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GT Cam Damage - Endless Spending

 
Old 02-02-2012, 01:29 AM
  #61  
heinrich
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Larry that is very disappointing. I paid you top dollar. You represented the motor as in excellent shape. If I had sold you an engine with this severe a defect, even if I truly did not know about it, you can be sure that I would be either refunding you a significant amount of money, or taking it back in refund. Larry, I do hope my money brings you no happiness.
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:50 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by heinrich View Post
All damage is on the trailing edge of the lobes, except perhaps 6, which seems to be pretty much on the peak.
That's exactly as expected. That should be a big clue as to the cause of the damage, and also that it wasn't due to anything related to the oil or it's temperature.

Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Rick Redpath had some excessive wear on his GT cams also - did a pretty big rebuild - I wonder if the GT cam profile creates some extra wear - or maybe its just that GT's just tend to have lived a harder life...?
I would consider what's pictured damage, not wear. Those two things are different, with different causes. GTs having tended to live a "harder life" is part of it. There are a couple of aspects that make the GTs different, which work together to make that harder life as it relates to this issue more likely to occur than with non-GT models.

Originally Posted by redpathtribe View Post
H, as Alan said, when Dan and I went through my GT motor there was a decent amount of wear on the cam lobes. IIRC had something to do with the lift of the GT cams and the stock springs not being able to handle it, but my memory may be off
If you're GT cams had the pitting like those pictured, your memory isn't off at all as far as that being one part of the cause.

Originally Posted by karl ruiter View Post
Not sure what I am missing r.e. rod bearings. Oil from the heads goes back down to the pan and from there to the pickup, oil pump, and oil filter before going out the the bearings. I would think the oil filter would remove any metal residue that did not just sink to the bottom of the pan.
That would be true if all of the oil going to the engine went through the filter material. it doesn't. If it were me, I'd check the bearings before installing the engine in a car.

Originally Posted by karl ruiter View Post
But it seems that this is more of a GT cam issue and less of an oil issue.
It is.

Originally Posted by heinrich View Post
I already have a GTS engine in pieces. And i know that one has a good block, piston, rods, crank etc. If i have to do all this work, why would i do it on a GT motor with dead cams? The whole value of a GT motor are the cams. Aside from those it. Is just an S4 motor.

If Larry somehow didn't pull through here, i would build my GTS motor and in fact take a total loss on the now S4 motor because it is the same amount of work.
I don't know exactly what the final intentions for the car and engine are. The GTS engine has potentially weaker rods, and pistons, a less favorable geometry, more potential crankcase windage issues, and a higher compression ratio. Every one of those things is the opposite of what I'd want if it were me and putting together an engine that's going to be boosted.

Originally Posted by FBIII View Post
Is there anyway to prevent this from happening to good GT cams?
Yes, there are several things that could be done to help prevent it. The easiest and cheapest would be to shift before getting all the way to the top of the RPM range. GTs have a higher rev limiter setting than other models. Not a particularly good idea for a stock GT engine in my opinion, unless you like hammering chunks off of cam lobes.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:05 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Aspkiller View Post
To all of you who think buying used car parts from a member of some forum you belong to entitles you to an implied warranty, GROW UP! It doesn't.

Am I sorry Heinrich is having this problem.? Absolutely. However, I won't be assisting in the fix.
This might be legally right, but morally it is wrong.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:13 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Z View Post
...... That's exactly as expected. That should be a big clue as to the cause of the damage, and also that it wasn't due to anything related to the oil or it's temperature.
..... I would consider what's pictured damage, not wear.
Z ... a few questions..

If the damage was not due to breakdown of oil film thickness and consequent metal to metal contact/scuffing/overheating, I'd be interested to hear your theory as to how the surfaces lost metal.

I'd also be interested to hear how you define and differentiate between damage and wear in this situation.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:13 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Aspkiller View Post
Since Heinrich has decided to take this matter to the forum and imply that I need to "do right" by him and those others with similar thoughts, including the moron known as Randy V, who thinks I need to take care of Heinrich somehow or I'll be in line for a "Douche of the Year Award" (BTW Randy V - FU!), here are my latest thoughts on the subject:

If Heinrich had asked for a warranty, I would not have sold him the motor. End of story.

To all of you who think buying used car parts from a member of some forum you belong to entitles you to an implied warranty, GROW UP! It doesn't.

If I recall correctly, Heinrich was advised by Greg Brown to go a different direction with his GTS. But he didn't take that advise.

Heinrich says he has now found information in previous posts by Ernest SW that might hint at problems with the internals of the motor. He should have done that search prior to buying the motor. He knew who the PO was.

He also says he just now opened up the cam covers to discover the problem. Honestly don't recall when I sold him the motor, but it wasn't last week.

I recently blew a motor due to advise from Comp Cams that said you could cut the heads a certain way and found out you couldn't. $10k for a rebuild. Comp Cams acted like I was from outer space when I suggested that they pony up for the replacement.

Am I sorry Heinrich is having this problem.? Absolutely. However, I won't be assisting in the fix.
Here you go Larry. You've earned it.

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Old 02-02-2012, 11:12 AM
  #66  
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I had every intention of closing this thread down since I see no good coming from the dog pile that could ensue. With Z’s post being as informative as it is (as his posts usually are) I see a possible good coming from this discussion.

Please don’t make me regret this decision. Larry has said his piece, so have the rest of you. Take it offline if you have something to say about how you feel this transaction unfolded.

Originally Posted by Leon Speed View Post
This might be legally right, but morally it is wrong.
I disagree 100%

I do not know Larry from any random stranger on the street and I consider Heinrich a good friend, so it pains me to take this stance.

It all started here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...-for-sale.html

Larry purchased a GT for a low enough sum to justify gutting the drivetrain (most people start with a battered shell for this purpose) and tossing it aside.

It wasn't even Larry who brought the engine to the forum and offered it, the previous owner did. Unless it was agreed that Larry would tear down the engine for a full inspection, or Ernest made some kind of effort to insure the engine was good, this is the text book example of an "as-is" scenario.

What would I do if I were Heinrich? Pop in S4 cams, inspect the cylinder bores and replace the rod bearings and call it a day.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:21 AM
  #67  
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In my state, there is a law that says unless I explicitly agreed to take the engine as-is, I have legal recourse. I did not agree to any such thing. So ... opinions abound, but that is the law of the land, and that is where I am, and will be, coming from.
Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr View Post
I had every intention of closing this thread down since I see no good coming from the dog pile that could ensue. With Z’s post being as informative as it is (as his posts usually are) I see a possible good coming from this discussion.

Please don’t make me regret this decision. Larry has said his piece, so have the rest of you. Take it offline if you have something to say about how you feel this transaction unfolded.


I disagree 100%

I do not know Larry from any random stranger on the street and I consider Heinrich a good friend, so it pains me to take this stance.

It all started here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...-for-sale.html

Larry purchased a GT for a low enough sum to justify gutting the drivetrain (most people start with a battered shell for this purpose) and tossing it aside.

It wasn't even Larry who brought the engine to the forum and offered it, the previous owner did. Unless it was agreed that Larry would tear down the engine for a full inspection, or Ernest made some kind of effort to insure the engine was good, this is the text book example of an "as-is" scenario.

What would I do if I were Heinrich? Pop in S4 cams, inspect the cylinder bores and replace the rod bearings and call it a day.
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