SteveG

If I'm not mistaken these are some of the same people that have said, "It's only getting broken in at 300,000." OK, so they were exaggerating.

Grist for the mill on the other points: I think end play measurement is a requirement and not just looking at the flex plate, but if then how is this car even running? It doesn't sound like the PO has spent time checking it, or he would have give more details on this issue. Psychoanalyzing owners is crazy (ha), but GTS autos are more likely than any other to have been babied.

I don't think all the fun has been driven out of it, but you can get just as much fun spending $15K on a nice S4 and have more peace of mind. OTH, you purposely I believe haven't said what your budget is and if you want a GTS, this may be a way there on a budget. But it probably needs a lot of parts and labor; paint aside, this could get expensive. The $33K GTS on ebay, may be a better deal overall. Or, Do you like wrenching?

the flyin' scotsman

Its a great debate of a low mile car thats +20YO or a high mile car that slightly younger.........whats more wore out if all 'regular' maintenance is done?

In this case Id stay clear as it may need everything so keep in mind the end state will still be a refurb 'car thats still +18 YO with high miles and low resale.

Another great debate is street performance where the S4, GT and GTS are not all that far apart for everyday driving.............so Id buy a well maintained '89 5 speed S4 rare?...yes, very.

pmichaelg

Thanks for the feedback everyone - much appreciated! Seems like there is a wide range of thought on this. I also appreciate the S4 purchase price datapoints.

Some answers to your specific questions and additional thoughts…

Paint:
The hood and front fenders have some issues but possibly with some touch up, they would be OK. There is some wear on the rear bumper near the hatch - like someone rubbing against it while loading/unloading. There is also some fading around the sunroof which could possibly be buffed out. All in all, you could do just the front bumper and rear wing and have pretty good paint.

Flexplate Release:
I do not know how often this was done but I will check. I just know he stated that the crank endplay was measured recently and was in spec. With a PPI, I would plan to measure this again.

Please bear with me on this as I've just learned about this in the last week. My understanding is the flexplate release is "preventive maintenance" for the thrust bearing failure. If the PPI comes back with the crank endplay in spec, do I really care how often the flexplate release was done? If it is in spec, then I am good, right? Moving forward, I would regularly perform the flexplate release job to help ensure it stays in spec. Or am I missing something here???

Mechanicals:
A couple of you are saying it is impossible to put a value on the car without know more history. Can you provide more details on what you are looking for? I could probably get an answer. From my observation, this is a very well sorted car with a couple of minor nits. No leaks. Recent work includes: new tires, shocks, TB/WP somewhat fresh, recent alignment, etc. No major work has been performed on engine or tranny aside from servicing. He's got lots of records - I just don't recall any more of what has been done.

He's taken the car to two well respected 928 mechanics in our area and I do trust that he's taken care of things along the way. He is very active in the local Porsche club activities.

Mileage:
Yes - 175K miles in the last 7 years!!! But easy miles… He's in sales and travels the upper midwest in the car (non-winter months). Lots of interstate miles on it.

I am a bit surprised at some of the negative responses on this. Yes - this definitely impacts the market value of this car and its salability and that is why I am asking my questions. OTOH, what surprises me is the suggestion that this car is on its last legs. I’ve always been of the belief that these cars, if maintained and driven sympathetically, could last forever. But that was 14 years ago when I owned my last 928…

Misc:
“There is no such thing as a cheap Ferrari”. “It takes a rich man to own a cheap Porsche”. Amen. Totally understood. However… I believe it is possible to purchase a very solid Ferrari/Porsche/you-name-it at a lower price point solely because of mileage. Back in ’92, I bought my ’85 928S with 120K miles at a low price point and it was a great car.

Greg – I am not a betting man but if this comes to a PPI, I would take those 1 in 1,000 odds on crank end play! Wait a second… “I am not a betting man”… and I am looking at a 215K mile 928. Don’t laugh too hard…

Finally, to be clear about my plans for any potential 928 purchase, this would be for pleasure use only. It would be insured via agreed-value collector car policy. I would put relatively few miles on it though it would be driven regularly. Part of the appeal of this car is assuming the mechanicals are solid, I could drive and enjoy it immediately and address the cosmetics as time/effort/energy allows, thus, keeping that aspect of ownership enjoyable. Compared to a lot of you guys, I am a rookie mechanic but I did enjoy working on my ’85 but also knew my limitations.

