didn't pass yearly official vehicle inspection (tie rod video)
10-16-2011, 11:02 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
didn't pass yearly official vehicle inspection (tie rod video)
...but they are really good news!. I'll explain. 3 years car stoped by PO, many months doing many tasks (a lot of work yet to do), but I thought now was the time to try to pass the yearly safe inspection, which is mandatory here (in Spain) for vehicles with more than 4 years to be able to circulate.
I suppose in usa you have something similar, dont know the name. Here I think they are very meticulous. They inspect from lights, CO, suspension, brakes, steering, etc.
Well, the car didn't pass the exam, but for 30$ they have made a complete inspection with tools I havent access to, which is great, and this are the results:
NEGATIVE. 2 Reasons:
-TIRES: less than 1,6mm in the tire draw. (no problem, new bridgstone's on the way, I already had that in mind).
-TIE ROD: too much play at LEFT/DRIVERS SIDE.
The inspector ask me to step out of the car and go with him to the pit under the car (they never do that but I suppose he liked the 928). And then point me where the problem was, he pointed to the black boot that covers the inner tie rod at the drivers side.
At home I have been studing what a tie rod is
. And after reading many posts here at rennlist, I would like to show you a video with some tests I made to hear opinions.
(ps.- don't be afraid by some jack stands in the video, they are not holding anything, are only for redundant safety).
I see sometimes problem is the inner, other times outer (to me seems inner-left the one making clonk-clonk). Being logical, I think is better to replace both inner and outer and both sides, left and right, at the same time. What I have in mind is ordering two sets of complete tie rods assemblies, the ones from Lemforder seem good quality, at pelican. This one:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...36%2E%35%29%20
Not sure if I will need any more parts/tools. I read releasing the inner has it's tricks. I will be patient.
Love to hear any comment about what you see in the video or any advice for installation will be great too. Thanks a lot.
I suppose in usa you have something similar, dont know the name. Here I think they are very meticulous. They inspect from lights, CO, suspension, brakes, steering, etc.
Well, the car didn't pass the exam, but for 30$ they have made a complete inspection with tools I havent access to, which is great, and this are the results:
NEGATIVE. 2 Reasons:
-TIRES: less than 1,6mm in the tire draw. (no problem, new bridgstone's on the way, I already had that in mind).
-TIE ROD: too much play at LEFT/DRIVERS SIDE.
The inspector ask me to step out of the car and go with him to the pit under the car (they never do that but I suppose he liked the 928). And then point me where the problem was, he pointed to the black boot that covers the inner tie rod at the drivers side.
At home I have been studing what a tie rod is
. And after reading many posts here at rennlist, I would like to show you a video with some tests I made to hear opinions.(ps.- don't be afraid by some jack stands in the video, they are not holding anything, are only for redundant safety).
I see sometimes problem is the inner, other times outer (to me seems inner-left the one making clonk-clonk). Being logical, I think is better to replace both inner and outer and both sides, left and right, at the same time. What I have in mind is ordering two sets of complete tie rods assemblies, the ones from Lemforder seem good quality, at pelican. This one:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...36%2E%35%29%20
Not sure if I will need any more parts/tools. I read releasing the inner has it's tricks. I will be patient.
Love to hear any comment about what you see in the video or any advice for installation will be great too. Thanks a lot.
10-16-2011, 11:27 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Joaquin,
Sorry to hear that you failed inspection, but there is quite a bit of looseness in the video.
If you look at the video starting at around 00:35, you will see the rod from the steering rack moving from side-to-side also. As you move the wheel a little, the steering-rack rod should not move. If you move the wheel farther, so that the steering-wheel also moves, then the rack rod should move in and out, but not side-to-side.
The side-to-side motion is a worn bushing in the rack itself. It will need to be replaced with a rebuilt rack.
The tie-rods may also be worn, in addition. You can check those with your fingers: Have a helper move the steering wheel back and forth a small amount, with the wheels on the ground. Reach under and place your fingers over the ball-joint where the tie-rod meets the steering rack rod-- if the tie-rod (ball) and the socket move together, then they are OK. If you feel motion between the ball and socket (the tie-rod moves, the socket does not), then it is loose and needs to be replaced also. Check both the inner and outer end of the tie-rod, although the inner end (at the rack) is where the trouble usually is.
Sorry to hear that you failed inspection, but there is quite a bit of looseness in the video.
If you look at the video starting at around 00:35, you will see the rod from the steering rack moving from side-to-side also. As you move the wheel a little, the steering-rack rod should not move. If you move the wheel farther, so that the steering-wheel also moves, then the rack rod should move in and out, but not side-to-side.
