Cylinder heads question???
08-17-2011, 01:05 AM
#61
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I would pull them back off and clean them, the heads are going to be a lot easier to clean by them self than having to do the whole engine.
Or you can just take Carls word for it that they were ready to bolt on and take your chances.
Or you can just take Carls word for it that they were ready to bolt on and take your chances.
Today we decided to check the two big plugs on the heads, the inside are clean but no copper washers in both of them. They would have leak if we installed them,does any members know the torque specification for that two plug 22mm on the heads? pet no 9and 10. illustration 103-00. Thanks, the heads are fully assembled how the hell am i going to clean them after already bolted them on? Carl said they were good right out of the box with full assembly lube ready to install. We installed them and decided to replace the oil check valves and the rest are ??????? paid 810.00 plus my valve guides and valve stem seals
08-17-2011, 01:52 AM
#62
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Today we decided to check the two big plugs on the heads, the inside are clean but no copper washers in both of them. They would have leak if we installed them,does any members know the torque specification for that two plug 22mm on the heads? pet no 9and 10. illustration 103-00. Thanks, the heads are fully assembled how the hell am i going to clean them after already bolted them on? Carl said they were good right out of the box with full assembly lube ready to install. We installed them and decided to replace the oil check valves and the rest are ??????? paid 810.00 plus my valve guides and valve stem seals
For $810.00 plus your parts, the heads should have been surfaced, had the guides replaced and machined to size, had the valves and seats ground, be squeaky clean, had the valve springs individually checked and set-up to the correct installed height, with new oil galley plugs. They should have come in a sealed bag and you should be able to lick them...anywhere and everywhere.
Everyone makes mistakes. The true "test" of a quality business/person is how they handle the mistakes they make. Although Carl doesn't seem to have a great "track record" of making things "right" (witness the upper control arm thread).....you never know, until you ask.
Ask Carl to send a "call tag" for the heads and do the job over, correctly.
You won't be able to re-use the head gaskets, so since they told you the heads would be ready to install, I would expect that they would supply you with a new set of head gaskets....to "make things right."
Seems pretty simple, to me.
Everyone that agrees, please add a "+1" to this thread. That should give everyone involved an indication of how our community feels about things like this.
__________________
greg brown
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Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
08-17-2011, 02:01 AM
#63
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I agree plus one
Well, you paid enough for a "complete" head repair....not a "you need to take them completely back apart and clean them" head repair.
For $810.00 plus your parts, the heads should have been surfaced, had the guides replaced and machined to size, had the valves and seats ground, be squeaky clean, had the valve springs individually checked and set-up to the correct installed height, with new oil galley plugs. They should have come in a sealed bag and you should be able to lick them...anywhere and everywhere.
Everyone makes mistakes. The true "test" of a quality business/person is how they handle the mistakes they make. Although Carl doesn't seem to have a great "track record" of making things "right" (witness the upper control arm thread).....you never know, until you ask.
Ask Carl to send a "call tag" for the heads and do the job over, correctly.
You won't be able to re-use the head gaskets, so since they told you the heads would be ready to install, I would expect that they would supply you with a new set of head gaskets....to "make things right."
Seems pretty simple, to me.
Everyone that agrees, please add a "+1" to this thread. That should give everyone involved an indication of how our community feels about things like this.
For $810.00 plus your parts, the heads should have been surfaced, had the guides replaced and machined to size, had the valves and seats ground, be squeaky clean, had the valve springs individually checked and set-up to the correct installed height, with new oil galley plugs. They should have come in a sealed bag and you should be able to lick them...anywhere and everywhere.
Everyone makes mistakes. The true "test" of a quality business/person is how they handle the mistakes they make. Although Carl doesn't seem to have a great "track record" of making things "right" (witness the upper control arm thread).....you never know, until you ask.
Ask Carl to send a "call tag" for the heads and do the job over, correctly.
You won't be able to re-use the head gaskets, so since they told you the heads would be ready to install, I would expect that they would supply you with a new set of head gaskets....to "make things right."
