1985 no spark
#1
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Thread Starter
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I have been busy but have a little time to look, with the warm weather went to start my car but no spark. What should I look at first, second etc.?
Thanks
Thanks
#2
Drifting
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Power to the coil, green wire from the distributor, power to the ignition module.
The factory manual actually has a really good process for troubleshooting lack of spark.
The factory manual actually has a really good process for troubleshooting lack of spark.
#3
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Relays....
#4
Burning Brakes
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I would jump the three critical relays, although I guess if you know it is ignition you could leave the fuel pump relay alone. Assuming it starts replace the jumpers with relays, one at a time to help diagnose which one is bad. Strangely enough when I had this problem I installed the original relays and everything was fine, but I do keep spare relays on board just in case.
#5
Team Owner
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swap out the 4 running relays LH,
EZK, fuel pump and ignition.
do one at a time to test.
clean the grounds at the battery,
inspect the coil wires for corrosion on either end of wire,
and make sure the coil wires are not rubbing on any part of their run
EZK, fuel pump and ignition.
do one at a time to test.
clean the grounds at the battery,
inspect the coil wires for corrosion on either end of wire,
and make sure the coil wires are not rubbing on any part of their run
#7
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He does not have a green wire.
I vote the ignition module relay and fuse. No spark on half the engine then a bad coil wire. This is the most common reason for the 32 valve engine to run on 4 cylinders. I have never seen an 85 ignition module to go bad either.
I vote the ignition module relay and fuse. No spark on half the engine then a bad coil wire. This is the most common reason for the 32 valve engine to run on 4 cylinders. I have never seen an 85 ignition module to go bad either.
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#8
Craic Head
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Hey Rick how's it going?
If you could give a little more info it would help. You say 'no spark'. What troubleshooting did you do to determine there was 'no spark'? Do you smell fuel? Is the engine cranking strong or does it slow down after a few spins? Did you check for voltage with a multi-meter (instead of the gauge on the dash)?
If it hasn't been run in a while I'd make sure the battery is fully charged and clean up all of the grounds. These cars are VERY sensitive to improper voltage (actually amperage I think) and combined with bad ground connections, you'll get all kinds of weird symptoms.
One other (less likely) option is the CPS or wiring to it.
John's suggestion is a good one (except for the green wire thing) the factory test plan is very methodical and if you follow it you will find the problem.
Please post more info so we can help.
If you could give a little more info it would help. You say 'no spark'. What troubleshooting did you do to determine there was 'no spark'? Do you smell fuel? Is the engine cranking strong or does it slow down after a few spins? Did you check for voltage with a multi-meter (instead of the gauge on the dash)?
If it hasn't been run in a while I'd make sure the battery is fully charged and clean up all of the grounds. These cars are VERY sensitive to improper voltage (actually amperage I think) and combined with bad ground connections, you'll get all kinds of weird symptoms.
One other (less likely) option is the CPS or wiring to it.
John's suggestion is a good one (except for the green wire thing) the factory test plan is very methodical and if you follow it you will find the problem.
Please post more info so we can help.
#9
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Ron from our local club sent me this email. I will be out of town until next week so it again will have to wait. Prior to no spark it ran but ran rough, I thought it might have been old gas, but it seems I was wrong. I just replaced the crank pulley and was going to drive it.
Rick,
Where to look?..............hmmmmm………
First- under the hood.
Second- under the carpet.
Third- under the dash.
Fourth- under th…………..oh, you’re serious!!
Shortcut- first check that the coolant temp sensor connector is securely pushed down on the sensor (on the front top of the engine, behind where the thermostat housing is). This connector will kill any 928 dead and has stopped me more than once (mine is now tie-wrapped in place).
Schematic is attached. I’m assuming no spark out of either side (you’ve checked at least one plug from both distributors). If true, chances are good that both coils or both distributors or both trigger units didn’t fail at the same time. Common possibilities are: Ignition switch, intake air temp sensor, coolant temp sensor, crank angle sensor, EFZ Unit.
1. Start with checking battery voltage on each coil with the key ON (run position). This is the small black wire on the coil. Should be battery voltage (to ground) 12-13 volts. No voltage?
2. Follow the source back to connector Q, pins 11 & 12 (under the relay panel). No Voltage?
3. Check for voltage on connector B, pin 11 (power from the ignition switch). No Voltage?
4. Check for voltage on ignition switch connector pin 15 (key on power). No Voltage?
5. Check for voltage on ignition switch pin 30 (battery power). No voltage?
6. Check power wiring from battery to ignition switch.
If you have voltage on the coil, make sure that it is there while cranking- the ignition switch could be faulty. If the voltage is OK at the coils, it is in the ignition circuit, which is harder to troubleshoot due to the electronics (no points).
1. The timing is detected by a crank angle sensor (RPM and reference mark transmitter). This is a two conductor shielded cable- I think the sensor is on top of the bell housing behind the airbox. Check for some resistance across the sensor at the EZF connector (unplugged) pins 7 & 19. It should be a few hundred ohms. I’ve never changed one of these, but it looks terrible to get to.
2. Check the resistance and connectors on the two temp sensors- pins 10 & 22 for the intake air, and pins 23 to 12 (ground) they should each have a few hundred ohms at the connector of the EZF Unit..
3. Test for battery voltage on pin 4 of each of the ignition trigger units (mounted near the hood latch in front). Also check for a good ground on pin 2 (brown wire) of each.
4. Check the continuity of the signal wire from pin 1 of each trigger unit to its respective coil (black/brown wire). Should be 0 ohms.
