent/dispersant/anti-deposit build-up/anti-sludge = 2205 ppm
TBN = 8.0
The onset of thermal breakdown is approximately 265*

5. MOBIL DELVAC 1300 SUPER, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4/SM, SL , “Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” = 73,300 psi
zinc = 1297 ppm
phos = 944 ppm
moly = 46 ppm
total detergent/dispersant/anti-deposit build-up/anti-sludge = 1843 ppm
TBN = 9.8
The onset of thermal breakdown is approximately 250*

6. Farm Rated 15W40 Heavy Duty Performance Diesel, conventional, API CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SL, SJ
“Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” = 73,176 psi
zinc = 1325 ppm
phos = 1234 ppm
moly = 2 ppm
total detergent/dispersant/anti-deposit build-up/anti-sludge = 1593 ppm
TBN = 9.3
The onset of thermal breakdown is approximately 255*

7. SHELL ROTELLA T, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4,CF/SM
“Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” = 72,022 psi
zinc = 1454 ppm
phos = 1062 ppm
moly = 0 ppm
total detergent/dispersant/anti-deposit build-up/anti-sludge = 2886 ppm
TBN = 9.1
The onset of thermal breakdown is approximately 250*
NOTE: This new Rotella T has SIGNIFICANTLY MORE zinc than the OLD Rotella T, NOT LESS as is often claimed. And these two Rotella oils were Lab tested more than a month apart. So, their component quantities had no chance of being mixed up. This new Rotella’s wear protection capability is just slightly BETTER than the OLD Rotella. Therefore, the new Rotella is NOT the junk some have claimed.

8. “OLD” SHELL ROTELLA T, 15W40 conventional, API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4,CG-4,CF-4,CF,SL, SJ, SH
“Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” = 71,214 psi
zinc = 1171 ppm
phos = 1186 ppm
moly = 0 ppm
total detergent/dispersant/anti-deposit build-up/anti-sludge = 2715 ppm
TBN = 10.1
The onset of thermal breakdown is approximately 250*
NOTE: There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING special about this OLD Rotella, as so many have always claimed. That was only folklore. It is simply ordinary Diesel oil.

9. VALVOLINE PREMIUM BLUE HEAVY DUTY DIESEL, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM
“Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” = 70,869 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
total detergent/dispersant/anti-deposit build-up/anti-sludge = TBD
TBN = TBD
The onset of thermal breakdown is approximately 255*

10. CHEVRON DELO 400LE, 5W40 synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, SL, SM,
“Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” = 69,631 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
total detergent/dispersant/anti-deposit build-up/anti-sludge = TBD
TBN = TBD
The onset of thermal breakdown is approximately 255*

11. SHELL ROTELLA T6, 5W40 synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4/SM
“Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” = 67,804 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
total detergent/dispersant/anti-deposit build-up/anti-sludge = TBD
TBN = TBD
The onset of thermal breakdown is approximately 260*

12. LUCAS 15W40 MAGNUM Diesel Oil, conventional, API CI-4,CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SL
“Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” = 66,476 psi
zinc = 1441 ppm
phos = 1234 ppm
moly = 76 ppm
total detergent/dispersant/anti-deposit build-up/anti-sludge = 3393 ppm
TBN = 11.7
The onset of thermal breakdown is approximately 250*

13. CASTROL GTX DIESEL, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4/SN
“Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” = 66,323 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
total detergent/dispersant/anti-deposit build-up/anti-sludge TBD
TBN = TBD
The onset of thermal breakdown is approximately 265*

The average value for Thermal Breakdown among the conventional Diesel oils here, was 255*, which is 17* LOWER than among the conventional gas engine oils I've tested.

The average value for Thermal Breakdown among the synthetic Diesel oils here, was 267*, which is 15* LOWER than among the synthetic gas engine oils I've tested.

And as you can see with these Diesel oils above, zinc levels alone do NOT establish their wear prevention ranking. The zinc levels are randomly up and down, relative to the ranking order. And as you will see in the complete 61 motor oil ranking list below, zinc levels clearly have NOTHING to do with an oil's protection capability or ranking order. Also, anyone who has followed my motor oil testing this year, probably noticed that these Diesel oil “Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” psi values are rather low, with an average value for the whole group of only 72,408 psi. This number would put an oil for gasoline engines, only in the MODEST PROTECTION category (60,000 to 75,000 psi). And individually, Red Line, the top ranked Diesel oil, ranks only 33rd out of 61 oils I’ve tested so far. The Red Line and Royal Purple, are the only Diesel oils to even make it into the GOOD PROTECTION category (75,000 to 90,000 psi) for use in gasoline engines. Overall that’s not very impressive to say the least, when you consider how wonderful many people “thought” Diesel oil was.

And considering that these oils are intended for use in heavy duty working Diesel engines as used in big rigs, bulldozers, locomotives, etc, etc, you probably expected to see some rather impressive psi numbers. But, if you were expecting that, you were obviously disappointed and maybe even shocked.

The oil testing equipment and the test procedure used here, were working perfectly fine, with no issue at all. In fact, in the middle of testing all these Diesel oils, I performed what you might call a calibration check, by re-testing once again, the number one ranked gas engine oil, the 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM, to see if its numbers would be reproduced within the normal variation range. And in this re-test, it produced numbers that were only a few percent different from its original posted value of 115,612 psi, which put that oil in the OUTSTANDING PROTECTION category (Over 90,000 psi). So, the test equipment and procedure are still right on the money. Therefore, these Diesel oil psi numbers are absolutely correct, and simply are what they are. So, what’s going on here?

Obviously since all these diesel oil numbers are so closely clustered together with only about a 20,000 psi range (compared to the gas engine oil numbers which have a much larger range of almost 60,000 psi), it is clear that the oil companies intentionally formulated them to be in this general range. Why would they do that? How can that be good enough for these hard working diesel engines?

Diesel engines of this type are made very rugged and very durable for the long haul. And in order to accomplish that, the engine’s components are designed and sized to keep the part loading at a modest level. And of course, these engines are known primarily for their impressive low end torque under boost, but NOT for their high rpm HP. All that being the case, these oils don’t need to have a higher capability. And this type of Diesel engine typically takes a LOT OF OIL. So, cost becomes a real factor when changing oil. This means that no oil company is going to make their products way better than needed, because that would make their products too expensive to be competitive in the marketplace.

And no one can complain that my test equipment and test procedure do not allow high zinc oils to perform at their highest level. Because here are some high zinc (over 1100 ppm) conventional, semi-synthetic, and full synthetic gasoline engine oils that I’ve tested previously. And they all had test results over 90,000 psi, which put them in the “OUTSTANDING PROTECTION” category for gasoline engines.


10W30 Lucas Racing Only, full synthetic = 106,505 psi
zinc = 2642 ppm
phos = 3489 ppm
moly = 1764 ppm


10W30 Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) Conventional Racing Oil = 103,846 psi
zinc = 1669 ppm
phos = 1518 ppm
moly = 784 ppm


10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
phos = 1544 ppm
moly = 3 ppm


10W30 Valvoline VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil, API SL (black bottle) = 101,139 psi
zinc = 1180 ppm
phos = 1112 ppm
moly = 162 ppm


30 wt Red Line Race Oil, full synthetic = 96,470 psi
zinc = 2207 ppm
phos = 2052 ppm
moly = 1235 ppm


10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil, full synthetic = 95,360 psi
zinc = 1431 ppm
phos = 1441 ppm
moly = 52 ppm


10W30 Quaker State Defy, API SL (semi-synthetic) = 90,226 psi
zinc = 1221 ppm
phos = 955 ppm
moly = 99 ppm

SUMMARY
Thermal Breakdown BEGINS SOONER with Diesel oil, than with gas engine oils, which is not desirable for High Performance gas engine usage. And as you can see by looking at this short list of “high zinc” gas engine oils, or by looking at the complete ranking list below, there are many, many gas engine oils available that are FAR SUPERIOR to the best Diesel oils in terms of wear protection. Therefore, using Diesel oils in high performance gas engines is NOT the best choice, if you want superior wear protection with plenty of margin of safety (extra reserve wear protection above what the engine typically needs).

For those who have used Diesel oil in High Performance gas engines for years without issue, you were able to do that only because the wear protection required by the engines, never happened to exceed the oil’s capability. But, you were clearly running a MUCH LOWER margin of safety than you would have been, if you’d used a much more capable gas engine oil instead. So, if you've been using Diesel oil in High Performance gas engines, you may want to rethink what you've been doing and consider upgrading to one of the far better gas engine oils.

CONCLUSION
The bottom line is that the end user does NOT know more about motor oil than the Oil Companies' Chemical Engineers and Chemists. So, the BEST choice is to use only quality gas engine oil in High Performance gas engines. These oils offer MUCH HIGHER wear protection capability and can withstand somewhat higher temperatures before the onset of Thermal Breakdown. Leave the less capable Diesel oils for use only in Diesel engines, where they are meant to be used.