Steve – you are correct. I have not mentioned my budget. In a sense, I am not sure if that info is needed here since my primary question is “what is the market value of the car”. If that answer doesn’t work for me and, just as importantly, doesn’t work for the current owner, then I’ll move on. I will say that my budget is pretty much based on what you can get a solid S4 for.

S4ordie

Assuming the car has been well maintained, to include recent replacement of all the soft parts (fuel lines for example) and Intake refresh, etc., I estimate this car to be worth $14,897.23-ish. The big things are expensive to repair on these cars as are lots of little things.

I love the color combo.

Tom in Austin

I think you're right, everyone comes at this question from different angles ... viewed through the prism of their own objectives and experience. With only 406 made for North America, GTS's are very rare and I think this opens up a lot of conflicting ideas when someone wants to enjoy one for 'pleasure use' and doesn't have 'collectability' as an objective for ownership.

IMO, the general aversion to/fear of 'high miles' gives you the potential to own one of these special cars for a pretty reasonable initial purchase price.

EspritS4s

I don't think you'll get much more in the way of price feedback than this. "Market Price" is a tricky phrase when it comes to 928s, particularly GTSs. The value of those wide hips appears to be a very personal preference. Some place a lot of value in that GTS badge, others very little. From a purely rational standpoint (well at least once you decide to buy a 928), a well cared for S4 is a far better purchase than a beater GTS ... unless you really want a GTS. It's very difficult to assign a collector/rarity premium to an ultra-high mileage example when there are plenty of lower mileage examples on the market (or at least in existence).

Part of the challenge with a price, is that we haven't seen many GTSs with that kind of mileage on the market. You won't get a consensus target by which to judge if you are getting a deal, and it may not matter if the seller isn't motivated to sell. Heinrich recently offered his roller, which also has some cosmetic issues, for $10K. I didn't see much in the way of negative feedback on that price; although, it didn't sell before he decided to keep it. We've seen a few GTSs offered in the $22K-$27k range in recent years as well. You could view those values as bookends. Most of them come to market at over $30K, but those cars are in a different league from this one (usually).

Randy V

Some of you folks are conflicted.

In a previous thread I opined about what car to get after the 928 and pretty much everyone poo-pooed the idea as the 928 will 'last forever as long as it is properly maintained'.

Then others are proclaiming a death sentence at anything over 150,000 miles.



I paid $23K for my '94 with 140K miles on it seven years ago.

The example here is significantly longer in the tooth, so $15K is about right.

blown 87

This bunch tends to be a negative bunch, and I also believe that if you repair what breaks, or is about to, you can drive one almost forever.

928er

as long as parts are available the 928 will live on. when critical components go NLA and there is no aftermarket solution the cars will die.

GregBBRD

Blue notes above.

Bill Ball

GB has seen a lot of messed up 928s and has concluded the motors and auto trannies will only last 150K miles before they need to be rebuilt. Maybe most are like this. I have one of the apparently rare ones that is still going strong with nothing to indicate (yet) that I have any need for intervention. It hasn't been babied, to say the least, but it has had regular (but not excessive) maintenance and inspection. I did pull the torque tube out recently and found there was no reason to rebuild or replace it, so I put it back in. That is an exception as even low mileage cars usually have obvious problems with this part. Even the original steering rack was fine when I replaced it a while ago in an attempt to resolve some oddball handling issues. Anyway, other than replacement of the axles due to split boots, rear main seal, motor mounts and pan gasket, wheel bearings, shocks and the inevitable LH brain failure, all of which I repaired/replaced myself, there hasn't been much to do on this car in the almost 12 years and over 165k miles I have owned it other than timing belts every 60K miles and other routine maintenance.

