macfly4

man, these cars just always keep you laughing (or crying, more like it). Last weekend, through the amazing help of fellow rennlisters, the timing belt tension was fixed so that my light stopped coming on all the time (did come on once today but only once).

Then today, after a 2 and a half hour drive up to dover,DE i come out of the store to start her up and.....nothing. turned over fine but wouldnt catch. actually, caught for a few seconds then died when my foot came off the gas. uh oh. last time it happened the car was low on gas so i figured this was the same issue and the gauge was just off.

So i trekked down the way and bought a gas can and came back with the gas and some fuel injector/line cleaner just to be on the safe side. After i poured it in the car started right up. Great! problem solved....or not. I then drove to the auto store to pick up some techron fuel injector/line cleaner as suggested by Glen here and when i came out of the store.....no start. damn, this is getting annoying. many attempts at starting and it just wouldn't catch. After letting it sit for awhile and going and getting more gas (figured maybe i was just really low and needed a lot in there) somehow it magically started again. Great! So I went to the gas station to fill it up and then planned to just cruise home without stopping so that I could examine this without needing to call a tow truck. At the gas station, after the fill up....you guessed it, the car wouldn't start.

This is getting ridiculous. A mechanic that happened to be there told me it was probably the fuel pump dying. Interestingly, he asked if I often ran the car with less than a quarter tank full. I had been letting it just go down near empty and then filling the whole thing all at once. He said that he had seen a bunch of fuel pumps die like this because the in the tank pumps actually get cooled by the gas and if you run it with less than a quarter tank or so the pump tends to overheat and they go bad quickly.


I have no idea if that is true or not but at this point I am just afraid of trying to start this car up. Sounds like I probably need to replace the fuel pump. I thought I remembered getting a whining sound of the pump on turning the key to the on position nothing will happen with just the key on. but when i was trying to start it i wasn't hearing anything. even when it did manage to start i dont remember that whine kicking in.
strange.

SeanR

That was hard as hell to read.

Let me help ya.

Have you changed out the relays?

macfly4

sorry about that. was just writing as it came. will go back and edit it. No, havent touched it. im pretty much a car mechanical newb so was reading all the fuel pump threads and plan to check it out in the morning.

SeanR

I'd go back with a jumper wire and jump the fuel pump relay at the far left, far right pins (30 87) and see if the pump runs, and the car starts. If so, change the relay.

Can you say if the fuel pump was running louder than usual when you got stranded?

StratfordShark

The whining sound on ignition on was the ABS hydraulics charging at rear left, so that's not a diagnisis of fuel pump behaviour!

The pump wont overheat so long as there is gas in tank. It would be fine running with less than 1/4 full.

+1 on post to check relays. Most likely failure fuel pump relay, then LH, then EZK but methodically replace each and test (maybe at home once you have a no start) with standard 53 relay. If you dont have spare substitute the horn relay.

James Bailey

Given the relative low cost of the common #53 relays You might just want to change all three that can make your car not run......while the fuel pump relay tends to fail most often as it switches a much higher draw circuit all three are quite capable of becoming weak and unreliable. Ignition, LH brain and fuel pump the Relay, Relay, Relay I have so often posted. A relay is just an electromagnetic switch using a coil of enamel insulated very fine copper wire which when energized the magnetic pull causes a point to move and complete a circuit..... If the insulation on the wire starts to break down due to heat or age the coil becomes less magnetic and fails to pull the point , when hot they are less efficient have less pull, if the battery voltage is a bit low they have less pull.....all of which can make them unpredictable.

WallyP

"The whining sound on ignition on was the ABS hydraulics charging at rear left, so that's not a diagnisis of fuel pump behaviour!"

The ABS doesn't whine when the ignition comes on, and the ABS is in the left front corner of the car. The '91 might have a whine in the left rear as the non-slip differential pump charges the system, but the '87 doesn't have that.

On the later cars, the pump runs only when the engine is turning over, so no whine when you turn the ignition on.

While relays are certainly a very likely cause for the problem, a leaking diaphragm in a fuel pressure regulator or damper can also cause a hot-start problem. Less likely, but quick and easy to check. Pull the small vacuum line from each of the units and check for any traces of fuel in the line. Any trace of fuel calls for replacement of the leaking unit. You can also try putting your foot on the floor and cranking until it fires - don't overheat the starter.

Landseer

Just don't get frustrated with it! Beautiful vehicle. Just needs a little TLC due to lack of use.

We've seen here in Richmond intermittent running / stall / restart problems from a dozen different sources, all minor issues but frustrating to face.

Maleficio

Carry a can of starting fluid with you at all times. Spray into the intake (remove the air filter lid and filter), and see what happens (after the no-start). If it ignites and idles until the fluid is consumed, you've got a fuel control/delivery problem. If it won't light off with starting fluid, you've got an ignition problem.

Tom in Austin

Jim Bailey, Wally and Sean ... now that's a lot of expertise on one question!

Get a set of relay pliers and change all those 53bs, one of the fastest, easiest and best preventative measures you can take for a 928's electronics.

SeanR

This is NOT a good idea with cars that have a hot wire MAF. Great way to start a fire.

cpayne

Grounds or ground strap, but probably what the other guys are saying relays or pump. Swap out the MAF with a know good one.

Randy V

Not this.

blown 87

That is very bad advice, never, ever, use either on a gas engine, and I wont use it on a diesel either.

Use brake cleaner instead, they will run off the propane propellent , either, can and will break things like ring lands.

Word to the wise, use at your motors risk.

StratfordShark

Doh I did mean to say PSD, but did forget 87 cars dont have it!

Thanks for correction Wally.

So original poster may have been mistaken about whine at left rear?