For your convenient reference, here is a complete ranking list of the 61 oils that I’ve “Wear Tested” so far:

*** The higher the psi result, the higher the “Load carrying capacity/Film strength”, and the better the oil is at preventing wear.

*** All oils were tested at 230* F (representative of actual running temperature).

*** Multiple tests were performed on each oil, and those results were averaged to arrive at each oil's final value shown below.

*** Test Result differences between oils of less than 10%, are not significant, and oils within that range can be considered approximately equivalent.

*** All oil bottles were thoroughly shaken before the samples were taken. This ensured that all the additive package components were distributed uniformly throughout all the oil in the bottle, and not settled to the bottom.

*** All oils are full synthetic unless otherwise specified.

*** All oils are suitable for street use unless otherwise specified.

*** Lower ranked oils are not necessarily bad at all. They simply don’t offer as much reserve wear protection (margin of safety) as higher ranked oils.


Oil categories for gasoline engines:

*** Over 90,000 psi = OUTSTANDING protection

*** 75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD protection

*** 60,000 to 75,000 psi = MODEST protection

*** Below 60,000 psi = UNACCEPTABLE protection



********** OUTSTANDING PROTECTION Over 90,000 psi ************


1. 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM = 115,612 psi
I have not been able to find this oil with the latest API SN certification. The bottle says, “No leading synthetic oil provides better wear protection”. For once, a product’s hype turns out to be true.
zinc = 806 ppm
phos = 812 ppm
moly = 66 ppm

2. 10W30 Lucas Racing Only = 106,505 psi
zinc = 2642 ppm
phos = 3489 ppm
moly = 1764 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

3. 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN = 105,875 psi
zinc = 801 ppm
phos = 842 ppm
moly = 112 ppm

4. 0W30 Amsoil Signature Series 25,000 miles, API SN = 105,008 psi
zinc = 824 ppm
phos = 960 ppm
moly = 161 ppm


******* 10% below number 1 = 104,051 psi ********


5. 10W30 Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) Conventional Racing Oil = 103,846 psi
zinc = 1669 ppm
phos = 1518 ppm
moly = 784 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

6. 5W50 Motorcraft, API SN = 103,517 psi
zinc = 606 ppm
phos = 742 ppm
moly = 28 ppm

7. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
phos = 1544 ppm
moly = 3 ppm

8. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil, API SL (black bottle) = 101,139 psi
zinc = 1180 ppm
phos = 1112 ppm
moly = 162 ppm

9. 5W30 Chevron Supreme conventional, API SN = 100,011 psi
This one only costs $4.29 per quart at the Auto Parts Store where I bought it.
zinc = 1018 ppm
phos = 728 ppm
moly = 161 ppm

10. 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN = 99,983 psi
zinc = 1042 ppm
phos = 857 ppm
moly = 100 ppm
titanium = 49 ppm


11. 20W50 Castrol GTX conventional, API SN = 96,514 psi
zinc = 610 ppm
phos = 754 ppm
moly = 94 ppm

12. 30 wt Red Line Race Oil = 96,470 psi
zinc = 2207 ppm
phos = 2052 ppm
moly = 1235 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

13. 0W20 Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy, API SN = 96,364 psi
zinc = 742 ppm
phos = 677 ppm
moly = 81 ppm

14. 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN = 95,920 psi
zinc = 877 ppm
phos = 921 ppm
moly = 72 ppm

15. 5W30 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN = 95,717 psi
zinc = 818 ppm
phos = 883 ppm
moly = 90 ppm
titanium = 44 ppm

16. 10W30 Joe Gibbs XP3 NASCAR Racing Oil = 95,543 psi
zinc = 743 ppm
phos = 802 ppm
moly = 1125 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

17. 5W20 Castrol GTX conventional, API SN = 95,543 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
NOTE: Oil numbers 16 and 17 were tested weeks apart, but due to the similarities in their wear scar sizes, their averages ended up the same.

