83 Euro S 5-speed. Rough, what's it worth?
04-24-2011, 12:49 AM
#61
Racer
Thread Starter
I agree, but I was going to start at 2200.
I don't know if I like that ansa muffler or if I hate it. In the vid it drones like hell, but in the car it sounds OK.
The car does have a cat on it, it's like twin cats squeezed side by side, but it also has the twin pipes all the way to the muffler, which is about the size of a football. I can hear a slight exhaust leak coming out of the Stevie Wonder welds that attaches the back of the cat/s to the pipes. I'll have to search around to see if I can find another like it. I know this isn't stock. Must have been installed when it was bastardized to US specs. Just like the lovely front and rear side marker lights.
I don't know if I like that ansa muffler or if I hate it. In the vid it drones like hell, but in the car it sounds OK.
The car does have a cat on it, it's like twin cats squeezed side by side, but it also has the twin pipes all the way to the muffler, which is about the size of a football. I can hear a slight exhaust leak coming out of the Stevie Wonder welds that attaches the back of the cat/s to the pipes. I'll have to search around to see if I can find another like it. I know this isn't stock. Must have been installed when it was bastardized to US specs. Just like the lovely front and rear side marker lights.
04-24-2011, 12:49 AM
#62
Nice to see that it's pretty standard for the added turn signals in front of the front wheels to be done as shoddily as possible!
Mine are the same way. It doesn't look too bad at all. I'd offer $3000, but I'm a bufoon that has an affinity for cheap cars that need work - I couldn't care less about others opinions of my rides not being pristine in every way (at least I'm not driving a new Honda or any other ****box for that matter). Car is in a bit worse shape than mine interior wise, but having a 5 speed bumps up what I'd pay for it. Good luck with whatever you decide. Hell, try offering $2800...all he can say is no. Then move up from there.
By the way, do they require smog in Michigan?
Mine are the same way. It doesn't look too bad at all. I'd offer $3000, but I'm a bufoon that has an affinity for cheap cars that need work - I couldn't care less about others opinions of my rides not being pristine in every way (at least I'm not driving a new Honda or any other ****box for that matter). Car is in a bit worse shape than mine interior wise, but having a 5 speed bumps up what I'd pay for it. Good luck with whatever you decide. Hell, try offering $2800...all he can say is no. Then move up from there.By the way, do they require smog in Michigan?
04-24-2011, 01:45 AM
#63
Racer
Thread Starter
Smog? Hell no... All you need is to have a registration and some form of no-fault insurance and you're legal...
A 2x8 wood bumper is mandatory, but a 2x10 is preferred.
3 wheels minimum, but 4 are preferred.
Rust holes large enough to fall through are OK. Makes the car lighter anyway.
Seats are optional, as is a steering wheel. Buckets and Vice Grips are cool.
Must have 2 tailights/brakelights but 12 is better. Think big rig.
As long as you have a plate somewhere on, in, or near the car, it's fine. License plate above your sun visor, that's fine as long as you can present it to an officer. Not that he has the ability to read, but as long as it's presented it's legal.
Welcome to Michigan, (made in china)
A 2x8 wood bumper is mandatory, but a 2x10 is preferred.
3 wheels minimum, but 4 are preferred.
Rust holes large enough to fall through are OK. Makes the car lighter anyway.
Seats are optional, as is a steering wheel. Buckets and Vice Grips are cool.
Must have 2 tailights/brakelights but 12 is better. Think big rig.
As long as you have a plate somewhere on, in, or near the car, it's fine. License plate above your sun visor, that's fine as long as you can present it to an officer. Not that he has the ability to read, but as long as it's presented it's legal.
Welcome to Michigan, (made in china)
04-24-2011, 08:59 AM
#64
Rennlist Member
Based on your impressions of its driveability: shifting, power and suspension tightness.. I'm thinking for a true early EuroS that your very good at 3K and still have some room.
I've brought home cars for less, but none were driveable like this one.
I also think you need to remember they are GT cruisers made for lingering shifts and not gear-slamming goats. If you break it, your (nor my) budget won't be enought allow it to run again.