The side-to-side motion is a worn bushing in the rack itself. It will need to be replaced with a rebuilt rack.
The tie-rods may also be worn, in addition. You can check those with your fingers: Have a helper move the steering wheel back and forth a small amount, with the wheels on the ground. Reach under and place your fingers over the ball-joint where the tie-rod meets the steering rack rod-- if the tie-rod (ball) and the socket move together, then they are OK. If you feel motion between the ball and socket (the tie-rod moves, the socket does not), then it is loose and needs to be replaced also. Check both the inner and outer end of the tie-rod, although the inner end (at the rack) is where the trouble usually is.
10-16-2011, 11:28 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Am I seeing things or are both your tie rod boots off? Just for demonstration perhaps?
On the first part of video (left I think) the steering rack looks loose so at the very least new Delrin bushings to replace the old ones (ROG100 has these). Think your steering rack might be ready for a replacement along with fresh tie rods if those rods though
On the first part of video (left I think) the steering rack looks loose so at the very least new Delrin bushings to replace the old ones (ROG100 has these). Think your steering rack might be ready for a replacement along with fresh tie rods if those rods though
10-17-2011, 12:24 AM
#4
Sorry, but how did you not feel or hear that while driving? Glad someone caught it for you before you had an accident.
10-17-2011, 02:03 AM
#5
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Those are worn out, and I suspect that rack is not well.
The rack bushings are toast also.
I am willing to be that it would not hurt to do the upper boots, lower ball joints, inner and outer tie rods, rack and solid rack bushings.
The rack bushings are toast also.
I am willing to be that it would not hurt to do the upper boots, lower ball joints, inner and outer tie rods, rack and solid rack bushings.
10-17-2011, 04:54 AM
#6
Rennlist Member
Hi Joaquin
What all the others have said is good advice. Great to hear that you've finally got the motor going well.
Take the rack out and do all the things that have been mentioned to get all that play out.
I also noticed that you still have the aluminium lower ball joint carriers, which Greg noted would be worth replacing. They may be OK now, but it's best to replace them with steel ones to avoid a disastrous failure. Once they start wearing they can fail very quickly and you can get a front wheel collapse outward. As you're going to have to do a a wheel alignment you are best to do everything that needs doing on the front suspension in one go.
The pics below show what the aluminium ones you have now look like ... and the steel ones that are the replacement. There is a section in the WSM that covers what you need to do to change them over. You need to get a few new parts with them for the change over.
I'd also add new wheel bearings to the list of parts. They're cheap and worth doing while you're at it.
What all the others have said is good advice. Great to hear that you've finally got the motor going well.
Take the rack out and do all the things that have been mentioned to get all that play out.
I also noticed that you still have the aluminium lower ball joint carriers, which Greg noted would be worth replacing. They may be OK now, but it's best to replace them with steel ones to avoid a disastrous failure. Once they start wearing they can fail very quickly and you can get a front wheel collapse outward. As you're going to have to do a a wheel alignment you are best to do everything that needs doing on the front suspension in one go.
The pics below show what the aluminium ones you have now look like ... and the steel ones that are the replacement. There is a section in the WSM that covers what you need to do to change them over. You need to get a few new parts with them for the change over.
I'd also add new wheel bearings to the list of parts. They're cheap and worth doing while you're at it.
10-17-2011, 05:23 AM
#7
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I agree pretty much with everything that has already been said.
Sounds like you are already committed to Tie rods, and you should definitely do the lower aluminium ball joints as well.
However you should first check wheel bearing play (I thought I saw some in the Video)
The easy way to do this is to repeat the checks you did in the video (no need to video it) but this time get your assistant to press the brake pedal, (pressing the brake pedal clamps the brake disc and stops any movement there may be in the wheel bearing) then compare movement without the brake pedal pressed.
You definitely have some movement inside the steering rack and ultimately need to be rebuilt, however I think there was more play in the steering rack mounting bushings (You can see the whole rack move up and down). Knowing that it will be more difficult to get a rebuilt rack in Spain than it is in the US, I would be very tempted to do the tie rods, ball joints and rack mount bushings, check and or adjust the wheel bearings if necessary but leave rebuilding the rack for now and see how much play disappears. It may be enough to make your 928 pass the inspection. Then you can change the rack at a later date.
Sounds like you are already committed to Tie rods, and you should definitely do the lower aluminium ball joints as well.