18. 5W30 Castrol GTX conventional, API SN = 95,392 psi
zinc = 830 ppm
phos = 791 ppm
moly = 1 ppm

19. 10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil = 95,360 psi
zinc = 1431 ppm
phos = 1441 ppm
moly = 52 ppm

20. 5W30 Valvoline SynPower, API SN = 94,942 psi
zinc = 969 ppm
phos = 761 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

21. 5W30 Valvoline Premium Conventional, API SN = 94,744 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

22. 5W20 Mobil 1, API SN = 94,663 psi
zinc = 764 ppm
phos = 698 ppm
moly = 76 ppm

23. 5W20 Valvoline SynPower, API SN = 94,460 psi
zinc = 1045 ppm
phos = 742 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

******** 20% below number 1 = 92,490 psi ********

24. 5W30 Lucas conventional, API SN = 92,073 psi
zinc = 992 ppm
phos = 760 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

25. 5W30 O'Reilly (house brand) conventional, API SN = 91,433 psi
This one only costs $3.99 per quart at the Auto Parts Store where I bought it.
zinc = 863 ppm
phos = 816 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

26. 5W30 Red Line, API SN = 91,028 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

27. 5W20 Royal Purple API SN = 90,434 psi
zinc = 964 ppm
phos = 892 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

28. 10W30 Quaker State Defy, API SL (semi-synthetic) = 90,226 psi
zinc = 1221 ppm
phos = 955 ppm
moly = 99 ppm

29. 5W20 Valvoline Premium Conventional, API SN = 90,144 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD


************ GOOD PROTECTION 75,000 to 90,000 psi **********


30. 30 wt Castrol Heavy Duty conventional, API SM = 88,089 psi
zinc = 907 ppm
phos = 829 ppm
moly = 56 ppm

31. 10W30 Joe Gibbs HR4 Hotrod Oil = 86,270 psi
zinc = 1247 ppm
phos = 1137 ppm
moly = 24 ppm

32. 5W20 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM = 86,034 psi
I have not been able to find this oil with the latest API SN certification.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

33. 15W40 RED LINE Diesel Oil, API CJ-4/CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CF/CH-4/CF-4/SM/SL/SH/EO-O = 85,663 psi
zinc = 1615 ppm
phos = 1551 ppm
moly = 173 ppm

34. 5W30 Royal Purple API SN = 84,009 psi
zinc = 942 ppm
phos = 817 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

35. 20W50 Royal Purple API SN = 83,487 psi
zinc = 588 ppm
phos = 697 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

36. 20W50 Kendall GT-1 High Performance with liquid titanium, (conventional) API SN = 83,365 psi
zinc = 991 ppm
phos = 1253 ppm
moly = 57 ppm
titanium = 84 ppm

37. 5W30 Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15,000 mile, API SN = 83,263 psi
zinc = 890 ppm
phos = 819 ppm
moly = 104 ppm

38. 0W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN = 82,867 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD


******** 30% below number 1 = 80,928 psi ********


39. 15W40 ROYAL PURPLE Diesel Oil, API CJ-4 /SM, CI-4 PLUS, CH-4, CI-4 = 76,997 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

40. 5W30 GM's AC Delco dexos 1 (semi-synthetic) API SN = 76,501 psi
zinc = 878 ppm
phos = 758 ppm
moly = 72 ppm



**************** MODEST PROTECTION 60,000 to 75,000 psi ************


41. 5W30 Royal Purple XPR (Extreme Performance Racing) = 74,860 psi
zinc = 1421 ppm
phos = 1338 ppm
moly = 204 ppm
NOTE: This particular bottle of oil was just opened, but was out of a 3 ½ year old case.

42. 5W40 MOBIL 1 TURBO DIESEL TRUCK Oil, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4 and ACEA E7 = 74,312 psi
zinc = 1211 ppm
phos = 1168 ppm
moly = 2 ppm

43. 15W40 CHEVRON DELO 400LE Diesel Oil, conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, SM, SL, “Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” = 73,520 psi
zinc = 1519 ppm
phos = 1139 ppm
moly = 80 ppm

44. 15W40 MOBIL DELVAC 1300 SUPER Diesel Oil, conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4/SM, SL = 73,300 psi
zinc = 1297 ppm
phos = 1944 ppm
moly = 46 ppm

45. 15W40 Farm Rated Heavy Duty Performance Diesel, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SL, SJ (conventional) = 73,176 psi
zinc = 1325ppm
phos = 1234 ppm
moly = 2 ppm

46. 15W40 SHELL ROTELLA T Diesel Oil, conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4,CF/SM = 72,022 psi
zinc = 1454 ppm
phos = 1062 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

47. Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 Nitro 70 Racing Oil (semi-synthetic) = 72,003 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

48. 0W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 (semi-synthetic) = 71,377 psi
zinc = 1621 ppm
phos = 1437 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

49. 15W40 “OLD” SHELL ROTELLA T Diesel Oil, conventional, API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4,CG-4,CF-4,CF,SL, SJ, SH = 71,214 psi
zinc = 1171 ppm
phos = 1186 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

