Captain_Slow

Some relevant background: The previous owner of the car was very proud of locating a "special" reinforced Continental timing belt. He had a reputable shop install it and new water pump. The belt has about 6000 miles on it and just a year old. PO had it retentioned at 1500 miles. Mechanic came to his house after the belt tension warning light came on. I've had doubts about the Conti belt since day one because of what folks say about them on the forum.

At start up today I waited a few minutes while the idle smoothed out after a below freezing morning start. After a few minutes the Red Key warning light and the dash warning light lit up and the belt tension warning light appeared. The engine was still cool and loping a bit. Within two or three seconds I turned off the engine. After sitting and thinking for a bit I tested fate and started the engine again. It started and ran smoothly for 20 minutes. No warning lights. Shut it down and started it again and ran it for 20 more minutes. No lights. Started it again and still no lights.

Not sure how common false alarms are with the warning light system (I'm glad it appears to be working at all). The tension may be on the edge keeping the light on. So now my planned power steering pump swap is going to coincide with checking the timing belt and retightening. I don't want to replace the belt yet unless folks here say that the belt may be failing (it's already been retightened once).

If replacing the timing belt with Porsche/Gates is the "do it now" consensus I will have the shop replace the belt, check the laundry list of WYIT things, and replace the ps pump.

Anyone think it's fine to check/adjust the belt tension and carry on? If I go with this option I'll do it myself and replace the power steering pump myself.

Thanks
Jon

Rob Edwards

What year is your car? Toss your model year info in your sig. (Big difference in the stakes involved between your car being an '82 vs. an '85 ) Though regardless of the year you of course will at least be checking the belt tension.

Ninespub

I am sure that knowledgeable and talented people will reply to this shortly, I just do not happen to be one of them. Not to be a smart ***, but you said you "tempted fate". I remember tempting fate many, many years ago when I said "I'll only put it in a little bit" and "Ill pull it out in time", yeah.......you can figure where that got me. Be carefull out there and I hope all goes well for you.

Captain_Slow

Yeah I know...I have the interference engine. 1986.5

rgs944

I did my belt install last winter and had a TB warning light up a few weeks later. I turned the engine off and it never came on after that. First chance I got I re-tensioned. I think it would be a very good time to check tension and give it a good look over. Also check the wire connection. I think that it is somewhat common for them to give false errors.

Captain_Slow

rgs944,
Nice to know others have had some similar experiences. I did really run it hard on Saturday. I put Sea Foam in the tank to help clean it out while driving it hard and it really worked great. But, I did notice a little bit of oil in the front...I thought it was coming from around the front main seal but was surprised how CLEAN the oil is compared to the engine oil on the dip stick. Then I read in a previous thread that high rpm sprints can cause the tensioner to lose oil! There is a ton of good information about "timing belt tension" or related posts. I will start with filling the tensioner, then pull the cover on the passenger side to check belt tracking and check/adjust the tension. The only thing I'm unsure about is rotating the engine to TDC with automatic. I guess put trans in neutral.

This looks like it will be relatively simple, then I can get back to replacing the power steering pump.

Captain_Slow

Situation getting worse. Peeking through the "inspection holes" I can see the timing belt is riding too far forward (on the forward edge of the gears). Looks like clean oil on the forward protruding part of the oil pan, which probably came from the tensioner. So multiple things going on here. Getting close to calling a flat bed to take it to the shop. The list is growing and it's more than I can do in a day borrowing a friend's garage. Can't work on cars in my condo complex...not the best 928 ownership situation. May throw in the towel soon simply because I don't want to be forced to take it to a shop for stuff I can do myself.

blown 87

Rent a storage space and wrench on it there.

