My car arrived, this may go very badly
05-02-2012, 02:37 PM
#211
Rennlist Member
Not complaining Bill, just impatient to here more about the car.
And I agree; I bought 2 there and both are fairly solid, although not nearly as pretty as this one, not even close.
But, THIS scares the $$$hit out of me.
Gee I have been avoiding this thread. Guess I am bored tonight. I am in mild shock especially over Bill Ball comments.
This is an 82 928 and it has the typical early car problems. The alternator on the early cars are crap. It is common to drain the battery with both the headlights and heater or A/C on. The transmission in these cars grind. That is pretty much a given. I have yet to see an early car with any mileage that has a smooth shifting transmission.
What things cost is what things cost. Owning a 928 costs money and requires a fair amount of upkeep. If you plan on paying a mechanic then you better have deep pockets and be willing to accept inferior work - that is from what I have seen of mechanical work done even by top shops on 928s.
Being realistic the car will need new motor mounts ($800 in parts). Most likely the A/C does not work which will require a new drier, hoses and a compressor rebuild ($500 in parts). A new alternator (Delco for $85) All the rubber on the engine needs replacing ($400 in parts) The windshield washers probably do not work. Then there a timing belt. This can be deferred until it breaks since the engine is none interference ($500 in parts). A clutch is $1000 in parts. The brakes are bad most likely due to a bad master cylinder ($150 in parts). The front brakes are sub standard. The shocks, spindles and calipers need to be upgraded ($200 used in parts). Rebuilding the transmission is a $2000 affair. The syncros are shot. The torque tube should be rebuilt too ($60 in parts - $500 exchange).
Then there is the interior. Just Dashes wants about $2000 for a dash, pod, glove box cover and center console. You can go with Rob Budd for a little cheaper. Then there are the front seats and carpet. Figure $2000 for a good quality job.
Add it up and the car - any average early car is worth a negative $10,000. That is a good place to start. At least in this case the wheels and tires are probably worth $1000.
In this case do not blame the seller. All car sellers lie or at minimum shade the truth in a positive fashion. Further everyone has a different perception. Some living on the street see a cardboard box as a luxury. All perceptions are relative. A dash that is completely trashed to some look to have some minor cracks that are covered with a fine rug.
My advice - sell the wheels and put the stock phone dials on the car. Then take each area and fix it up probably starting at the front bumper and working to the rear. By the time you get to the back of the car you can start over at the front again. Leave the seller alone and get on with the project. At least the exterior looks nice.
This is an 82 928 and it has the typical early car problems. The alternator on the early cars are crap. It is common to drain the battery with both the headlights and heater or A/C on. The transmission in these cars grind. That is pretty much a given. I have yet to see an early car with any mileage that has a smooth shifting transmission.
What things cost is what things cost. Owning a 928 costs money and requires a fair amount of upkeep. If you plan on paying a mechanic then you better have deep pockets and be willing to accept inferior work - that is from what I have seen of mechanical work done even by top shops on 928s.
Being realistic the car will need new motor mounts ($800 in parts). Most likely the A/C does not work which will require a new drier, hoses and a compressor rebuild ($500 in parts). A new alternator (Delco for $85) All the rubber on the engine needs replacing ($400 in parts) The windshield washers probably do not work. Then there a timing belt. This can be deferred until it breaks since the engine is none interference ($500 in parts). A clutch is $1000 in parts. The brakes are bad most likely due to a bad master cylinder ($150 in parts). The front brakes are sub standard. The shocks, spindles and calipers need to be upgraded ($200 used in parts). Rebuilding the transmission is a $2000 affair. The syncros are shot. The torque tube should be rebuilt too ($60 in parts - $500 exchange).
Then there is the interior. Just Dashes wants about $2000 for a dash, pod, glove box cover and center console. You can go with Rob Budd for a little cheaper. Then there are the front seats and carpet. Figure $2000 for a good quality job.