5. The only other wire to check is the shielded wire going to pin 5 of the trigger unit back to the EZF Ignition Control Unit mounted in the right footwell of the passengers compartment. The schematic shows a 2 pin connector in this run but I don’t know where it is. You can only check for continuity on these wires since the signal is very low-level and very fast. They end up on the EZF connector pins 1 & 13. Look for broken or corroded wires, connections, etc.
6. If that’s OK, it may be the EZF Unit itself (UGH!!)
7. Let me know what you find.
8. Hope this helps.
Where to look?..............hmmmmm………
First- under the hood.
Second- under the carpet.
Third- under the dash.
Fourth- under th…………..oh, you’re serious!!
Shortcut- first check that the coolant temp sensor connector is securely pushed down on the sensor (on the front top of the engine, behind where the thermostat housing is). This connector will kill any 928 dead and has stopped me more than once (mine is now tie-wrapped in place).
Schematic is attached. I’m assuming no spark out of either side (you’ve checked at least one plug from both distributors). If true, chances are good that both coils or both distributors or both trigger units didn’t fail at the same time. Common possibilities are: Ignition switch, intake air temp sensor, coolant temp sensor, crank angle sensor, EFZ Unit.
1. Start with checking battery voltage on each coil with the key ON (run position). This is the small black wire on the coil. Should be battery voltage (to ground) 12-13 volts. No voltage?
2. Follow the source back to connector Q, pins 11 & 12 (under the relay panel). No Voltage?
3. Check for voltage on connector B, pin 11 (power from the ignition switch). No Voltage?
4. Check for voltage on ignition switch connector pin 15 (key on power). No Voltage?
5. Check for voltage on ignition switch pin 30 (battery power). No voltage?
6. Check power wiring from battery to ignition switch.
If you have voltage on the coil, make sure that it is there while cranking- the ignition switch could be faulty. If the voltage is OK at the coils, it is in the ignition circuit, which is harder to troubleshoot due to the electronics (no points).
1. The timing is detected by a crank angle sensor (RPM and reference mark transmitter). This is a two conductor shielded cable- I think the sensor is on top of the bell housing behind the airbox. Check for some resistance across the sensor at the EZF connector (unplugged) pins 7 & 19. It should be a few hundred ohms. I’ve never changed one of these, but it looks terrible to get to.
2. Check the resistance and connectors on the two temp sensors- pins 10 & 22 for the intake air, and pins 23 to 12 (ground) they should each have a few hundred ohms at the connector of the EZF Unit..
3. Test for battery voltage on pin 4 of each of the ignition trigger units (mounted near the hood latch in front). Also check for a good ground on pin 2 (brown wire) of each.
4. Check the continuity of the signal wire from pin 1 of each trigger unit to its respective coil (black/brown wire). Should be 0 ohms.
5. The only other wire to check is the shielded wire going to pin 5 of the trigger unit back to the EZF Ignition Control Unit mounted in the right footwell of the passengers compartment. The schematic shows a 2 pin connector in this run but I don’t know where it is. You can only check for continuity on these wires since the signal is very low-level and very fast. They end up on the EZF connector pins 1 & 13. Look for broken or corroded wires, connections, etc.
6. If that’s OK, it may be the EZF Unit itself (UGH!!)
7. Let me know what you find.
8. Hope this helps.
#10
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Great write-up however before going through all that I would jump or replace the relays Rick.
I don't see how the temp sensors would affect a total spark failure, especially the one in the air box.
I'm sure someone will chime in on that.
I don't see how the temp sensors would affect a total spark failure, especially the one in the air box.
I'm sure someone will chime in on that.
#11
Drifting
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I'd like to resurrect this thread to try to get some help chasing down a no-spark condition on my 85 frankenstein. Last year or so, I replaced the engine with an 89, using the 89 wiring harness. Instead of sourcing LH/EZK, I tried an aftermarket solution, VEMS. I did get the car running, but could never solve the rich condition that would foul plugs in minutes. I did find a vacuum leak under the intake, so I pulled it and fixed that, but never tried to start the car again until recently, and it would not start . I decided to scrap the VEMS and sourced a used LH/EZK. Before sharktuning to accommodate my larger injectors and supercharger, I wanted to at least fire it up for a few seconds, but no luck.
I am finding that I have no spark to the plugs. I have new caps/rotors/wires/plugs/coils, etc. I have 12v at the coils, 12v at the ignition amps. I have 12v at Q11, but not Q12. I have 12v at B11, and pins 15/30 of ignition switch. Battery is fully charged.
CPS is new. MAF is new.
Where/how do I continue troubleshooting?
I am finding that I have no spark to the plugs. I have new caps/rotors/wires/plugs/coils, etc. I have 12v at the coils, 12v at the ignition amps. I have 12v at Q11, but not Q12. I have 12v at B11, and pins 15/30 of ignition switch. Battery is fully charged.
CPS is new. MAF is new.
Where/how do I continue troubleshooting?
#12
Rennlist Member
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Well, first did you 100% verify that the used electronics work in another car?
Secondly, ensure you are working with 89 wiring dials and pinouts, not 85.
Secondly, ensure you are working with 89 wiring dials and pinouts, not 85.
Last edited by Landseer; 05-26-2022 at 11:55 PM.
#14
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#15
Drifting
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Not verified, but was "told" they were good. Now I am doubting it. One thing I noticed was that the fuel pump wasn't priming when the ignition was turned on. I hooked the VEMS ecu back up and the fuel pump will now prime with ignition on. I removed the CoP and went back to standard ignition setup, so I'll try to fire it up once I have VEMS reconfigured to remove the CoP setup.