mark kibort

lets have a few beers and talk about it. but yes, it can be done in this short of time. now, you have to understand the driver and his abilties. as you do this long enough, you can drive around most issues in a car, and adapt. ill never forget the 928 stroker i drove that had an "Oversteer" issue. i ended up driving the car and i was fine. a few driver adjustments fixed the problem, as most can be fixed by. if a style change wants to be done, we can adjust the suspension to work in concert with that change. you are too focused on the mechanics. If you are going to be a driver / builder, you have to work on both with the same veracity. Im trying to help here. first , spend all your time in the next few races to plant those hands. you will thank me later!

mark kibort

Hacker, ive won many times over the years and a champioinship as welll, competing with guys that had a heck of a lot more of a car and cash than me. now, its harder (or easier ) due to class size and the additional money going into race these days. 5-10 years ago, it was different. more grass roots-ish.
my results speak for themselves, and you can dispute it all you want. 8% vs the fastest GT3 modern cups and as fast as the best of the best cups of 2001.

2:26 at road america, on a good day, with tires the way they are now and a stock Z06 is 505hp rated, is a great time , but not that surpising. touring cars in WC ran that time as well on 225 with a lot less hp .

Carl is making a lot of great stuff. Im trying to help with things i know work. you are not out there driving, and just because you "supported" a team, it doesnt mean you know anything about racing. its all talk until you hit the track and prove your performance. you have to realize ive run toe to toe with guys i think know how to drive, the andersons, pobsts, sofro's of the world. thats the environment i cut my teeth on and learned how to get things done.

Oh yeah, i won the GTGP race last year , agaisnt Sofro's brother in a cup car, and anderson as well...... it was a pro race by the way. but, if you did know what you were talking about, you would know my racing record.


Now, if you want to help Carl, lets focus on the obvious things. his set up is going in the right direction and having mark A, or myself out to test and tune is the best thing he can do right now. get the data and video of how to toss that car around and he will be better off than anything he can bolt on to the car.


By the way, (WAKE UP!!) here is the video of my car winning the GT2 class in the GTGP race at laguna against sofronas' bro in a GT3 and anderson as well. (rain for part of the race was the great equalizer).

mark kibort

you have the right attitude. worst thing is to justify it, and this shows me you are on the right track. the other thing is the race-craft stuff, where you put the car in the right spots to take advantage of your competitoin and maximise your cars ability to accelerate, brake and handle.

some habits are harder than others, but the folks ive helped , after a little resistance, have changed pretty quicly. no problem really runnnig fast what you are doing, but that little extra you will gain by feeling yourself at the edge will be worth it, but mostly, SAVING the car in a bad situation by having the wheel and hands in predictable spots will be a god send. we are not talking drifting or snow driving (or heavy equip) racing on the edge really benefits from this.

I guess as soon as Hacker runs 108% of the fastest GT3s ever, with a 928 with less than 375rwhp, i guess you might listen to him on how to dirve or set up a 928. ....... just saying. all that "working with " a national championship corvette team , carries over how?????

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hacker-pschorr

This ZO6 is tuned to less than 390rwhp (actually less than 380 IIRC) to be in his class.

Those touring cars also weigh less.

Wow, I wasn't aware you beat Mark's white car with your 928. Is there a results breakdown posted anywhere?

I apologize again, I had no idea you took an overall win in anything......my sincere apologies.

It would be a lot more impressive if you posted the specs / drivers history of the cars you actually beat, not those you are slower than.

It does him a lot more good working with people in the same series, run group, similar classes etc.... than someone halfway across the country playing internet racing guru.

If you really want to help, buy a plane ticket and get out here.

I suppose if Carl's goal is to be "108% of the fastest...." in NASA..........

Most racers shoot for the lead, not a percentage differential.

mark kibort

yes, touring cars weigh less, but not a lot less. still a track like road america depends a lot on the conditions. its soo fast and long

Apolgy accepted. . the results are on the GTGP site for the 2 races we ran in. I won GT4 on Saturday, and took 2nd on sunday. watch the video, it shows the race , both front view and rear view highlights.

cars ive beaten over the years.... and drivers names. wow, mostly top club guys with cars that were equal or more than what i was driving. I had a chance at Pobst once when he was driving a Grand am GS bmw with all the bells and whistles, same weight , same hp. he was on brand new hoosiers, while i was on used toyos. passed him at the start, led a lap and then my new wing at the time was too much, and gave unbearable understeer. if i would have prepared for this, that would have been a good race, with one of the drivders i respect most out there. many of the guys ive beat have been in videos i share. now , many have successfull GT3 campagns in the top of the fields,. when Ive raced them they were driving mustangs, comp coupe vipers, etc.conney bogan for example, ran in the top 10 of the viper challenge series. I beat her at sears and she would be me at thunderhill. several other vipers comp couples as well. you can watch the videos. rear cam shows who is behind.

whats nice about using the cup car times, by the tops in the world, is that they dont vary much at a track near you.
or you can use something like spec miata times and see how much faster you are than them. its a great way to measure how well you are doing vs the top , best of everything, $250k machines, with the best tires too!