There's not much you can do but test drive the car, listen to it and do a few simple tests (leakdown, vacuum check, crank endplay), and inspect the wear parts and structural elements for evidence of accident repair. In terms of value, cosmetic condition is rather important since that is far more expensive to resolve than the expected mechanical repairs. Bad paint and any substantial interior defects would turn me off. During the last few production years of the 928, Porsche switched to water-based paints and it is not nearly as durable as the earlier generation. Most of the mid/late 80s 928s will have original paint which can be in remarkable condition, expecially if a solid color like mine, but only garage queen GTSs seem to look that good. If the interior is protected from direct sun when parked, it can look close to new even if high mileage like mine, but it is common to see splits in the pod and dash, warped interior panels, dry and worn leather and ratty carpets, all of which indicate it wasn't protected. The interior materials and contruction in these cars just will not stand up to the elements without good protection. Also, longterm outside parking even with protection of the interior will reek havoc with the electrical system and other parts due to repeated condensation cycles. Mine is garaged at night and has avoided the widespread corrosion I see on cars left outside all the time.

ashmason

Back in 1995 when I lived in England I picked up a 944 with 175,000 miles on it, all freeway miles. It was a solid car and yes things wore out on it but for the most part not all at once and I really enjoyed tinkering with it.

This experience recently encouraged me to pick up my 1990 928 GT with 187k, it's a California car that the previous owner had shipped to Colorado, and I went out there and brought it back home to So Cal. I snagged it for a little over $11k once you factor in my flight, gas to drive back to LA, plus overnight hotel stop.

Since then I have put approx $5k in to it, mostly new steering rack and pump, plus new shocks. I also had to source and buy a new spoiler, spoiler bracket and under tray. I need to have the seats redone, but am going with the Paul Champagne quilted backs so it will make it custom, and it will need a head refresh sooner than later, plus it needs some fresh paint on the nose as well.

Will I get my money back? Absolutely not, but then I am not planning on selling this car any time soon, its a second car for me and I just flat out enjoy bringing cars back up to scratch along with any tasteful (in my opinion) upgrades. As for driving it, I get to choose between my 04 Avalanche or the 928 to go to work in, unless I need my truck for surf, I take the Porsche every time

Seems like this GTS could be a bit of a rough diamond just like mine. As long as you have alternate backup transport, access to a good mechanic and some spare cash then purchase price becomes subjective and will be what you feel comfortable with. Since I got my GT, I have seen better deals, but I don't mind, I am happy with what I paid.

Folks are saying to go for an older car in better shape, and that is good advice, but then if you plan to be a long term owner I say go with what you feel you will enjoy. Deep pockets and lack of return on investment is consistent with any Porsche 928. Also in my experience an older lower mileage car can be just as prone to failure, especially if it does not get driven much.

I drive an immaculate S4 and it just didn't connect with me, my GT did. No idea why, but there it is.

Hope that helps, just my rambling thoughts.

danglerb

A PPI is essential in setting a value because it isn't checking a dozen things, its checking two dozen big things and a hundred or so smaller but still costly things.

Regular service is "nice", but I know people who take a car in and say make it perfect, and others who say see if you can get it running cheap.

The pool of potential buyers drops at various mileage points; 10k, 30k, 75k, 100k, 150k, and 200k. With a GTS my guess is maybe half the potential buyers have little interest in anything over 100k miles, and maybe only 10% or so will consider a 200k mile car and only with a much reduced price. The higher the mileage, the more critical the condition, since you are closer to the edge where a single high cost repair isn't practical.

SanDiego928

+1 on the 88 S4 in lieu of the GTS for sure. And I don't know hardly anything about these cars but this is a no brainer to me.

dprantl

300k miles an urban legend, and transmissions/engines lasting 150k miles Mine has 239k miles on it so far, it shifts the same way other borg/warner 5-speed 928's do with 1/4 the miles and the engine runs great. Oh, and I definitely do not baby it either running ~8psi. And the supercharger has been on since it had ~170k miles too.

Do the regular maintenance on time and a 928 will go at least 300k miles or more.

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft