The Fastest 928 of all time, blows an Engine!
04-22-2012, 06:15 PM
#16
Rennlist
Basic Site Sponsor
Basic Site Sponsor
There has been no 928 to hit the track and run faster than the Anderson Beast, but it like many others has found a rod (and some other pieces of other parts) sticking out the bottom of the block. 
It blew , without warning, and without amzoil in its drysump! 
it seems all the tricks, theories and fixes are no match for the lurking 928 oiling issue. (unless we determine that something let go , like a rod problem or some other failed component.)
Im beginning to really believe that the only solution is to use the stock stuff , or base a stroker on the stock stuff, not to make too many changes, and shift below 6500rpm while racing. However, his previous motor, which lasted a boat load of races, blew up because of the prototype carbon fiber intake leak. this newest motor blew way before its time, for sure.
I hope he tears it down and finds that it was a spun bearing and the crank is salvageable, he buys a couple of rods, a piston or two, and a new bored block, and slaps it all together and gets back out there.
Bummer. Sorry Mark! I bet he was looking pretty good agaisnt the line up of moster 911 cups and RSRs at Cal speedway this weekend! with this mishap, he had to go grab his beat up, OB 911 GT3 cup car
, and go fight a bear with a knife! (those cars are out of control now with sequential shifting, 500hp, and an assortment of real racer features )
get it back together, run amzoil, shift at 6500rpm,warm it up before you beat on it, this means 50% Throttle and 4000 rpm max for the first lap, and see how that works!
Mk
It blew , without warning, and without amzoil in its drysump! it seems all the tricks, theories and fixes are no match for the lurking 928 oiling issue. (unless we determine that something let go , like a rod problem or some other failed component.)
Im beginning to really believe that the only solution is to use the stock stuff , or base a stroker on the stock stuff, not to make too many changes, and shift below 6500rpm while racing. However, his previous motor, which lasted a boat load of races, blew up because of the prototype carbon fiber intake leak. this newest motor blew way before its time, for sure.
I hope he tears it down and finds that it was a spun bearing and the crank is salvageable, he buys a couple of rods, a piston or two, and a new bored block, and slaps it all together and gets back out there.
Bummer. Sorry Mark! I bet he was looking pretty good agaisnt the line up of moster 911 cups and RSRs at Cal speedway this weekend! with this mishap, he had to go grab his beat up, OB 911 GT3 cup car
, and go fight a bear with a knife! (those cars are out of control now with sequential shifting, 500hp, and an assortment of real racer features ) get it back together, run amzoil, shift at 6500rpm,warm it up before you beat on it, this means 50% Throttle and 4000 rpm max for the first lap, and see how that works!
Mk
Pretty hard, for me, to draw any assumptions, at this point....and I go by 928 International 2-3 times each week.....and I built the thing....so I know the strengths and weaknesses of virtually every part in that engine. I'd think it hard for you, 500 miles away, and never having seen a single internal part in this engine, to instantly blame one specific thing.
The only time I've even seen Mark's race car, in the past three years, is at Sharktoberfest.....so it is tough for me to even have a hint at what failed. Mark does all his own maintenance (which usually consists of making sure he has enough used tires mounted, the afternoon before the event.)
Mark knows that I suggest/insist on cutting open the oil filter and inspecting it, after every event (oil filters are really cheap). I haven't been shown any of these filters, so I can't say if he has been keeping track of what is running around in the engine, or not. Oil filter inspection is a very economical thing to do and will almost always "catch" any pending bearing failure...so if Mark has been doing what I recommend, I seriously doubt that this failure is from the "standard" rod bearing failure.
As I said, there's many things that can add to a failure....Mark has been "running" the Cup Car and I have no idea how old the fuel in the 928 was....I can't actually remember when he last ran this car....could this be a factor?
The "Threshie" intake system was not a "functional" intake system....only made to show to people to "attract" people into paying for "future" intakes that never appeared. Both this intake and Josephs intake are carbon fiber pieces, held together with bondo. It (and Joseph's) has been falling apart, since the very first day it/they were installed...and already caused one engine failure....could this be a factor?
We know that these engines fill the heads with oil at high rpms.....was there enough oil in the dry sump tank, when the engine failed?
I also have no idea what oil Mark has been running, since Kendall (what we used to run) changed their formula. I spent many many hours researching this and came up with a differnt oil that I've been running with great success. Was he running this oil? For that matter, how long has the current oil been sitting in the engine? A year? Two years?
Hell, I don't even know a single detail about the failure. Did it happen while sitting at idle in the pits, or did it happen at redline? Were there any contributing factors? Missing a gear? Overrev on a downshift?
Or did a single componet instantly fail? Metal parts can/do break. Even the brand new factory Porsche racing engines fail....that's why they don't come with a warranty! You try and use the best stuff you can find...and things still break. Even the very, very best racing engines, with full time mechanics and limitless budgets fail. It's part of racing.
I've been on a temendous R&D program, since the last time Mark's engine was assembled. To say that many things/ideas have changed since that engine was created would be one of the understatements of all time. A year ago, I had no idea why his dry sump tank "sucked" up another couple of inches of oil above 5,000 rpms. Now I know exactly why.
It might be better to wait and see what actually happened, before you/the Intenet experts condem any one particular thing.
Seriously, it always seems like you are always trying to come across as smarter than this....
__________________
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
Last edited by GregBBRD; 04-22-2012 at 06:32 PM.
04-22-2012, 08:01 PM
#20
The Parts Whisperer
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Ok I'm back at my office with a keyboard. As to what happened I have no idea. It was the fourth session of the day and no signs of anything going wrong like low pressure or hot oil temps. I was on the inside straight and had just upshifted from 3rd to 4th when there was a loud explosion. With all the smoke I was concerned about fire. I instanty put it in nuetral, threw the kill switch, undid my belts and was preparing to exit quickly once I brought it to a stop. Luckily there was no fire. After getting towed to the pits I jacked it up enough to see what looked like part of a connecting rod hanging out the bottom. I'm sure we will know one day but I don't know that you will hear it from me. I have no doubt in the work Greg did as he has always provided fast and reliable engines and transmissions but **** happens. I've been racing 928's for nearly 25 years now and have broken a few parts that left me scratching my head like snapping a clutch short shaft in 2. Since that has only happened once in 25 years I'm guessing it was some faulty material. Things break and more often when you subject them to racing and twice as much torque and HP and was intented for.
This was on the floor of the trailer.
This was on the floor of the trailer.
04-22-2012, 08:30 PM
#22
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
04-23-2012, 01:06 AM
#26
Rennlist
Basic Site Sponsor
Basic Site Sponsor
Wow.
A piece of wrist pin bushing.
That's a Thermo Nuclear Explosion!
A piece of wrist pin bushing.
That's a Thermo Nuclear Explosion!
04-23-2012, 01:31 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Mark:
Pretty hard, for me, to draw any assumptions, at this point....and I go by 928 International 2-3 times each week.....and I built the thing....so I know the strengths and weaknesses of virtually every part in that engine. I'd think it hard for you, 500 miles away, and never having seen a single internal part in this engine, to instantly blame one specific thing.
The only time I've even seen Mark's race car, in the past three years, is at Sharktoberfest.....so it is tough for me to even have a hint at what failed. Mark does all his own maintenance (which usually consists of making sure he has enough used tires mounted, the afternoon before the event.)
Mark knows that I suggest/insist on cutting open the oil filter and inspecting it, after every event (oil filters are really cheap). I haven't been shown any of these filters, so I can't say if he has been keeping track of what is running around in the engine, or not. Oil filter inspection is a very economical thing to do and will almost always "catch" any pending bearing failure...so if Mark has been doing what I recommend, I seriously doubt that this failure is from the "standard" rod bearing failure.
As I said, there's many things that can add to a failure....Mark has been "running" the Cup Car and I have no idea how old the fuel in the 928 was....I can't actually remember when he last ran this car....could this be a factor?
The "Threshie" intake system was not a "functional" intake system....only made to show to people to "attract" people into paying for "future" intakes that never appeared. Both this intake and Josephs intake are carbon fiber pieces, held together with bondo. It (and Joseph's) has been falling apart, since the very first day it/they were installed...and already caused one engine failure....could this be a factor?
We know that these engines fill the heads with oil at high rpms.....was there enough oil in the dry sump tank, when the engine failed?
I also have no idea what oil Mark has been running, since Kendall (what we used to run) changed their formula. I spent many many hours researching this and came up with a differnt oil that I've been running with great success. Was he running this oil? For that matter, how long has the current oil been sitting in the engine? A year? Two years?
Hell, I don't even know a single detail about the failure. Did it happen while sitting at idle in the pits, or did it happen at redline? Were there any contributing factors? Missing a gear? Overrev on a downshift?
Or did a single componet instantly fail? Metal parts can/do break. Even the brand new factory Porsche racing engines fail....that's why they don't come with a warranty! You try and use the best stuff you can find...and things still break. Even the very, very best racing engines, with full time mechanics and limitless budgets fail. It's part of racing.
I've been on a temendous R&D program, since the last time Mark's engine was assembled. To say that many things/ideas have changed since that engine was created would be one of the understatements of all time. A year ago, I had no idea why his dry sump tank "sucked" up another couple of inches of oil above 5,000 rpms. Now I know exactly why.
It might be better to wait and see what actually happened, before you/the Intenet experts condem any one particular thing.
Seriously, it always seems like you are always trying to come across as smarter than this....
Pretty hard, for me, to draw any assumptions, at this point....and I go by 928 International 2-3 times each week.....and I built the thing....so I know the strengths and weaknesses of virtually every part in that engine. I'd think it hard for you, 500 miles away, and never having seen a single internal part in this engine, to instantly blame one specific thing.
The only time I've even seen Mark's race car, in the past three years, is at Sharktoberfest.....so it is tough for me to even have a hint at what failed. Mark does all his own maintenance (which usually consists of making sure he has enough used tires mounted, the afternoon before the event.)
Mark knows that I suggest/insist on cutting open the oil filter and inspecting it, after every event (oil filters are really cheap). I haven't been shown any of these filters, so I can't say if he has been keeping track of what is running around in the engine, or not. Oil filter inspection is a very economical thing to do and will almost always "catch" any pending bearing failure...so if Mark has been doing what I recommend, I seriously doubt that this failure is from the "standard" rod bearing failure.
As I said, there's many things that can add to a failure....Mark has been "running" the Cup Car and I have no idea how old the fuel in the 928 was....I can't actually remember when he last ran this car....could this be a factor?
The "Threshie" intake system was not a "functional" intake system....only made to show to people to "attract" people into paying for "future" intakes that never appeared. Both this intake and Josephs intake are carbon fiber pieces, held together with bondo. It (and Joseph's) has been falling apart, since the very first day it/they were installed...and already caused one engine failure....could this be a factor?
We know that these engines fill the heads with oil at high rpms.....was there enough oil in the dry sump tank, when the engine failed?
I also have no idea what oil Mark has been running, since Kendall (what we used to run) changed their formula. I spent many many hours researching this and came up with a differnt oil that I've been running with great success. Was he running this oil? For that matter, how long has the current oil been sitting in the engine? A year? Two years?
Hell, I don't even know a single detail about the failure. Did it happen while sitting at idle in the pits, or did it happen at redline? Were there any contributing factors? Missing a gear? Overrev on a downshift?
Or did a single componet instantly fail? Metal parts can/do break. Even the brand new factory Porsche racing engines fail....that's why they don't come with a warranty! You try and use the best stuff you can find...and things still break. Even the very, very best racing engines, with full time mechanics and limitless budgets fail. It's part of racing.
I've been on a temendous R&D program, since the last time Mark's engine was assembled. To say that many things/ideas have changed since that engine was created would be one of the understatements of all time. A year ago, I had no idea why his dry sump tank "sucked" up another couple of inches of oil above 5,000 rpms. Now I know exactly why.
It might be better to wait and see what actually happened, before you/the Intenet experts condem any one particular thing.
Seriously, it always seems like you are always trying to come across as smarter than this....
It was just to lighten the moment, because we all know how frustrating the engine thing is when they blow. I might be one of those things where , its just a racing engine and these things happen. cup motors blow, racer vets blow, they alll blow. (they are built and operated by humans) But you are right, we will find out more later. it was at high rpm when it went. clutch in and shut down, coasted to a stop. dont know more than that.
Im sure we will find out soon , or at least after Mark cares enough to dig into it. Im sure he needs a little time.
04-23-2012, 01:33 AM
#29
No mear grenade here this was the BOMB !!Sadly when parts fall out the bottom there is not much good left. What the hell I think I will send Anderson a $100 just to help him put it all back together. I got way more enjoyment out of seeing him kicking 911 *** than that.
04-23-2012, 01:35 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Edmonton,Alberta
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mark
Sorry to hear this. I lost the last motor on the widow on a 3-4 upshift as well. lots of schrapnel to sift through to find out what really happened.
Once again sorry to hear of your loss. Glad you are OK the engine can be replaced
Sean
Sorry to hear this. I lost the last motor on the widow on a 3-4 upshift as well. lots of schrapnel to sift through to find out what really happened.
Once again sorry to hear of your loss. Glad you are OK the engine can be replaced
Sean