Captain_Slow

Blown 87 -- Good idea. More I read the more I know I should NOT start my car again until I do a complete TB/WP job...rebuild/replace everything. I've probably got a migrating water pump impeller. I heard a new noise recently that coincides with the belt tension slacking, and leaks up front. Timing belt is riding right on the front edge of the cam gears. My day job, working on a post-grad degree in GIS, and a lot of overseas travel (a month or two at a time) mean it would likely sit and not get done. It'll probably end up at the shop. It may not be worth fixing. We'll see.

jbrob007

I have a 86.5 and its a blast to drive! Yours looks like a nice ride. If you have a good 928 Club in VA you should be able to get a couple of guys to help you knock it out in a weekend. A TB/WP job isnt "easy" per se, but its not hard either... Buy some pizza, a case of beer, gather the tools & parts and go for it. I've heard on here that the Conti belt tends to stretch... I'd replace it with a Gates belt and a Porkensioner so the oil filled tensioner will be a thing of the past. I wouldnt throw in the towel just yet...

Captain_Slow

Yes jbrob007...I really like 86.5s. And I like them in black.

Surprisingly, it's economical for me to keep this 928 and pay a great mechanic to service it (with 1 year/12,000 mile warranties on all work). First, the 928 was cheaper to buy and continue to service over 5 years than buying any DESIRABLE NEW car, and probably less expensive than a newer used car with it's own set of problems. Taxes, insurance, and antique tags are also lower annual 928 ownership costs compared to anything newer. Second, my mortgage payment is less than half what it used to be (moved from a big house an hour away on 5 high-maintenance acres to a condo just a 20 minute walk from work). To own a house with garage in this part of Fairfax would easily add $800 to $1000 to a monthly mortgage payment. Special tools like lift bars, presses, etc. cost money, too. Very quickly I realized paying for "expensive" top quality service with warranty was a relative bargain spread out over time. I figure my costs will be about $150 per month over 5 years if I fix ALL the big things during this time frame, including rebuilding the TT with SuperBearings, Super Clamp, and replace the TC bearings and seals. It's really not extreme considering the fun and other rewards of driving a 928. The key is avoiding the temptation of doing too many "I want" upgrades during the first 3-5 years. But before I do any of the TT/TC work the crank end play will be checked and will look carefully for other evidence of Thrust Bearing wear. At the last oil change the flex plate was released and it snapped back 3-4 mm, which is acceptable. So far so good.

Yesterday was a freakout moment when the tension warning light came on and I saw the belt right on the edge of the cam gears, and clean oil apparently leaking from the tensioner. Reading a thread posted by a guy back in 2005 turned my anxiety up to eleven. He observed the same belt position, tension warning light, and a noise that I noticed after reading his post-- all kinds of warnings from others saying do not start the engine. Today I'm just hoping my USAA towing coverage will include this trip from my house to the shop. Winter months are perfect time to get it in the shop, ready for spring driving season.

jbrob007

Looks like you won that argument with yourself... Sounds like your keeping her...

BTW, I'm partial to Grand Prix White with a stripper posing on the hood

Stromius

You stand at the precipice of a learning opportunity (or pay your mechanic to). Seriously find the space, modest tools and some locals to help you know your car better. I did it 3 years ago for the first time. Lucky for you, it is so well documented on this thread, you will be fine.

I replaced my first TB (Conti) and WP (Laso gen1) and updated the tensioner. This helped my confidence to tackle other projects too.

blown 87

I am going to give you folks some insight as to why shops put on Conti belts, it is because they are the cheapest ones they can buy and they can still mark it up to factory list price.
It damn sure is not because it is a better belt.

Captain_Slow

Stromius,
I would like to do it, but really don't have a place to do it and no time. I am not afraid to work on it. I changed the clutch in my Unimog 404 and that required removing the floor of the cab, windshield, radiator, hoisting the engine 11 inches to the front, supporting the transmission/torque tube (Mogs have front and rear torque tubes). I replace the clutch through the floor of the cab. It took 3 days - but only about 30 minutes to do the clutch part!! Germans like to design vehicles that need to be taken apart to do the simple jobs

I'm not part of a local 928 club and don't know anyone close by who owns one. Still have the problem of where to do the job. With help lined up I could rent a storage unit out in the Valley for a month for under $200. No power there, but could use a generator. Still...I won't have time to do it until late summer. I'll be asia a few times before then.

Thanks for the encouragement. I do like to do my own work. I know the feeling of accomplishment and confidence boost.