These engines seem to have been balanced and toleranced with more precision than detroit cars of the era, and have better materials and QC. But they have weaknesses, too. Enjoy this for the strong crusing and windy hill pulls, slam stoplights in something else.
I've brought home cars for less, but none were driveable like this one.
I also think you need to remember they are GT cruisers made for lingering shifts and not gear-slamming goats. If you break it, your (nor my) budget won't be enought allow it to run again.
These engines seem to have been balanced and toleranced with more precision than detroit cars of the era, and have better materials and QC. But they have weaknesses, too. Enjoy this for the strong crusing and windy hill pulls, slam stoplights in something else.
Last edited by Landseer; 04-24-2011 at 09:33 AM.
04-24-2011, 10:13 AM
#65
Rennlist Member
I had to take a little time to think about this car...
Based on a 3-point scale (body, mechanical, interior), it's a 1 because it runs and drives. And this a big deal in this price range, because many do not.
Honorable mention goes for the interior being all there, and the body has no major damage.
This may be the best combination for you. It's gives you the right baseline for a rolling restoration.
You can get some seat time which will allow time to assess the 928, see if you like it for the long-term,
Also will give you time to assess the car itself, and develop a restoration plan.
- This can be done in you short timeframe.
- 83 Euro 5 speed is a good baseline.
- Price is right for you
OTOH, save up a few extra bucks and a little more time, you will have a better starting point. Case in point:
79 5 speed, no rubstrip, no sunroof, $4400
86.5 5 speed, no rubstrip, $6500
Ultimately, you will put more money into this car than the two listed above. But that is what makes it fun!
You have my vote, but nowhere north of $3K.
Good luck with your decision.
Based on a 3-point scale (body, mechanical, interior), it's a 1 because it runs and drives. And this a big deal in this price range, because many do not.
Honorable mention goes for the interior being all there, and the body has no major damage.
This may be the best combination for you. It's gives you the right baseline for a rolling restoration.
You can get some seat time which will allow time to assess the 928, see if you like it for the long-term,
Also will give you time to assess the car itself, and develop a restoration plan.
- This can be done in you short timeframe.
- 83 Euro 5 speed is a good baseline.
- Price is right for you
OTOH, save up a few extra bucks and a little more time, you will have a better starting point. Case in point:
79 5 speed, no rubstrip, no sunroof, $4400
86.5 5 speed, no rubstrip, $6500
Ultimately, you will put more money into this car than the two listed above. But that is what makes it fun!
You have my vote, but nowhere north of $3K.
Good luck with your decision.
04-24-2011, 01:21 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
Trip,
You are a true 928 enthusiast, you've been bitten by the 928 bug. Your experience on your first 928 test drive is like many of us. The problem with a 928 is that even a poor running 928 with shot suspension can still give a killer test drive. What does that mean? Nothing really. A lot of folks on this list don't want to see you spending a lot of money getting your car to 100% unless you're prepared for it. On the other hand, pay what can you afford to lose, and if it dies tomorrow you can part it and recoup some of it back. If it doesn't, then you're on the long road to 928 ownership, where the car will take as much money as you are willing to put into it for repairs, neglected maintenance, and then upgrades. It really never ends, it just depends where on the scale you want to begin and end. Sounds like you had a good test drive and you're committed to starting a 928 "relationship". Offer what you can afford to lose, and drive yourself home a Euro and get to wrenching!.
You are a true 928 enthusiast, you've been bitten by the 928 bug. Your experience on your first 928 test drive is like many of us. The problem with a 928 is that even a poor running 928 with shot suspension can still give a killer test drive. What does that mean? Nothing really. A lot of folks on this list don't want to see you spending a lot of money getting your car to 100% unless you're prepared for it. On the other hand, pay what can you afford to lose, and if it dies tomorrow you can part it and recoup some of it back. If it doesn't, then you're on the long road to 928 ownership, where the car will take as much money as you are willing to put into it for repairs, neglected maintenance, and then upgrades. It really never ends, it just depends where on the scale you want to begin and end. Sounds like you had a good test drive and you're committed to starting a 928 "relationship". Offer what you can afford to lose, and drive yourself home a Euro and get to wrenching!.