Seems pretty simple, to me.
Everyone that agrees, please add a "+1" to this thread. That should give everyone involved an indication of how our community feels about things like this.
08-17-2011, 02:09 AM
#64
Be clear, those heads were absolutely ransacked. If they had been installed, it was not even the large amount if dirt that would have done them in, it would have been the valves breaking or the chain breaking from simple MONKEY-like improper machining.
You have to watch vendors Carl. Very closely- because its YOUR name here- not theirs.
08-17-2011, 02:19 AM
#66
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+1
Well, you paid enough for a "complete" head repair....not a "you need to take them completely back apart and clean them" head repair.
For $810.00 plus your parts, the heads should have been surfaced, had the guides replaced and machined to size, had the valves and seats ground, be squeaky clean, had the valve springs individually checked and set-up to the correct installed height, with new oil galley plugs. They should have come in a sealed bag and you should be able to lick them...anywhere and everywhere.
Everyone makes mistakes. The true "test" of a quality business/person is how they handle the mistakes they make. Although Carl doesn't seem to have a great "track record" of making things "right" (witness the upper control arm thread).....you never know, until you ask.
Ask Carl to send a "call tag" for the heads and do the job over, correctly.
You won't be able to re-use the head gaskets, so since they told you the heads would be ready to install, I would expect that they would supply you with a new set of head gaskets....to "make things right."
Seems pretty simple, to me.
Everyone that agrees, please add a "+1" to this thread. That should give everyone involved an indication of how our community feels about things like this.
For $810.00 plus your parts, the heads should have been surfaced, had the guides replaced and machined to size, had the valves and seats ground, be squeaky clean, had the valve springs individually checked and set-up to the correct installed height, with new oil galley plugs. They should have come in a sealed bag and you should be able to lick them...anywhere and everywhere.
Everyone makes mistakes. The true "test" of a quality business/person is how they handle the mistakes they make. Although Carl doesn't seem to have a great "track record" of making things "right" (witness the upper control arm thread).....you never know, until you ask.
Ask Carl to send a "call tag" for the heads and do the job over, correctly.
You won't be able to re-use the head gaskets, so since they told you the heads would be ready to install, I would expect that they would supply you with a new set of head gaskets....to "make things right."
Seems pretty simple, to me.
Everyone that agrees, please add a "+1" to this thread. That should give everyone involved an indication of how our community feels about things like this.
08-17-2011, 02:57 AM
#67
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CYLINDER HEADS
+1 ,to Carl as i need these heads to be corrected . If the engine gets destroyed by the machinist incompetence work of the cylinder heads i will contact my attorney. I have the receipt to prove it.
08-17-2011, 04:15 AM
#68
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He's got to know that he/his machine shop screwed up and that all all the "smoke" he's been putting out about the customer needing to clean the heads, after they are assembled, is absolute BS.
Give him the chance to make it right.
08-17-2011, 08:29 AM
#69
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Well, you paid enough for a "complete" head repair....not a "you need to take them completely back apart and clean them" head repair.
For $810.00 plus your parts, the heads should have been surfaced, had the guides replaced and machined to size, had the valves and seats ground, be squeaky clean, had the valve springs individually checked and set-up to the correct installed height, with new oil galley plugs. They should have come in a sealed bag and you should be able to lick them...anywhere and everywhere.
Everyone makes mistakes. The true "test" of a quality business/person is how they handle the mistakes they make. Although Carl doesn't seem to have a great "track record" of making things "right" (witness the upper control arm thread).....you never know, until you ask.
Ask Carl to send a "call tag" for the heads and do the job over, correctly.
You won't be able to re-use the head gaskets, so since they told you the heads would be ready to install, I would expect that they would supply you with a new set of head gaskets....to "make things right."
Seems pretty simple, to me.
Everyone that agrees, please add a "+1" to this thread. That should give everyone involved an indication of how our community feels about things like this.