50. 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 (semi-synthetic) = 71,206 psi
zinc = 1557 ppm
phos = 1651 ppm
moly = 3 ppm

51. 15W40 VALVOLINE PREMIUM BLUE HEAVY DUTY DIESEL Oil, conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM = 70,869 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

52. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN = 70,235 psi
zinc = 1,133 ppm
phos = 1,168 ppm
moly = 83 ppm

53. 5W40 CHEVRON DELO 400LE Diesel Oil, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, SL, SM = 69,631 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

******** 40% below number 1 = 69,367 psi ********

54. 5W30 Motorcraft, API SN = 68,782 psi
zinc = 796 ppm
phos = 830 ppm
moly = 75 ppm

55. 5W40 SHELL ROTELLA T6 Diesel Oil, synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4/SM = 67,804 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

56. 15W40 LUCAS MAGNUM Diesel Oil, conventional, API CI-4,CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SL
= 66,476 psi
zinc = 1441 ppm
phos = 1234 ppm
moly = 76 ppm

57. 15W40 CASTROL GTX DIESEL Oil, conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4/SN = 66,323 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

58. 10W30 Royal Purple HPS (High Performance Street) = 66,211 psi
zinc = 1774 ppm
phos = 1347 ppm
moly = 189 ppm

59. 10W40 Valvoline 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil conventional, API SJ = 65,553 psi
zinc = 1154 ppm
phos = 1075 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

60. Royal Purple 10W30 Break-In Oil conventional = 62,931 psi
zinc = 1170 ppm
phos = 1039 ppm
moly = 0 ppm



********** UNDESIRABLE PROTECTION Below 60,000 psi ***********



61. Torco 10W40 TR-1 Racing Oil with MPZ conventional = 59,905 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD


******** 50% below number 1 = 57,806 psi ********

Member:
SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)

ptuomov

Here's what "540 RAT" writes specifically about one Valvoline oil

More Speedtalk oil posts from "540 RAT" can be found with this google search query:

928NOOBIE

Or just put some bacon in it.

GlenL

Thanks.

I grabbed the conventional VR1 this time. Just $6/qt and I'm just street driving the car. I often go with synthetics, though, as they're better over temp and keep the inside of the engines nice and clean. Conventional oils create sludge deposits. I know the next person to tear the engine down will be me.

Something I ran across on the web (so it may be true) is that adding those ZDDP oils to regular oil doesn't work well at the detergent packages are not compatible. Getting the right oil out of the bottle is the way to go.

SMTCapeCod

Interesting the disparity across different product lines and viscosities from the same manufacturer.

eijun

I like his note of
*** This testing has clearly shown that a particular oil’s “load carrying capacity/film strength”, is NOT determined just by its zinc/phos levels, but rather, it is determined by the oil and its additive package “as a whole”. So, if people choose an oil strictly based on its zinc/phos levels, they could easily end up having a “LOT LESS” protection than they think they have.

I did a main summary of the oils that we are more interested (and the top 3)

Protection Tests (Oh the protection tests was for how much pressure it can handle for load carrying capacity/film strength, I dont think he stated that he tested metal content in the oil afterwards)

1. 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM = 115,612 psi
I have not been able to find this oil with the latest API SN certification. The bottle says, “No leading synthetic oil provides better wear protection”. For once, a product’s hype turns out to be true.
zinc = 806 ppm
phos = 812 ppm
moly = 66 ppm

2. 10W30 Lucas Racing Only = 106,505 psi
zinc = 2642 ppm
phos = 3489 ppm
moly = 1764 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

3. 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN = 105,875 psi
zinc = 801 ppm
phos = 842 ppm
moly = 112 ppm

11. 20W50 Castrol GTX conventional, API SN = 96,514 psi
zinc = 610 ppm
phos = 754 ppm
moly = 94 ppm

33. 20W50 Royal Purple API SN = 83,487 psi
zinc = 588 ppm
phos = 697 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

40. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN = 70,235 psi
zinc = 1,133 ppm
phos = 1,168 ppm
moly = 83 ppm



Heat Tests:

1. 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM (synthetic)
106,784 psi “load carrying capacity”
zinc = 806 ppm
total detergent = 3387 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 4.2, the higher this number, the higher the proportion of detergent, which can have the potential to try and clean away zinc