However you should first check wheel bearing play (I thought I saw some in the Video)
The easy way to do this is to repeat the checks you did in the video (no need to video it) but this time get your assistant to press the brake pedal, (pressing the brake pedal clamps the brake disc and stops any movement there may be in the wheel bearing) then compare movement without the brake pedal pressed.
You definitely have some movement inside the steering rack and ultimately need to be rebuilt, however I think there was more play in the steering rack mounting bushings (You can see the whole rack move up and down). Knowing that it will be more difficult to get a rebuilt rack in Spain than it is in the US, I would be very tempted to do the tie rods, ball joints and rack mount bushings, check and or adjust the wheel bearings if necessary but leave rebuilding the rack for now and see how much play disappears. It may be enough to make your 928 pass the inspection. Then you can change the rack at a later date.
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10-17-2011, 06:49 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
^^^^ What Jon said re doing everything else, and then see whether you can postpone a rack rebuild, sounds like a good plan.
Another thing to check .... when you do the wheel bearings post a pic of the clean spindle, before you refit the hub with new wheel bearings. When bearings have been left too loose, or have been overtightened, you can get some wear of the underside of the spindle, which means you can never get all the play out of the wheel even when correctly adjusted.
Another thing to check .... when you do the wheel bearings post a pic of the clean spindle, before you refit the hub with new wheel bearings. When bearings have been left too loose, or have been overtightened, you can get some wear of the underside of the spindle, which means you can never get all the play out of the wheel even when correctly adjusted.
10-21-2011, 07:47 AM
#9
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thank you all for your answers. I have been studying your advices. I have all the suspension/steering schemas printed and all parts marked. I have read many posts about it and I will be doing everything you say.
But as advised by Jon in the last posts... in two steps.
FIRST:
TIE RODS: complete (inner and outer ball joints change for a new lemforder tie rods).
RACK BUSHINGS: I'll get the 4 new solid bushings from 928motorsports.
WHEEL BEARINGS: All 4 new, also new sealing ring (I will post a picture of the spindle before fitting them in as Dave ask me).
---
Here I will pass the safety inspection without having to pay anything more (for doing it in less than a month) and they will only re-check the left inner tie rod and new tires which suspended the previous check. I will not drive the car until I change the lower aluminum ball joints.
SECOND (already ordering in the same shipment):
UPPER BOOT: Probably getting this kit.
LOWER BALL JOINT: changing aluminium for steel. Here I have a doubt: I read that you could use two of the old eccentrics with the new ball joint, so you only need two new. My doubt is which part to get for the two new eccentrics. I see 928-341-466-00 is 150$ each eccentric and 928-341-466-01 at pelican is 30$. Not sure if the 466-01 will fit in the new steel lower ball joint or If I will have to order the 466-00 (150$ each). Any help to clarify this will be really welcome.
So the order I have in mind for the lower will be:
Lower Ball joint: 928-341-049-12-M69
Only two new eccentrics (and re-use two older): Could be those from Pelican for 30$?
I will be using the old clips too: I read you could, the only problem is that it is longer and some thread will overpass the hole. I think that's not problem.
THIRD:
After re-inspecting all the changes and how they have affected the 'too much play' movement of the steering (I will post a video), I will decide to get or not a rebuilt rack then. At least I will already have the rest of the steering system brand new...
ps.
@jcorenman, @greg, direct to the problems. Thanks!.
@Jon, your last paragraph has been gold.
@Dave, I will change the lower and post a pic of the spindle to see how it has suffered before reinstalling bearings.
@Stromius, the boot is removed for showing the rod entering the rack. It was in place before shooting the video.
@Adamant1971, I didn't feel it because it was the previous owner the one that forgot to take care of the car. I have only used the car in a few trips around the block for testing things during the wake up process.
But as advised by Jon in the last posts... in two steps.
FIRST:
TIE RODS: complete (inner and outer ball joints change for a new lemforder tie rods).
RACK BUSHINGS: I'll get the 4 new solid bushings from 928motorsports.
WHEEL BEARINGS: All 4 new, also new sealing ring (I will post a picture of the spindle before fitting them in as Dave ask me).
---
Here I will pass the safety inspection without having to pay anything more (for doing it in less than a month) and they will only re-check the left inner tie rod and new tires which suspended the previous check. I will not drive the car until I change the lower aluminum ball joints.
SECOND (already ordering in the same shipment):
UPPER BOOT: Probably getting this kit.
LOWER BALL JOINT: changing aluminium for steel. Here I have a doubt: I read that you could use two of the old eccentrics with the new ball joint, so you only need two new. My doubt is which part to get for the two new eccentrics. I see 928-341-466-00 is 150$ each eccentric and 928-341-466-01 at pelican is 30$. Not sure if the 466-01 will fit in the new steel lower ball joint or If I will have to order the 466-00 (150$ each). Any help to clarify this will be really welcome.
So the order I have in mind for the lower will be:
Lower Ball joint: 928-341-049-12-M69
Only two new eccentrics (and re-use two older): Could be those from Pelican for 30$?
I will be using the old clips too: I read you could, the only problem is that it is longer and some thread will overpass the hole. I think that's not problem.
THIRD:
After re-inspecting all the changes and how they have affected the 'too much play' movement of the steering (I will post a video), I will decide to get or not a rebuilt rack then. At least I will already have the rest of the steering system brand new...
ps.
@jcorenman, @greg, direct to the problems. Thanks!.
@Jon, your last paragraph has been gold.
@Dave, I will change the lower and post a pic of the spindle to see how it has suffered before reinstalling bearings.
@Stromius, the boot is removed for showing the rod entering the rack. It was in place before shooting the video.
@Adamant1971, I didn't feel it because it was the previous owner the one that forgot to take care of the car. I have only used the car in a few trips around the block for testing things during the wake up process.
Last edited by rockatansky; 10-21-2011 at 08:25 AM. Reason: aswering some comments
10-21-2011, 10:18 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
Here is the WSM page that refers to the modifications to the ball joints and eccentrics. You can see which eccentrics you need ... but you'll get used ones for a fraction of the price.
You can use the old mount ... the thread will just project 5mm more.
By the way ... I've used delrin rack bushings and they firm up the rack well without being too harsh. Others should be able to comment on how solid alloy rack bushings feel.
You can use the old mount ... the thread will just project 5mm more.
By the way ... I've used delrin rack bushings and they firm up the rack well without being too harsh. Others should be able to comment on how solid alloy rack bushings feel.
10-21-2011, 12:36 PM
#11
Instructor
Thread Starter
Ok thanks. I knew the page, but it doesn't got me out of my doubts when I read it. I was trying to know if the .01 part from pelican will work to avoid having to make another order for 928intl for an used .00 part (shiping will be more than the part itself).
Sad is that .00 at pelican is 150$ and I dont find any used parts there.
Sad is that .00 at pelican is 150$ and I dont find any used parts there.
10-21-2011, 04:00 PM
#12
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I would leave the wheel bearings alone unless they are clearly due to be replaced.
Btw. There's a company close to me in Germany which rebuilds upper (and lower) arms. So instead replacing the upper boot, you could get a completely refurbished A-arm. I have done this and the quality is superb. Carls kit is way cheaper though but addresses the upper boot. I think he has A-arm bushings as well.
Btw. There's a company close to me in Germany which rebuilds upper (and lower) arms. So instead replacing the upper boot, you could get a completely refurbished A-arm. I have done this and the quality is superb. Carls kit is way cheaper though but addresses the upper boot. I think he has A-arm bushings as well.
10-21-2011, 05:18 PM
#14
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If you daily drive the car and your roads are not mirror smooth you may want to reconsider the solid aluminum rack bushings and go with the Derlin ones. Solid bushings transmit much more road shock through the steering into the chassis. IMHO not good.
10-21-2011, 05:43 PM
#15
Instructor
Thread Starter
@Aryan, could you please extend about why you think is better to leave alone the wheel bearings?. Now I'm not sure how they are, but being an inexpensive part and doing works down there, thought could be a good time to check/change...
@JHowell37. Good to know. Upper kit from Carl is already on the way, but I still havent ordered the parts needed from 928intl, so is good to know that. You mean this ones (431 407 377 A for 19$):
http://www.mailordercentral.com/928i...0407%20377%20A
@dcrasta, solid bushings are already on the way so no way reconsidering. Read good things about Carl's solid ones and also I see mine crushed (I suppose those has been there for the last 31 years, not sure), that's why I went for the solid.
@JHowell37. Good to know. Upper kit from Carl is already on the way, but I still havent ordered the parts needed from 928intl, so is good to know that. You mean this ones (431 407 377 A for 19$):
http://www.mailordercentral.com/928i...0407%20377%20A
@dcrasta, solid bushings are already on the way
so no way reconsidering. Read good things about Carl's solid ones and also I see mine crushed (I suppose those has been there for the last 31 years, not sure), that's why I went for the solid.