Originally Posted by GregBBRD

On the surface, it is easy to agree with you....but look at the whole picture and it gets more complex.

I'm making the assumption that there are pieces that have been already replaced in the GTS engine and the bill is closer to 12K.....hell, its been assembled twice...something must have been replaced and is still good! Perhaps if it is a GTS engine with the "early" rods, perhaps you are correct, and it takes 15K to redo it.

Buying a used engine with 80,000 miles on it means, to me, that the intake system needs to be removed and redone. Might as well do the valve covers, while you are at it. (The original oil restrictors in the heads will need to be replaced to the updated style anyway.) The timing belt and water pump need to be done. Flywheel seal, front seal, oil pump reseal. The timing gears will probably be bad at that mileage. And god only knows what the rod bearings have been through and it will certainly need a pan gasket, anyway.

To me, that "used" engine is, at that point, two head gaskets away from being completely apart...

Heinrich can certainly use any of the "good" pieces that are on the GTS engine, for the GT engine....and I see he is going to do the labor, himself. Perhaps it does end up cheaper....

However, it seems like "cheaper" might be the cause of where the car is, right now....and is seldom the measure of a "quality" repair.

Then, there's the factor of what the "incorrect" engine in a very desireable (thus high value) GTS, does to the value of the car. I've got to think that the "incorrect" engine takes a minimum of 10K right off the top, of the value, of the vehicle.

I'm not aware of the complete history of this engine/vehicle, but quickly reading through Heinrich's description of what has happened, it would seem that by not using the "best" quality pieces or not using the "best" quality technician might be the cause of the "hole" that Heinrich is in, right now.

I've seen hundreds of "home grown" repairs and engines, in my life time. They almost never run or function correctly....most get sold for very low dollars.

I'd think that fixing the GTS engine once, fixing it correctly, and being done with it for the next 80,000+ miles is probably the best approach.

I know how hard it can be to write a big check to fix a car....I've sat at my desk many times and watched people do this. I've also sat there and watched people write a check for fixing the same thing two or three times (often, it takes people a while to find me....and I'll get things that have already been "repaired" by other shops, to "re-repair") ...and it seems like it is always harder for the customer to write this check.

Regardless of the cost, this is Heinrich's third check. In my experience, almost no one writes the fourth check....the car "goes away."

So, in my opinion, it will be better to "bite the bullet" and do it the correct way, in the first place....and always better to do it correctly the 2nd time. Not learning the lesson and not doing it correctly the third time is....well....you fill in the word.

I'm not the one writing the cehcks, so I don't get to choose how to do it...but if I was, I wouldn't be going down this path...again.

Originally Posted by heinrich

True Greg Not the one writing the repeated checks; not the one doing the work; not the one not driving the car basically since purchase 3 years ago.

I value your opinion of course. In this case, I have had excellent opinions from excellent people ... at the end of the day, those opinions are a factor to consider.

If you came to me to ask advice on how to fix a problem, and I told you, all you had to do was a list of things ... but I can't or won't do those things for you, and neither can you ... then my advice is less than useful. Again ... just pointing out the realities here, I do very much value your opinion, advice and skills.

I think there are 2 ways to look at this:

1) How sad. So much money lost, so much time lost, so much effort lost, and a more than one close friendship to boot, or...
2) Drive the f@cking car. After 3 years, having driven the car only 200 miles is unacceptable. Do whatever it takes to enjoy the car NOW. Who knows if there even IS another 3 years to give to the project? I know there isn't another $12,000 sitting in my pocket to throw at it, only to wonder if I should have replaced the rods just because ... or drilled the pistons just because ... or ultrasonically cleaned every part, replaced the oil cooler and lines, whatever.

I also think you may be missing the bottom line Greg. It has always been a risk-reward thing. In this case, to FULLY clear all risk, is simply too expensive, for any Porsche 928, no matter the miles, condition, whatever.

Let's say I drop a motor in at say $10,000 total cost today, and I drive it, and seals leak and so-on .... that's OK. Certainly not any worse than 90% of the 928's out there. And if it gets to the point where I need to do normal refresh or maintenance on it in a year ort 2, I will have gained one thing over spending money and time and end-of-rope energy on the GTS engine, and not driving the car:

I will be 2 years ahead on having driven my car.

Originally Posted by WallyP

And just think about the temptation factor of having a rebuildable GTS engine sitting in the shop, with absolutely no time pressure...

Build it as you want to, when you want to, and when/if you get it fixed, swap it out and sell the other engine.

Originally Posted by NeverLate

Yep.

Drive the GTS and take your time deciding what to do with the original engine.

Good luck H. Please keep us posted. -Ed

Originally Posted by GregBBRD

I'm not being critical. It isn't my money. It isn't my project.

I can only pass on things that I've seen and lessons I've learned.

Everything else is just theory.

You have to, in the end, choose your own path and live with your own decision.

Hopefully it will work out, for you.

I certainly hope it does.

Originally Posted by heinrich

Greg actually to me it's all theory, because none of it is practical for me, with a 17 year-old car with a max resale value of say $30k on a good day.