Ill take a few pictures of the 1st place trophies, if you really want to see them, or you can just look at the results over the 15 years ive been racing.

most racers do their best to compete. they can easily judge their performance vs other known entities that are better equipped. I race who is close to me and try and catch anyone that is faster. my goal is to push the car hard and make smart racing decisions so i end up driving it home. (both with drving the car and racing the competition) I can help over the internet, but sure, i would love to help carl in person. if mark cant make it and he still is running this car and wants help, I would love to fly out and give a hand.

Mark

IcemanG17

Hacker-MK
Guys.....this isn't a "contest" for who is the best "racer"......its about constructive criticism to help Carl develop his driving AND his car.....yes putting Kibort or Anderson in the car is a quick answer to help develop things.....I am VERY lucky to have input from several excellent drivers in developing my race 928's, especially the Estate.....Kibort & Anderson raced it with me a few times....& the input they had on tuning was extremely helpful......I also got great advice from other "amateur" racers that I trust (Ken Kurtz and Dean Thomas).....Ken drove with Sean, Petty & I in our last race....a very skilled driver

I gotta admit sitting at the dinner table with Anderson and Kibort after an 8 hour race day discussing the car, strategy & "bench racing" who had the FTD was quite enjoyable.....I was lucky to get a dismal 2:23 on day one, which slightly beat MK & Anderson....only to watch them both run within .5 second of each other on Sunday at 2:19's.... Anderson won FTD for race 1.....MK got it for race 2.....Ken got it for race 3....I am proud to say I was about .5-1 second behind these skilled racers....sure its my car...but they have worlds more race experience than I do!!!

Carl Fausett

Hey, I beat the track record for GTSU that had stood for two years by more than 2.5 seconds.
It cant be all bad.

You saw a clip of a corner or two that I selected to show as they demonstrated my point of understeer that I was trying to make for the viewer. Not my best corners, that's for sure. Mark, I do know what the line is and where to place the car. But, as you know, in traffic sometimes the line you want you cant get and you take another.

All that being said, can I improve? Absolutely. And your point that sometimes drivers think it's "the car" that needs changing when actually another driver can get in that same car and drive the pants off of it - that is completely correct.

Hardest thing to adjust to this season? The big 355mm front brakes
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/gt1_brake_kit.php
I'm still hitting them too hard and too soon. I can use a softer foot, later than I am. But you sneak up on it, unless you want to go grass surfing :-)

Carl Fausett

That's one heck of an offer and I may take you up on that. Only an idiot wouldn't.

This is why I invited Mark Anderson to come drive for me at a couple events this season, and, God willing, we will make Mid-Ohio and Road America with Mark A behind the wheel. I look forward to wearing just one "hat" for the weekend (Crew Chief) and not two hats (Driver and Crew Chief). I'm sure Mark will give me great input, and the setup on the car will make a leap forward.

Kibort - thank you again for that generous offer.

Carl Fausett

I have one more thing to add, and I hope it does not sound like rationalization.

Please understand that I haven't had the luxury of long southern California seasons (we have a lot fewer races per years than you guys) and the benefit of taking largely the same car out of the trailer weekend-to-weekend.

Our car is used to prove the parts, and the damn thing is always in a state of flux. It hasn't stayed still long enough for me to get dialed in to it. I'd love to leave it alone for a season and just get used to it! My comment about the new big brakes (above) is an excellent example of this.

The new PRO shocks are great, but we are trying to learn what going from "6" on the rebound valve to a "5" does to the cars handling - another new product that needs proofing and here I am again trying to dial in new parts.

I'm not making excuses, Mark, just pointing out our differences. I wish I had 1) the long season you do to go to as many track events, and 2) the relatively static setup you do so I could get used to it.

mark kibort

All good points. yes, is nice to have a platform that has been ever so mildly tweeked over 15 years. really, i add 50hp, i instantly drop 1-2 seconds and find out the brakes are not enough, so go to larger rotors. suspension wise, my car is pretty nice, but its beat up. old,worn out, but it works. it is a GREAT starting point for anyone. if i was to do the shocks agian, i would make current settings a mid point. ride height and balance are all dialed in and any lower or higher have HUGE comprimises. Brian is finally getting it and getting his cars in this range too and will see the benefits.

race cars and driving them is fun stuff. as you do this longer, im less impressed with lap time, as you see many folks can spin a good lap time on any given day. its the race strategy, car control and race sense that wins races and keeps the car and components safe. a lot of new racers get some hot cars and get their times very close to the top pros that have been racing for 20 years. but, why do they not win races?? its easy to see when you see the race, incar fotage and then talk to them afterward. lots of excuses.
Best thing you can do is find the guys that are faster in your car and do what they do (for a while) then tweak it to your own style. both, in car control, strategy, components (unless you can really fix something or make it better),and style. dont change too much at once , or you will be reiventing the wheel. use known times in other cars that are heavily regulated to judge your progress. (i.e. spec miata, or pirelli cup to GT3 supercup at track near you).

by the way, brian, i had the fastest time both days...... in the bucket. but it wasnt by much!