Add it up and the car - any average early car is worth a negative $10,000. That is a good place to start. At least in this case the wheels and tires are probably worth $1000.
In this case do not blame the seller. All car sellers lie or at minimum shade the truth in a positive fashion. Further everyone has a different perception. Some living on the street see a cardboard box as a luxury. All perceptions are relative. A dash that is completely trashed to some look to have some minor cracks that are covered with a fine rug.
My advice - sell the wheels and put the stock phone dials on the car. Then take each area and fix it up probably starting at the front bumper and working to the rear. By the time you get to the back of the car you can start over at the front again. Leave the seller alone and get on with the project. At least the exterior looks nice.
05-03-2012, 02:25 AM
#212
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: McLean, VA
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car is being looked over completely. The shop advised me to change the alternator now (non functional) so that they can assess the other areas of the car without false negatives the lack of a working charging system would create.
Waiting on the part... should arrive tomorrow.
05-03-2012, 04:58 AM
#213
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hope the shop is smart enough to change the alternator to a Delco. There is really no other practical solution. A Bosch will cost less than the Paris Rhone that came on the car, but in most cases the rear housing will not fit. This means no cooling to the alternator and the strong possibility that it will short out as soon as you go through a puddle. I lost two that way. Then again why would you drive a 928 in the rain.
Look the point I am trying to make is to be informed as to what you have and the inherent issues that an 82 928 has.
Bill I was not really jumping on you, but I put the onous fully on the buyer. He did not investigate. He bought a 82 - 928 with the typical problems that come with the car. I could have told him what was wrong with the car just by looking at the pictures. They all have the same problems. One would be in shock if the alternator worked correctly or that the transmission shifted smoothly. If you cannot ask the right questions then you will end up disappointed. I paid too much for the second 928 I bought. But I learned and the next one I bought was a very good price.
Sometimes the only way to get the knowledge is buy a 928 and then learn as you go. I learn something new every day. The $5000 was the entry price to the school to learn about the car. Of course now the buyer is making a second big mistake - Taking the car to a mechanic. By the time he spends another $5000 he will have learned a valuable lesson - if you are going to own a 928 do the work yourself. If not get a Toyota.
Even as seasoned as you are Bill the tranmission ended up being a time consuming and expensive learning process. That is the price of learning. Next time you will go directly to the problem and fix it in a very short time.
I do not want to be cruel to new owners but in this case the buyer is totally unrealistic. Skip harassing someone on e-bay and get the car running right!
Look the point I am trying to make is to be informed as to what you have and the inherent issues that an 82 928 has.
Bill I was not really jumping on you, but I put the onous fully on the buyer. He did not investigate. He bought a 82 - 928 with the typical problems that come with the car. I could have told him what was wrong with the car just by looking at the pictures. They all have the same problems. One would be in shock if the alternator worked correctly or that the transmission shifted smoothly. If you cannot ask the right questions then you will end up disappointed. I paid too much for the second 928 I bought. But I learned and the next one I bought was a very good price.
Sometimes the only way to get the knowledge is buy a 928 and then learn as you go. I learn something new every day. The $5000 was the entry price to the school to learn about the car. Of course now the buyer is making a second big mistake - Taking the car to a mechanic. By the time he spends another $5000 he will have learned a valuable lesson - if you are going to own a 928 do the work yourself. If not get a Toyota.
Even as seasoned as you are Bill the tranmission ended up being a time consuming and expensive learning process. That is the price of learning. Next time you will go directly to the problem and fix it in a very short time.
I do not want to be cruel to new owners but in this case the buyer is totally unrealistic. Skip harassing someone on e-bay and get the car running right!
05-03-2012, 06:19 AM
#214
Rennlist Member
Dear Dan the Pod Guy:
Because I value the wisdom and information I get from you off these pages I want to be careful to not **** you off. I just wanted to inform you that you are now officially a Grumpy Old Man.
