The GTS4 IS NOW MINE
06-09-2012, 05:55 PM
#46
Could easily have a 27 year old clutch setup depending on where it came from. I doubt it got a new intermediate plate considering the way it was being put together. Good to hear it runs well !
06-09-2012, 07:10 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Jacked up and ready for fittings
James, "Potsiewebber" listed this car for sale after he did all the work to it. The listing on eBay was in May 2010. In the listing he said that he had installed a "Clutch Masters Kevlar plate Dual Disc Unit from Motorsports." I talked with him after I bought this car from his buyer and he told me that before the clutch change it shifted like butter but after the conversion is is hard to shift. I am hoping that the adjustment procedure for the original DD clutch will be applicable to this unit.
I have the car jacked up and underneath it is real dry. It has an exhaust system which I think is 2 1/2 inch tubing, but with the original intermediate mufflers. There is an X pipe setup and the cats are deleted. The rear Muffler is gone and has an RMB. (That acronym always makes me want to say "rear muffler bearing."
For all the work that was done to this car I would have thought they could have gone to the trouble to do the detailing. For example the rear X-member is encrusted with grime.
All of the rear wheel well liners and shields are gone, and I was aware of that. That actually saves me a step in my next fitting efforts tomorrow. I forgot to look, but I think the fronts are also gone. I have some very good front ones in my stash that will fill that bill very well.
Here are a couple more pictures.
Jerry Feather
I have the car jacked up and underneath it is real dry. It has an exhaust system which I think is 2 1/2 inch tubing, but with the original intermediate mufflers. There is an X pipe setup and the cats are deleted. The rear Muffler is gone and has an RMB. (That acronym always makes me want to say "rear muffler bearing."
For all the work that was done to this car I would have thought they could have gone to the trouble to do the detailing. For example the rear X-member is encrusted with grime.
All of the rear wheel well liners and shields are gone, and I was aware of that. That actually saves me a step in my next fitting efforts tomorrow. I forgot to look, but I think the fronts are also gone. I have some very good front ones in my stash that will fill that bill very well.
Here are a couple more pictures.
Jerry Feather
06-09-2012, 09:07 PM
#48
The kit was two discs and a pressure plate with higher spring pressure. It does not include an intermediate plate. So same adjustments as stock same problems if it no longer holds adjustment. Also if you have it apart check the thickness of the friction discs if too wide it can cause dragging poor release. Some of the aftermarket refaced discs were made too thick in the past as they did not understand how critical the dimensions are in the 928 application.
06-10-2012, 11:14 AM
#50
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Jerry Feather
06-23-2012, 11:01 AM
#52
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The GTS4 is still sitting as in the above pictures awaiting my next push on the rear WW Liners this morning. While I am finishing up my morning coffee I thought I would share some of my thoughts about this car's interior with you.
When I was in the Air Force some years ago and flying as Navigator mostly across the Pacific, one thing that was always emphasized was that you had to keep thinking ahead of the aircraft. We needed to take a fix (determine our actual position) every hour to hour and 20 minutes, so it was always smart to plan ahead from each fix to determine just what fixing aids might next be available. Either I learned then to do that or it just came natural for me because my brain already worked that way. In any case my brain is always thinking ahead from one or more projects to the next or how the present one(s) are going to continue to develop.
In this case, while working on the front seats, as shown in the Sport Seat thread, I have been working over in my mind what I am going to do about the back seats.
I have been troubling over in my mind for some time the fact that when they changed the front seats to the smoother seat backs as in the "S3" version of the 928, they didn't do anything similar to the rear seats. The original front seats are unique with the significant channel across the seat backs just above the cushion inserts; and that theme seems to me to have been carried over to the backs of the rear seats. However when the channel was eliminated in front nothing was done about changing the rear backs to coordinate.
As I recall fron the interior Doug and I did in my first S4, the rear seat backs are made out of plywood, so that will made some redesign fairly basic. I will be starting another thread about that part of this project when we get to it; but what I have in mind is to add one and more likely two additional cushion sections to the rear seats, as with the fronts, and to eliminate the crossways channel in the rear seat backs. I will be making some of the rear seat backs more like the front, but not so much headrest-like, and running the cushion insert section a little farther up into the backs. These will also be in the light gray, and the part of the rear seats that sort of constitute the bolster components, the center console on the insides and the rear quarter panels on the outsides, will be in the darker gray. With a little bit of black welting I think they will then coordinate much better with the front seats.
There is a lot more that will go into the redesign, but this is sort of the guts of it.
By the way, if I get to it later today I'll show some pictures of the underhood part of the GTS4 as it is now.
Jerry Feather
When I was in the Air Force some years ago and flying as Navigator mostly across the Pacific, one thing that was always emphasized was that you had to keep thinking ahead of the aircraft. We needed to take a fix (determine our actual position) every hour to hour and 20 minutes, so it was always smart to plan ahead from each fix to determine just what fixing aids might next be available. Either I learned then to do that or it just came natural for me because my brain already worked that way. In any case my brain is always thinking ahead from one or more projects to the next or how the present one(s) are going to continue to develop.