For $810.00 plus your parts, the heads should have been surfaced, had the guides replaced and machined to size, had the valves and seats ground, be squeaky clean, had the valve springs individually checked and set-up to the correct installed height, with new oil galley plugs. They should have come in a sealed bag and you should be able to lick them...anywhere and everywhere.
Everyone makes mistakes. The true "test" of a quality business/person is how they handle the mistakes they make. Although Carl doesn't seem to have a great "track record" of making things "right" (witness the upper control arm thread).....you never know, until you ask.
Ask Carl to send a "call tag" for the heads and do the job over, correctly.
You won't be able to re-use the head gaskets, so since they told you the heads would be ready to install, I would expect that they would supply you with a new set of head gaskets....to "make things right."
Seems pretty simple, to me.
Everyone that agrees, please add a "+1" to this thread. That should give everyone involved an indication of how our community feels about things like this.
08-17-2011, 09:05 AM
#70
Nordschleife Master
+1 should be ready to bolt on. I have only a couple machine shops I take my work to and they are always returned in a state to bolt on. Or I would NEVER use them again.
08-17-2011, 09:31 AM
#71
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+1
08-17-2011, 10:28 AM
#72
Developer
No Luann, I did NOT say they were clean and ready to install right out of the box.
I did say that the valve guides were pre-lubed and ready for use, of course (as we add assembly lube during the assembly).
I'm sorry if you took that to mean the heads were "ready to be installed".
Experienced mechanics always know to look for dirt and debris immediatley before installation of the parts, as some is likely to be picked up just from shipping alone, if nothing else.
Luann, you asked me to do a "basic valve job = nothing special". You even provided your own parts to avoid buying them from us. Whatever. When a customer wants to save money by doing more of the work themselves, we respect that. Cleaning is one of those things that customers can do, so I was not surprised when this request came in.
But dont ask for the budget valve job and then complain that the heads did not come back pristine and ready to install. Bad form.
We did precisely what you asked, and no more.
Sorry boys - I do not like arguing with a customer, but I like selective memory even less.
So, I go back to what I said earlier... 1) if you make the decision to "be the mechanic" than take the time to learn what that fully entails and what you should be preparred to do. Many of you do an excellent job of that on this forum. 2) if you have work done on your car, fully specify what it is you expect or desire. I wouldnt go get a basic car wash and then complain "hey! you didn't vacuum the interior!" Have the conversation with your supplier/mechanic/whoever to spell out the tasks to avoid a mis-understanding in the future.
I will be traveling from now until Sunday and unable to comment further. Not sure I have anything else to say about this anyway.
I did say that the valve guides were pre-lubed and ready for use, of course (as we add assembly lube during the assembly).
I'm sorry if you took that to mean the heads were "ready to be installed".
Experienced mechanics always know to look for dirt and debris immediatley before installation of the parts, as some is likely to be picked up just from shipping alone, if nothing else.
Luann, you asked me to do a "basic valve job = nothing special". You even provided your own parts to avoid buying them from us. Whatever. When a customer wants to save money by doing more of the work themselves, we respect that. Cleaning is one of those things that customers can do, so I was not surprised when this request came in.
But dont ask for the budget valve job and then complain that the heads did not come back pristine and ready to install. Bad form.
We did precisely what you asked, and no more.
Sorry boys - I do not like arguing with a customer, but I like selective memory even less.
So, I go back to what I said earlier... 1) if you make the decision to "be the mechanic" than take the time to learn what that fully entails and what you should be preparred to do. Many of you do an excellent job of that on this forum. 2) if you have work done on your car, fully specify what it is you expect or desire. I wouldnt go get a basic car wash and then complain "hey! you didn't vacuum the interior!" Have the conversation with your supplier/mechanic/whoever to spell out the tasks to avoid a mis-understanding in the future.
I will be traveling from now until Sunday and unable to comment further. Not sure I have anything else to say about this anyway.
08-17-2011, 10:33 AM
#73
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......and on that note, I feel we have taken this thread as far as it can reasonably go.
