polecat702

My 87 Aerocoupe is a factory original unrestored car. For show purposes, expendables; tires, belts, hoses, etc, aren't counted by the CCCA in concours events. So long as factory correct replacements are used. Coker Tire has made a fortune making replacement tires, that are factory looking originals, yet are modern "Safe Radials" so an owner can drive and enjoy his classic.

I've replaced almost everything in my 87 S4 that was missing when I bought it 3 years ago, like the lug wrench, air compressor, under carpet padding, factory tools, etc. but these things add up fast money wise. But it's a hobby car, and a continual work in progress. I think that's why we enjoy these cars so much.

Alan

Well - the question posed was what is "originality" not what is "original" so actually one can interpret this quite differently to mean virtually the opposite of where most are going...

o·rig·i·nal·i·ty   

1. The quality or state of being original.

2. Ability to think or express oneself in an independentand individual manner; creative ability.

3. Freshness or novelty, as of an idea, method, or performance.

So maybe a bright pink 928 with a gold lame interior a chevy turbo engine and a ferrari transmission would be demonstrating close to the ultimate in originality....

Alan

Hilton

Bright pink 928? Like the attachments? (sadly not mine.. but its a 5-speed Koenig-modified RHD 928S (4.7 "Euro"), and if I had space, I'd like to own it)

Jim - in the cases of 1 and 6, I'd say originality means preserving as much of the original car's fabric as possible.

For example - the cross member. Is it better to chemically and mechanically strip it and powder coat in black, or replace completely with a perfect NOS 1977 cross member? My opinion is that preserving the original cross-member has greater originality, although maybe less authenticity.

Thus, restoration of the original car would be my preference. Stripping and re-plating metal lines/bolts/washers, re-coating coated items (cross member, rear suspension arms, etc.) - giving the car's aged and worn components as good a chance as possible of avoiding the ravages of further corrosion and rot.

Sure it would be nice to have them in as-left-the-showroom condition, however, there will always be compromises made, so my personal view is to be original, the goal should be to restore the appearance of factory, using modern alternatives in cases where "factory new" isn't feasible without discarding a component.

Ultra-low-miles "original" cars are a different story to "survivors". The 312 mile GT Rob mentions is a purely original car. However it will never have the survivor story and history that #1 and #6 have, and that story as survivors is supported by their physical presence. Hence IMHO restoration should be about their preservation, with a nod to factory appearance.

#1 and #6 were never "showroom" cars - so returning them to showroom condition seems a little odd

Alan

Yep thats originality for sure - and I doubt anyone will try to copy it !

Eeek!

Alan

heinrich

Agreed.

heinrich

You (we) have basically two choices.

1) keep it concours stock
- this can be very rewarding because the car holds excelllent value. MUST not drive the car really, because original tyres are required and even air and oil filters, as well as LOW MILES. If you're going to put miles on the car, forget about this option. You will sit with something you cannot use and when you die, it will get sold at low price or parted out.

2) upgrade at will. YOU bought it, it is for your enjoyment. Do as you please.

As for me, I prefer an apdated car I can enjoy to its fullest. And if I see a stock car of any year next to an updated one with bigger wheels and safer parts like Porkensioner and so-on, I will go for the updated car.

Marine Blue

Don't let concours prevent you from driving a car guys. When I had my GT I put 6000 miles on it in the 2.5 years I owned it. Yeah I didn't take it on long trips to SITM but I did enjoy it. In the time I owned the car nothing cosmetically deteriorated, I was just careful and took good care of it. So if you want to get into concours go for it but definitely get out there and drive the car too! Would be a waste to have a car that you can only look at.

soontobered84

Although original, I would NEVER replace aluminum balljoints with another set of aluminum balljoints.

These cars were meant to be driven, not just looked at.

Ilike928

May be hard to define what original is, but it's sure easy to see what it is not:

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ml#post8896065

These jet engine sounds crack me up. Time to wake up the neighbors!

GregBBRD

For me, originality is totally about where the car is going to be seen and what it represents.

If the car is represented to be a museum piece...it better have the aluminum ball joints in place.

If the car is a local concours car, it needs to be pretty original, but for me, there is room for modications.