In this case, while working on the front seats, as shown in the Sport Seat thread, I have been working over in my mind what I am going to do about the back seats.
I have been troubling over in my mind for some time the fact that when they changed the front seats to the smoother seat backs as in the "S3" version of the 928, they didn't do anything similar to the rear seats. The original front seats are unique with the significant channel across the seat backs just above the cushion inserts; and that theme seems to me to have been carried over to the backs of the rear seats. However when the channel was eliminated in front nothing was done about changing the rear backs to coordinate.
As I recall fron the interior Doug and I did in my first S4, the rear seat backs are made out of plywood, so that will made some redesign fairly basic. I will be starting another thread about that part of this project when we get to it; but what I have in mind is to add one and more likely two additional cushion sections to the rear seats, as with the fronts, and to eliminate the crossways channel in the rear seat backs. I will be making some of the rear seat backs more like the front, but not so much headrest-like, and running the cushion insert section a little farther up into the backs. These will also be in the light gray, and the part of the rear seats that sort of constitute the bolster components, the center console on the insides and the rear quarter panels on the outsides, will be in the darker gray. With a little bit of black welting I think they will then coordinate much better with the front seats.
There is a lot more that will go into the redesign, but this is sort of the guts of it.
By the way, if I get to it later today I'll show some pictures of the underhood part of the GTS4 as it is now.
Jerry Feather
06-23-2012, 11:23 AM
#53
Rennlist Member
Jerry,
Great work in both refurbishing the GTS, and in the rear seat "thinking ahead" dept! I've always thought the rear seat backs could actually be higher, and still not interfere with the front seat movement/recline when folded down (but then, I'm 5'8, so there is a good bit of room behind my front seat). IF they were higher, with that "ledge" on the tops of them, when folded down, you'd have a fair bit more space for transporting stuff in the hatch.
Keep up the good work, hope today was productive on the liner project
Gary--
PS: the seat backs are plywood, and the rear brake calipers/rotors are the same on the S4's and GTS's. Front rotors on the GTS's are ~20 mm larger in diameter, and the GTS rotors therefore are about 10 mm "wider" (as in the width of the arc in the radius of a circle) than the S4's.
Great work in both refurbishing the GTS, and in the rear seat "thinking ahead" dept! I've always thought the rear seat backs could actually be higher, and still not interfere with the front seat movement/recline when folded down (but then, I'm 5'8, so there is a good bit of room behind my front seat). IF they were higher, with that "ledge" on the tops of them, when folded down, you'd have a fair bit more space for transporting stuff in the hatch.
Keep up the good work, hope today was productive on the liner project
Gary--
PS: the seat backs are plywood, and the rear brake calipers/rotors are the same on the S4's and GTS's. Front rotors on the GTS's are ~20 mm larger in diameter, and the GTS rotors therefore are about 10 mm "wider" (as in the width of the arc in the radius of a circle) than the S4's.
06-23-2012, 12:40 PM
#54
Nordschleife Master
Jerry, just to chime in with Gary on the rear seats. I can tell you that getting the wheelchair in/out of the car every time I get in and out my seats don't go back far enough or recline enough with the rear seat backs down and your proposal will decrease that even more. My situation is very unique though and I THINK if you lift the handle to lower the seat back you can actually push the seats even FURTHER DOWN... I know some of my 928's can do this...not sure if it is because something is wrong with the mechanism or if that is by design and/or if that was changed later on...seems like it happens in my earlier cars mostly.
06-23-2012, 01:16 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hi Gary. Actually your suggestion about making the rear seat backs a little taller is in my thought process, but I didn't think it would come out in my description. I am about your height so will likely make them a couple inches taller and reshape them some. I'll also do some modification of the rear center console so that there is more "flushness" when the seat backs are folded foreward.
Jim, it occurs to me that for your needs the converse can be true. I don't know why the rear seat backs cannot be made shorter so there is more room for the front seats to recline to the rear. The same design process is involved. Simply make them the way you want them.
In terms of design of the upholstery I think there would simply be less of a headrest-like area at the top of the seat backs and would be more like a simple surround starting at about the hinge point. No notch, grove or channel across as the with originals.
Jerry Feather
Jim, it occurs to me that for your needs the converse can be true. I don't know why the rear seat backs cannot be made shorter so there is more room for the front seats to recline to the rear. The same design process is involved. Simply make them the way you want them.
In terms of design of the upholstery I think there would simply be less of a headrest-like area at the top of the seat backs and would be more like a simple surround starting at about the hinge point. No notch, grove or channel across as the with originals.
Jerry Feather
06-23-2012, 01:22 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
Jerry and James,
IF - like most - the rear seats are never used, then Jim Mayzurk has a wonderful solution. He removed them and put great looking "cubbies" back there to store stuff in. You may already have seen these a few weeks ago, if not sooner.
G--
IF - like most - the rear seats are never used, then Jim Mayzurk has a wonderful solution. He removed them and put great looking "cubbies" back there to store stuff in. You may already have seen these a few weeks ago, if not sooner.
G--
06-23-2012, 01:26 PM
#57
Regardless, the car deserved to be saved. I just don't see how the interior got all fouled up, when it sold at auction, it was all intact.