Welcome to the club.
Because I value the wisdom and information I get from you off these pages I want to be careful to not **** you off. I just wanted to inform you that you are now officially a Grumpy Old Man.
Welcome to the club.
05-03-2012, 07:01 AM
#215
Rennlist Member
Clean Electrical panel, grounds, wires inside console and 14 pin connector & exciter wire circuit. Then change the alternator. We've been using 88 Camaro Delco rebuilds without the cooling duct.
Two common problems in alternator exciter circuit are bad connnection in 14 pin connector in engine bay and broken conductor in black wire, hidden by insulation, in the 12 inches before wire enters the alternator.
Not sure what modern diagnostics tools can tell you, but for me, I'd have removed the alternator already and removed the back duct cover, remounted the alternator, and checked function. Then, applied a 12v jumper to the excitor lug to see if the issue was lack of excitation.
Its possible to replace the alternator when the issue was the exciter circuit. Because the duct is in the way, folks might not take the trouble to check. But hey, at least the alternator will be new.
Two common problems in alternator exciter circuit are bad connnection in 14 pin connector in engine bay and broken conductor in black wire, hidden by insulation, in the 12 inches before wire enters the alternator.
Not sure what modern diagnostics tools can tell you, but for me, I'd have removed the alternator already and removed the back duct cover, remounted the alternator, and checked function. Then, applied a 12v jumper to the excitor lug to see if the issue was lack of excitation.
Its possible to replace the alternator when the issue was the exciter circuit. Because the duct is in the way, folks might not take the trouble to check. But hey, at least the alternator will be new.
05-03-2012, 02:30 PM
#216
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Dan:
Understood. It should have been clear I think the seller didn't do due diligence either and erred in assuming a PPI was not an option due to distance, etc..
Understood. It should have been clear I think the seller didn't do due diligence either and erred in assuming a PPI was not an option due to distance, etc..
05-04-2012, 04:14 AM
#217
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
05-04-2012, 09:05 AM
#218
Been selling Twinkies on Ebay,
have some extra cash right now.
Rennlist Member
have some extra cash right now.
Rennlist Member
Dan was grumpy a decade ago. Get with the program.
05-05-2012, 04:40 AM
#220
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Washington "Dc"
Posts: 1,810
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Update:
Car is being looked over completely. The shop advised me to change the alternator now (non functional) so that they can assess the other areas of the car without false negatives the lack of a working charging system would create.
Waiting on the part... should arrive tomorrow.
Car is being looked over completely. The shop advised me to change the alternator now (non functional) so that they can assess the other areas of the car without false negatives the lack of a working charging system would create.
Waiting on the part... should arrive tomorrow.
If you're lucky you will only need a few serviceable parts.
05-05-2012, 03:01 PM
#221
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Update:
Car is being looked over completely. The shop advised me to change the alternator now (non functional) so that they can assess the other areas of the car without false negatives the lack of a working charging system would create.
Waiting on the part... should arrive tomorrow.
Car is being looked over completely. The shop advised me to change the alternator now (non functional) so that they can assess the other areas of the car without false negatives the lack of a working charging system would create.
Waiting on the part... should arrive tomorrow.
05-14-2012, 05:56 PM
#223
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: McLean, VA
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, the car has been at the mechanic for over a week. The alternator arrived and he replaced it.
He is telling me that when they started the car to try and see the charging system worked smoke began to come from the fuse box area. He tells me a wire is burned out and needs to be traced to its source. Car battery is disconnected.
The car is still there and now I have to decide whether to pay them to trace it or (somehow) get it home to try and trace it myself. This is getting out of hand.
To top it off, because of the smoking fuse box, they cant complete the inspection of the car.
Now what?
05-14-2012, 06:59 PM
#225
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Tracing the burnt wire should not take more than a few minutes. My guess: They shorted the exciter wire which comes into the fuse panel at O8, then out at Z1 and back in at Z6.