2. 10W30 Lucas Racing Only (synthetic)
NOT SUITABLE FOR STREET USE
101,251 psi “load carrying capacity” (5% below no. 1)
zinc = 2642 ppm
total detergent = 2943 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 1.1

3. 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN (synthetic)
101,099 psi “load carrying capacity” (5% below no. 1)
zinc = 801 ppm
total detergent = 1489 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 1.9

7. 20W50 Castrol GTX, API SN (conventional)
91,165 psi “load carrying capacity” (15% below no. 1)
zinc = 610 ppm
total detergent = 2599 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 4.3

(Note he did not test everything in the Heat area)


Now it has gotten me thinking of oils that everything needs to be tested:
1. load carrying capacity/film strength
2. Zinc/Detergent/other content (additives affect number 1 due to it changing viscosity and formula)
3. Metal content inside the oil after oil change
4. Heat temp

I recall people testing the metal content of some of the oils that we normally use. Maybe someone should do a list comparison and pool data together for our normal oils:

Kendall 20/50 + Zinc additive
Mobil 1 15/50 + Zinc additive
Torco TR-1 20/50 non-synthetic + No Additive
Torco SR-1 20/50 synthetic + No Additive
Brad Penn 20/50 + No Additive
Royal Purple HPS 20/50 + No Additive
Castrol GTX 20/50 + Zinc additive
Valvoline VR-1 20/50 + No Additive
Amsoil 20/50 + ??
Amsoil 15/50 + ??
Swepco 20/50 + ??
Redline 15/50 + ??
Redline 20/50 + ??
(15 for those who is in the northern cool areas that need it to start)

I might be missing a couple, this is just from memory.

Oil change Metal report example from this post
Amsoil
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...e-results.html

GregBBRD

All of this is wonderful data....but does this single data point "load carrying capacity" really mean anything to people driving vehicles on a daily basis? Are any of us "smearing" a ball bearing, under extreme pressure across another surface?

Sorry, no.

None of our 928 engines are experiencing "pressure loads" anywhere near 60,000 psi....much less 100,000+ psi.....so this testing is, at best.....interesting.

Real world....

I take apart a lot of engines....a lot of 928 engines. I take apart very old, high mileage engines. I take apart very old, low mileage engines. I take apart new engines that never worked. I take apart new engines that worked perfectly. I get to see, first hand, what is happening inside...that's my "oil testing".....everything else is just interesting.

Last year, I took apart a "Marc Thomas" stroker engine. 5,000 total miles. Had brand new GT cams when assembled. The oil got changed 4 times in that 5,000 miles. Main bearings looked as new. Rod bearings looked OK (some side loading problems see from running the "incorrect" offset rod (Chevy offset.) Camshafts....significantly worn. Many pits in many lobes.

I also took apart one of my own stroker engines....that was involved in a severe accident and had 50,000 miles on it. Main bearings like new. Rod bearings looked OK. Evidence of "side loading" obvious. (Engine was a very "early" one of my street strokers....and also used the incorrect offset Chevy rod.) Camshafts (Also new GT cams when installed)....perfect. Like the day they were installed.

I also took apart another one of my stroker engines, last month, that had also been involve in a huge crash (and cracked the block). It had less than 5,000 miles on it. Everything, inside that engine looked like it was new....which it was!

That's my oil testing procedure. Everything else is just....interesting.

ptuomov

Greg --

As I posted above, I think that the problem is complex enough that the best rule to follow is whatever works, works.

But I also think that there is value in laboratory measurements, if for no other reason than to understand why whatever works, works.

Flat tappet cams have surprisingly high local pressures. I don't usually like to quote Hot-Rod Magazine, but this is a quote within the quote so maybe it's not the usual bull****:

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...#ixzz2VBIUAJiW

That's right up there at "540 RAT's" wear test pressure readings.

In terms of comparing your stroker engines to other people's engines, I am happy to hear that the camshafts in your engines don't wear much. My question to you is how much of that you attribute to

(1) always using quality-controlled new lifters if the cam lobes can't be matched with their specific used lifters vs.
(2) your break-in procedures (whatever they are, say pre-oiling the engine and not letting it idle after initial startup) vs.
(3) break-in lubricants vs.
(4) the motor oil used in normal use after the break in?

eijun

I was only thinking of the proven oils that we use, not random ones just sticking with the 20/50 and the 15/50 ones that we all know and love.
I think there is around 10 total of 20/50 and the mobil 1 of 15/50.
But yes interesting (especially those who send the oils to testing).

Regardless I will likely use the ones you recommend, just need to figure out first is Synthetic or non-Synthetic.