Mk

mark kibort

by the way carl, the brakes shouldnt be the hardest thing to get used to. going to 330mm was a snap over the S4. just made things better. a set of pads make more impact, even with small rotors, but they might melt or fade more easily. all i found with bigger rotors was it was much easier to modulate. it could be a function of braking points, style, tires and set up. we can help there too. Unless you changed the master cylinders.... then all bets are off. who knows what you got! Joe fan did this with the same sized rotors (F50 set up) and went back to stock after having all sorts of problems.

would LOVE to have a chance to help you out sometime. let me know!!!!!! really!

You know i love this stuff!!

mark

IcemanG17

Carl
One thing I found on "braking" on track......especially in the Estate in lemons trim...running S brakes with race pads (Raybetos ST43) on 225/50-16 street tires was an exercise in ABS (that you modulated yourself).... While I often preach the brakes as a "light switch" I have found a slightly different approach works better.....instead of hitting your braking point and instantly going to max braking...I have found quickly "rolling" into the brakes brings the tires up to ideal grip temp which provide max deceleration.....I think about the traction curve of the tires.....at the end of a straight the front tires are relatively cool.....instantly going to max braking will far surpass their available traction.....quickly rolling onto the brakes brings them up to temp as you increase braking force, thereby increasing your overall braking force vs surpassing it, locking up and dealing with "pucker factor" going into the corner....

brutus

The Gingerman track was extended mid 2010 so opened up for ALL NEW track records for the 50 or so NASA classes. The GTSU "record" was set by a GTS3 class 1979 911 sc with a no blower 3.2 engine that got bumped up to GTSU class. A record far SLOWER than for the lower class lower power/weight slower classes. Carl beat a record set by one out of class car where there was no prior time to beat !
SCCA also runs at Gingerman and the GT1 record is a 131.62 by a late model Mustang tub car, 5 liter, solid rear axle 3,200 lbs 420 hp no blower. That is 12 seconds a lap faster ! Even a SCCA Toyota Celica no blower laps at 136.34 !
Either the 928 suspension, shocks, sway bars are totally screwed up or it is making a lot less than 700 hp or there is some serious lack of driving skills; or all of the above ! Seriously running 7 seconds a lap SLOWER than a Toyota Celica does little to represent the 928 or show the Vipers what a 928 can do...at least not in a positive way.
That poor 1990 Audi 2.5 liter driver passed Carl four times in the same race (different class), and yes Carl did blow by him on the one straight bit...four times !
The reality of the weekend is far different from the story implied by the original post, just go back and read it one more time. And remember that setting a track record might mean just one of 50 for that club and no where near the fastest lap time at all. And winning GTSU means only that you were there and started and no one else did. And the nice assortment of cars in the "division" are all running in lower classes even if some are much faster.
The 928 went to the track , ran all weekend, no parts fell off, and it went back in the trailer in one piece but seven seconds a lap slower than a Toyota Celica ???? As Mark Kibort mentioned it SHOULD be a contender for FTD not racing a 2.5 liter 1990 Audi.
It is great that Carl is out there racing , I wish more 928 owners would do so but please keep the hype and spin to a reasonable minimum or it makes us all look foolish.

Carl Fausett

Your the only one that looks foolish, Brutus.

When the officials said to me that I had set a new course record in my class, I was as surprised as anyone. But you say "OK" and your happy about it. I did not put any "spin" on it at all. It is what it is. I posted exactly what it was - a new track record in my class - GTSU. That's all. I have no doubt it wont last long, my new track record will probably get broken too.

I did not claim to be the fastest car there, I certainly wasn't.
I included clips in both Putnam Park and Gingerman videos of me being passed.
I even selected a clip of two bad corners in the Gingerman video as an instructional moment about how understeer effects the car in a race. I thought it would be informative to others. Instead, (in typical Rennlist fashion) there are those who assume too much from a small clip.

So NO, I put no "spin" on it whatseover. I am pretty well grounded on where I am in the pecking order. I am faster than some , slower than others. But I'm having fun doing it.

But, you sure have put a lot of effort into putting some sort of negative "spin" on it. I hope you spent hours researching who set the track record in 2010 and when they lengthened the track, and what engine they had, and what axle they were using and so on and so on. It sure looks like you did.

As you don't race, and you don't buy our parts, one wonders why you would invest so much effort over such a small thing. What agenda are you pursuing? Is it just jealousy or is it ignorance that makes you do this? Its petty.

Dont worry about the track record, Brutus. It wont last long. I'll break it again next year :-)