Replacing the torque converter in the car.
05-03-2012, 05:26 AM
#1
Three Wheelin'
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Replacing the torque converter in the car.
There was some discussion the torque converter could not be replaced in the car. The other day I came across these pictures. Two notes. One this is an 85 car and Two it was done on the tilter. I like working standing up.
And the job all buttoned up.
You do have to cut the bell housing to be able to use the torque tube as a lever to get access to the upper bolts. After on the tilter the torque tube comes out in about 45 minutes. It is a one person job. Pretty easy way to remove the exhaust too.
And the job all buttoned up.
You do have to cut the bell housing to be able to use the torque tube as a lever to get access to the upper bolts. After on the tilter the torque tube comes out in about 45 minutes. It is a one person job. Pretty easy way to remove the exhaust too.
05-03-2012, 06:27 AM
#2
Race Car
Can you provide a bit more information on the "cut the bellhousing" step?
Also, what measurements do you have take in order to ensure it is reinstalled properly?
Also, what measurements do you have take in order to ensure it is reinstalled properly?
05-03-2012, 08:55 AM
#3
Captain Obvious
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Those picture don't show the converter out. On an S4, you will get as far ast the top pic, and then the tunel tapers donwn, making the converter removal impossible.
05-03-2012, 02:17 PM
#5
Under the Lift
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I hope it is clear that this applies to 86 and earlier only. The "some discussion" was my attempt to do this in an 89 when it was not clear that the later, larger TC would not clear the tunnel. It was not even remotely close to clearing despite moving the tranny back and tilting it down.
05-03-2012, 03:52 PM
#7
Trending Topics
05-03-2012, 04:09 PM
#8
Race Car
https://rennlist.com/forums/3363945-post14.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/3364739-post15.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...rque+converter
A few links on the topic, there's more in the record...I think its the install that has many people pulling up short, along with some irregular results from one of the operations doing the modifications. Bet AMG was all over this back in the day.. but don't dig up the old (dubious) account of an AMG tech flying out wiht planetary gears, etc...
https://rennlist.com/forums/3364739-post15.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...rque+converter
A few links on the topic, there's more in the record...I think its the install that has many people pulling up short, along with some irregular results from one of the operations doing the modifications. Bet AMG was all over this back in the day.. but don't dig up the old (dubious) account of an AMG tech flying out wiht planetary gears, etc...
05-04-2012, 05:30 AM
#9
Three Wheelin'
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If you take a look at the upper bell housing after removing the lower bell housing there will be a small strip of metal in the center directly under the torque tube shaft. If you disconnect the flex plate from the flywheel and push the flex plate back a little and then pull the torque tube down you will hit this strip of metal. A saws all with two small cuts will remove the strip of metal. This allows the torque tube to be pulled lower clearing the bell housing. There is no structural damage to the bell housing both because the strip is very small and later when the lower bell housing is installed it reinforces the bridge.
The torque tube can be used to lever the forward portion of the transmission lower giving easy access to the upper bolts. It helps that the transmission mounts and shifter are disconnected.
Typically to do a torque tube it requires removing the transmission which is about a 4 hour job. This way the torque tube can be removed in about 45 minutes. Of course for me I put the car on the tilter first which is another 45 minutes. Probably less if I worked on the flat floor of the garage and not the bricks in the drive. I have not tried this on the a lift but I am sure it would be about the same. I just hate working over head.
I repeat the piece cut out of the bell housing is non structural. I will note that the 86.5 I bought had this modification already made so i am not the only one to think of it.
I used wooden blocks to keep the transmission wedged down before removing the torque tube. This gave me access to the converter cover. I also did not have to drain the trans first or disconnect th dreaded boden cable.
And yes on an 85 which has a smaller torque converter it came right out. There was enough room on reinstalling to get a straight shot. I am not sure what the confusion his here, but the torque converter will only install correctly one way. Once you have seated a torque converter correctly you know the feel when it is in place. There were no problems getting to the cap bolts on the top of the converter cover, although I did use a hammer to give them a good tap as I do on any cap bolt before attempting to remove them.
With the converter out of the way I was able to pull the front pump and change the o-ring and front seal. It is also possile then to check other things in the transmission stack such as the clutch and other things that slide out. If I remember right it is possible to check the conditions of the steels and fiber plates - but i could be wrong here. There is pretty good access to other parts of the transmission as well.
As far as the right or wrong way that is a matter of preception. There is nothing in doing things this way that harms the car or makes future repairs difficult or impossible. If you fail to see this then you do not understand mechanics. There is often more ways to skin the same cat. This is what finding creative solutions is all about.
As I understand Bill Ball it is possible to remove the front bell housing instead of making the cut, but at the cost of an hour or so. Since the cut speeds up the job and does no harm I prefer to make the cut.
Hope this explains things.
05-04-2012, 01:33 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
I will be selling my modified stall converter soon. It will stall to about 2400 with a healthy S4. Much more if it is superchared/turbo charged.......
