Lizard928

the throttle body is pretty well centered in the plenum. However there is as you can see very little space for the TB there. So little that I made a custom cross brace. Again though, this is not my personal car. This is a local gents car (Walt928 on RL).

A stock 32V (85/86) TB will not be a standard bolt up no. It has a bigger diameter. You may need a 84-86 euro center housing to be able to use it.

I should also note that welding the intake manifold is not all that easy even with lots of cleaning. It is cast aluminium and you need to keep lots of heat in it, which causes any oil soaked in it throughout the years to bubble to the surface and contaminate the weld.

I also keep saying this on this board. But I will say it again.
Forget about sequential EFI. It adds a MASSIVE amount of complexity. Gives a very very slight increase in drivability and efficiency. And is EXTREMELY complex to set it up correctly. You have to do a ton of testing (on the dyno with gas analyzer), and math to figure out as to exactly what time to fire the injectors to see the benefit. Stick with MSII V3.0 and run 2 bank batch. Then according to the firing order, wire up every second cylinder to the primary injector bank, and all others to the second injection bank. Then in the settings run it with alternating banks.

If you truly feel that you absolutely need sequential EFI/Spark then go with VEMS. It costs a little more money. It can be a little more difficult to set up, but it has dual EGT, dual Knock, much more triggers, etc. It also has a built in wideband controller. So you simply need the WB O2 sensor and no controller.
It does have an LCD and PS2 connection for being able to tune without even having a computer (though to set it up for the initial tune a computer is required!). But I cannot comment on the LCD and PS2 testing as I have not tried to use those.

If you are doing the setup on a 16V car, you need to note that in order to run sequential, you MUST add a camshaft trigger of which it does not have one from the factory. So you are then having to do some fancy fabrication (though not impossible) to get that setup to work.
As well, with VEMS, and MSIII for sequential. You also need to realise that you will be working with around 3x the amount of wires! Meaning it will take you far longer to complete the install. I can remove the factory harness, and install a MSII V3.0 harness with soldering/heatshrinking joints in 1-1.5 days depending on the install. This goes up to over 3 days for VEMS.......

Ducman82

Thanks for that info, good to know. Made me think. On the ms2. Will the crank sensor and stoking flywheel/teeth work?

Lizard928

1978 to 1984 928 models for the US market do not have any teeth, or a pickup hole at the back of the engine block.

If you wish to use EDIS-8 then you need a 36-1 pickup ring to be used with a VR sensor. I mated the ring to the front crank pulleys and then indexed it to the sensor (very easy to do)
You could also do this same method and sensor for a pickup if you went with CNP or COP technology.

I would not recommend retaining the stock distributor cap.

BigAl1

Thanks for the comments Colin, I will reconsider the MS3X plan.

Lizard928

With the amount of people interested in MS and other standalone systems, I am thinking that maybe I should start putting together a kit for the wiring harness, or a ready made harness. The only trouble is if you use EDIS-8 the placement of the coils can be tricky. Especially if you use a SC system.

Mongo

Is MS really that good of an EFI? I have been hearing more about TecGT and Haltech EFIs in various other car make forums than I have of MS. How user friendly is MegaSquirt over other frontrunners out there?

To me, there is so much stuff to get for this kit on their website that it's a turnoff to me. Carl's TecGT kit seems like the easiest way to throw EFI on a 928. The only downside is that it's not sequential.

dprantl

What about knock detection/control? Converting an S4+, which management system has the ability to interface with the stock knock sensors and can it do what EZK does?

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft

Ducman82

the blocks i have do have the crank sensor hole, and i have a fly wheel with teeth. that will work with MSII right?

123quattro

Knock detection on any stand-alone system is fairly sketchy. It may work, but it won't work well. Knock sensors are tuned to a specific block, valve train, and are windowed to only look when knock can occur. With a good tune it's generally not an issue and not necessary.

Tom. M

I'm still waiting for Colin to get the COP for MSII ... because yes..the EDIS 8 coil pack is difficult to place (neatly) in the engine bay.

Mongo

TecGT does. Carl's Electromotive kit can interface with the stock knock sensors and has a harness kit that can read both sensors rather than just one.


Right now, I think any LH EFI stuff I intend to do would be with a Sharktuner.

Lizard928

MS is actually a great standalone system for what it does.

You can add knock sensors to the MSII v3.0 but you need to use a knocklite.
It is not that hard to do. But at the same time. If you hook a stethoscope into your vacuum lines you can clearly hear it. Plus you will also find that your oil ejection goes us before you actually hit detonation.

VEMS has dual knock sensor control built in. It really depends on the features you want.
I personally prefer to build a tune that is slightly conservative and not require knock sensors. But for those looking for those extra few ponies, then yes knock sensors may be a good idea.

Ducman,
if you have the sensor hole, and a flywheel with the teeth. Then you can use that. Make sure that the sensor does NOT touch the teeth. As well, you will need to add a 1/4W 1k ohm resistor to the + line of the factory sensor (do this in the harness side), or the voltages are too high and the MS turns it off to protect itself. However you cannot use EDIS-8 with that toothed ring.

BC

Just use MSIII +MS3X

And then ask the user to either get the Cayenne COPs or use the LS2 coils like Todd did.

Problem solved.

Lizard928

BC,
You can run COP or CNP with MSII. I would not bother going with MSIII myself. If you want the extra features go with VEMS or something else.

Also a number of the people that are on here are 16V men, and the Cayenne COP units are not recommended for them.
Also, while I now know how to put Cayenne COP in the car, and have them work right without an issue. I would not recommend the Cayenne COP units to others. They are finiky to get running 100%!!!! The signal must be very precise, too weak a signal no run, to strong you risk killing the coil.

BC

You and I have talked about this for years. VEMS simply is some dark hole of no-info eurotrash for everyone except those that have an experienced distributor near them - like you. :P
MSIII can have tons of extra features with their CAN network process and the JBperf boards.

INdeed. The LS2 coils would work very well ontop of the cam box with a short coil wire to the stock plug on the head.

Well, I know you got them to work, and i bought them years ago in preparation, so I will run them no matter what. I think with the signal coming from the MS3X it should be even cleaner, and indeed you should probably shield in some manner.
Did you use the Porsche sources plugs and loom? The testing that louie did showed that they are very robust units as I recall.