06-23-2012, 04:10 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
abolfaz,
Yes, when I looked at the car about 5 years or so ago here in SE PA, the interior was complete and original. Potsieweber was trying to sell it for someone else to "restore" at that time. His price and my estimate of cost for doing/having done the restoration exceeded my estimate of ultimate value. Guess no one else wanted it while he was advertising it, so he went ahead and had a bunch of stuff done and drove it some.
Glad Jerry has it and it will be very nice when he is finished with his "magic".
Gary-
Yes, when I looked at the car about 5 years or so ago here in SE PA, the interior was complete and original. Potsieweber was trying to sell it for someone else to "restore" at that time. His price and my estimate of cost for doing/having done the restoration exceeded my estimate of ultimate value. Guess no one else wanted it while he was advertising it, so he went ahead and had a bunch of stuff done and drove it some.
Glad Jerry has it and it will be very nice when he is finished with his "magic".
Gary-
06-23-2012, 05:28 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Well, I guess "drivable" was kind of a stretch. Actually I think that it was just still "up on all fours" and was in good shape to roll around. Although I suspect that the engine was just fine and could probably have been run and maybe even the car driven a tiny bit, but without any radiator there would have been no use. The point is that I think from the pictures you can still see about this car on the 928 Registry, the damage, although pretty severe, was pretty limited to just in front of the front running gear. See for yourself and make your own evaluation. Again this car is an early 93 GTS and the last four of the SN are 5123. Look it up.
As to the interior, James told me that he changed out the front seats because of the weight of the comfort seats and he wanted to do some limited racing with the car. He put in these early sport seats which I do not favor. The rest of the interior is actually in very good shape, but when I start with later Sport Seats that have been completely stripped as my base for the next seat conversion that takes me to another level of design with the multi-non-color scheme that I have in mind as shown in the other thread. Then, I find that I will have to do something with the door panels to match, and so on.
Those "replacers" in the tank would more likely have just changed the front seats for the very nice black Sport Seats I got recently from Mark A. and then call it good; and it would have been pretty good with that. However, maybe it is some kind of character defect if you like, but I just can't help myself. And, although all black in a red car is pretty nice, it is also pretty blah; and I like some of the lighter colored interiors in the 928.
Its the same with the WW liners that I am in the middle of fitting to this GTS4 right now; and I am on a break to try to figue out one of my issues. There are probably a lot of easier things that could be done in place of these liners, but that just isn't my way.
Jerry Feather
Jerry Feather
As to the interior, James told me that he changed out the front seats because of the weight of the comfort seats and he wanted to do some limited racing with the car. He put in these early sport seats which I do not favor. The rest of the interior is actually in very good shape, but when I start with later Sport Seats that have been completely stripped as my base for the next seat conversion that takes me to another level of design with the multi-non-color scheme that I have in mind as shown in the other thread. Then, I find that I will have to do something with the door panels to match, and so on.
Those "replacers" in the tank would more likely have just changed the front seats for the very nice black Sport Seats I got recently from Mark A. and then call it good; and it would have been pretty good with that. However, maybe it is some kind of character defect if you like, but I just can't help myself. And, although all black in a red car is pretty nice, it is also pretty blah; and I like some of the lighter colored interiors in the 928.
Its the same with the WW liners that I am in the middle of fitting to this GTS4 right now; and I am on a break to try to figue out one of my issues. There are probably a lot of easier things that could be done in place of these liners, but that just isn't my way.
Jerry Feather
Jerry Feather
06-29-2012, 01:03 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Frame crack
Here is something a little odd about this GTS4 of mine. I had noticed this slight bulge and small crack when I first removed the wheels. I was particularly keen to the thought of any evicence of a rear end collision.
I remember that a while back someone posted a picture of a significant bend in the frame member inside the rear wheel well area of a 928 and they kind of got pissed when I suggested that the bend was the result of a rear end collision and also resulted in a swelling of the wheel well arch.
Therefore, when I saw this bulge and crack I was concerned if my analysis was going to be the same. However, I don't see any other evidence of a rear end collision and the wheel arch is not bulged outward, and the frame rail is not bent downward as with the previous case.
What I have kind of concluded is that this bulge and crack is most likely the result of the frame rail being filled with an amount of water and then allowed to freeze. The bulge and crack looks just about exactly like what happens when a copper water pipe does that.
Here is a picture.
Jerry feather
I remember that a while back someone posted a picture of a significant bend in the frame member inside the rear wheel well area of a 928 and they kind of got pissed when I suggested that the bend was the result of a rear end collision and also resulted in a swelling of the wheel well arch.
Therefore, when I saw this bulge and crack I was concerned if my analysis was going to be the same. However, I don't see any other evidence of a rear end collision and the wheel arch is not bulged outward, and the frame rail is not bent downward as with the previous case.
What I have kind of concluded is that this bulge and crack is most likely the result of the frame rail being filled with an amount of water and then allowed to freeze. The bulge and crack looks just about exactly like what happens when a copper water pipe does that.
Here is a picture.
Jerry feather