05-04-2012, 04:42 PM
#13
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
I should take a picture of the bell housing. I will eventually write this up.
If you take a look at the upper bell housing after removing the lower bell housing there will be a small strip of metal in the center directly under the torque tube shaft. If you disconnect the flex plate from the flywheel and push the flex plate back a little and then pull the torque tube down you will hit this strip of metal. A saws all with two small cuts will remove the strip of metal. This allows the torque tube to be pulled lower clearing the bell housing. There is no structural damage to the bell housing both because the strip is very small and later when the lower bell housing is installed it reinforces the bridge.
The torque tube can be used to lever the forward portion of the transmission lower giving easy access to the upper bolts. It helps that the transmission mounts and shifter are disconnected.
Typically to do a torque tube it requires removing the transmission which is about a 4 hour job. This way the torque tube can be removed in about 45 minutes. Of course for me I put the car on the tilter first which is another 45 minutes. Probably less if I worked on the flat floor of the garage and not the bricks in the drive. I have not tried this on the a lift but I am sure it would be about the same. I just hate working over head.
I repeat the piece cut out of the bell housing is non structural. I will note that the 86.5 I bought had this modification already made so i am not the only one to think of it.
I used wooden blocks to keep the transmission wedged down before removing the torque tube. This gave me access to the converter cover. I also did not have to drain the trans first or disconnect th dreaded boden cable.
And yes on an 85 which has a smaller torque converter it came right out. There was enough room on reinstalling to get a straight shot. I am not sure what the confusion his here, but the torque converter will only install correctly one way. Once you have seated a torque converter correctly you know the feel when it is in place. There were no problems getting to the cap bolts on the top of the converter cover, although I did use a hammer to give them a good tap as I do on any cap bolt before attempting to remove them.
With the converter out of the way I was able to pull the front pump and change the o-ring and front seal. It is also possile then to check other things in the transmission stack such as the clutch and other things that slide out. If I remember right it is possible to check the conditions of the steels and fiber plates - but i could be wrong here. There is pretty good access to other parts of the transmission as well.
As far as the right or wrong way that is a matter of preception. There is nothing in doing things this way that harms the car or makes future repairs difficult or impossible. If you fail to see this then you do not understand mechanics. There is often more ways to skin the same cat. This is what finding creative solutions is all about.
As I understand Bill Ball it is possible to remove the front bell housing instead of making the cut, but at the cost of an hour or so. Since the cut speeds up the job and does no harm I prefer to make the cut.
Hope this explains things.
If you take a look at the upper bell housing after removing the lower bell housing there will be a small strip of metal in the center directly under the torque tube shaft. If you disconnect the flex plate from the flywheel and push the flex plate back a little and then pull the torque tube down you will hit this strip of metal. A saws all with two small cuts will remove the strip of metal. This allows the torque tube to be pulled lower clearing the bell housing. There is no structural damage to the bell housing both because the strip is very small and later when the lower bell housing is installed it reinforces the bridge.
The torque tube can be used to lever the forward portion of the transmission lower giving easy access to the upper bolts. It helps that the transmission mounts and shifter are disconnected.
Typically to do a torque tube it requires removing the transmission which is about a 4 hour job. This way the torque tube can be removed in about 45 minutes. Of course for me I put the car on the tilter first which is another 45 minutes. Probably less if I worked on the flat floor of the garage and not the bricks in the drive. I have not tried this on the a lift but I am sure it would be about the same. I just hate working over head.
I repeat the piece cut out of the bell housing is non structural. I will note that the 86.5 I bought had this modification already made so i am not the only one to think of it.
I used wooden blocks to keep the transmission wedged down before removing the torque tube. This gave me access to the converter cover. I also did not have to drain the trans first or disconnect th dreaded boden cable.
And yes on an 85 which has a smaller torque converter it came right out. There was enough room on reinstalling to get a straight shot. I am not sure what the confusion his here, but the torque converter will only install correctly one way. Once you have seated a torque converter correctly you know the feel when it is in place. There were no problems getting to the cap bolts on the top of the converter cover, although I did use a hammer to give them a good tap as I do on any cap bolt before attempting to remove them.
With the converter out of the way I was able to pull the front pump and change the o-ring and front seal. It is also possile then to check other things in the transmission stack such as the clutch and other things that slide out. If I remember right it is possible to check the conditions of the steels and fiber plates - but i could be wrong here. There is pretty good access to other parts of the transmission as well.
As far as the right or wrong way that is a matter of preception. There is nothing in doing things this way that harms the car or makes future repairs difficult or impossible. If you fail to see this then you do not understand mechanics. There is often more ways to skin the same cat. This is what finding creative solutions is all about.
As I understand Bill Ball it is possible to remove the front bell housing instead of making the cut, but at the cost of an hour or so. Since the cut speeds up the job and does no harm I prefer to make the cut.
Hope this explains things.