If the car is a national concours car...it's going to need to be pretty close to the museum piece...but I'd centainly allow steel ball joints.

It's important to know what "standards" one has.

For me, even on one of my "restorods"....the "headstamps" on the bolts need to all match and be proper....hell, I "freak" out when the headstamps on the bolts are not all the same on a stock rebuild.
(So, even when I do a stock rebuild transmission, the headstamps on the bolts for the rear cover and the side flanges are going to be all the same.)

I can't sleep if things like this are not proper.

linderpat

I don't know about that Wally - that 6k mile 86.5 may qualify right now as is.

CUJaysfan

I'm glad this thread popped up - as this is something I've been thinking about.

I have a black on black '78 5 speed OB.

However - it's got 148k on it - so I'm not sure there is a whole lot of point in either keeping it original - or restoring it to original. This is what I'm most interested in from the gang here - whatcha think?

I'm leaning towards "freshening" it up some. For example:

Mine is on left - but I'm thinking about rims like on the right here

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...hecompare.jpg/

(Btw - the bra is off it - that's a pic from the CL listing when I bought the thing)

I've been really intrigued by the center console update thread. I like the idea of integrating the HVAC, stereo, and navigation. Plus it'll modernize her up a little, although I'm a little bummed that the sharktuner software doesn't do anything for the '78.

Going to get some new seats - mine are pretty worn. Probably some carpet eventually - a few cracks in the dash that will need to be replaced eventually and some new panels for the rear area that have pulled away from the body.

I'll post some pics soon - along with story of my mechanic ordeal - should have my hands on her by Fri - only 10 weeks after I dropped it off.

brutus

WOW ten weeks in the shop ! if they only worked on it 6 hrs per day that is about 300 hours and if the rate is 100/ hour. Sounds like $30,000, that would be an ordeal. But they probably tore it apart one day and put it back together nine and one half weeks later.

Jadz928

Great responses! Sorry it took so long to get back to this. Been really thinking about all you've said.

I think I'm with Afshin on this one. It does depend on context. What is it you really want to do with the car?

I own a few 928's, so I'm all over the map on this one.
I have Perl ('87 S4) set up as a slightly modded, driver. Is it a rare car? Well kindof, but not really in the grand scheme of things, compared to an 89GT, or GTS. So I have fun with it but am mindful not to destroy what it is that makes it special.

The #6 car is special, and want to preserve it as an original "survivor". Most of the efforts I've put into it so far is to bring it back to original RoW trim (installed H4's, removed add-on corner markers, etc.)
I'm going to do this least amount "restoration" to it, and keep it very low impact.

The #1 is purely simple, and the decision on what to do with the car is driven by the car itself, by what it is. This is one I haven't a choice in. It will be restored back to original fit and finish.

So, if you're going to drive the car, do what needs to be done to be safe.
Steel LBS's makes sense, I did it to the #6 car.
If the car goes in for a total restoration someday by someone, they might choose to go back to original fitment. No big deal.

FWIW, there are very few truly original cars out there. 78's & 79's has mufflers that rusted out, and most have aftermarket now.
Same with windshields... hard to find the early bronze ones anymore.
Radios, etc.

What's my point? In most cases, I say do what you want. In some cases, I say be mindful of the car your own.
I believe originality has everything to do with how Porsche intended them to be, at their time of release. I think an 89 GT is nearly perfect. I think the spoiler-less, sunroof-less, rubstrip-less are purely beautiful.

Thanks for all your feedback. I'd really like to keep this going....

Technically, it has already started. However, it will be many years before the car "goes under the knife".

Rob Edwards

Anyone that is eventually going to shoot for a 100 point car either better already have a 100 point car, or they ought to be beating the bushes for the parts that are going to allow a 100 point car. Exterior rubber trim and good interior pieces are only going to be available new (or as excellent used) pieces for only so much longer, and used parts only by attrition of others.

I'm slowly taking the 'Shawshank Redemption' approach with amassing what it would take to make the 90GT a 100 point car- 1 or a few parts at a time, bought quietly, receipts dumped in the prison yard, slowly amassing bits until everything is in place where I could complete a sympathetic restoration back to as-new condition. I have an embarrassing amount of original rubber trim and gasket pieces in the garage...