04-24-2011, 02:35 PM
#68
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the fiberboard rear 1/4 can be fixed with Glass resin and cloth same with door panels . The warpage is from sun damage and shrinkage of the leather. If the guy drove it to Vegas and back last summer he must have had faith in it! Manual 944 seats which are lighter bolt right in and being less padded gives more room. Cracked paint comes from a poor repaint (often laquer) and the cracks devolop over time but go into the original paint and needs a full strip before repainting, lots of labor. All in all if you get it for $ 3,000 or less that is a lot of 928 for the money.
04-24-2011, 04:37 PM
#70
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the positive responses!
I had every intention to bring this car home yesterday, but I had to go home and think about it. Like I said, it was everything I could do to keep myself from handing him that wad of cash that was burning my leg...
Question, Is the 4.7 M28/11 an interference motor or not? I have read both. I ask because the seller hasn't changed the tb or wp since he bought it, back in 92. So if this is an interference motor, I may be doing a tb swap in his driveway LOL
The seller knows nothing about his car. Even though I'm a noob I know considerably more about the 928 than he does. Or he's playing dumb... There are some things that are bugging me though. The front seats are both flat from having a wide butt smashed into them, but the seller and his wife are both incredibly skinny. (He looks like Frank Oz, lol) How could narrow butts flatten the seats out like school bus seats? I don't care about the flat seats, but I question the length of his ownership. When I commented on the horrible seat repair, he said "Yeah, someone did a lousy job" That just sounds strange. He doesn't know if the headlight squirters work, or how to make them work. He didn't know how to turn the fog lights on, or what the headlight adjustment **** did. If you've owned a car for 20 years, wouldn't you know who reupholstered your seats and how to turn on the fog lights? It's just sending up warning flags. He made the comment, "The oil Cooler has it's own fan" while he pointed at the A/C condenser, I just nodded. I wonder if he's clueless, or just acting like it?
The car has been for sale since Nov, why hasn't anyone bought it? I'm wondering if I'm missing something. Maybe I'm getting cold feet, I guess this is better than buyers remorse.
I dunno, I think I'll wait a week and see if he still has it, if he does, then I'll jump on it. My old man taught me a long time ago, "If you think it's the deal of the century, wait a week and see how you feel."
I've idolized these cars for the past 20-25 years and I'm anxious to get one, but I know I need to slow down and relax a bit. Damn Kids, right...
Mr. Bailey, thanks for the 944 seat idea, I'll look into them.
I had every intention to bring this car home yesterday, but I had to go home and think about it. Like I said, it was everything I could do to keep myself from handing him that wad of cash that was burning my leg...
Question, Is the 4.7 M28/11 an interference motor or not? I have read both. I ask because the seller hasn't changed the tb or wp since he bought it, back in 92. So if this is an interference motor, I may be doing a tb swap in his driveway LOL
The seller knows nothing about his car. Even though I'm a noob I know considerably more about the 928 than he does. Or he's playing dumb... There are some things that are bugging me though. The front seats are both flat from having a wide butt smashed into them, but the seller and his wife are both incredibly skinny. (He looks like Frank Oz, lol) How could narrow butts flatten the seats out like school bus seats? I don't care about the flat seats, but I question the length of his ownership. When I commented on the horrible seat repair, he said "Yeah, someone did a lousy job" That just sounds strange. He doesn't know if the headlight squirters work, or how to make them work. He didn't know how to turn the fog lights on, or what the headlight adjustment **** did. If you've owned a car for 20 years, wouldn't you know who reupholstered your seats and how to turn on the fog lights? It's just sending up warning flags. He made the comment, "The oil Cooler has it's own fan" while he pointed at the A/C condenser, I just nodded. I wonder if he's clueless, or just acting like it?
The car has been for sale since Nov, why hasn't anyone bought it? I'm wondering if I'm missing something. Maybe I'm getting cold feet, I guess this is better than buyers remorse.
I dunno, I think I'll wait a week and see if he still has it, if he does, then I'll jump on it. My old man taught me a long time ago, "If you think it's the deal of the century, wait a week and see how you feel."
I've idolized these cars for the past 20-25 years and I'm anxious to get one, but I know I need to slow down and relax a bit. Damn Kids, right...
Mr. Bailey, thanks for the 944 seat idea, I'll look into them.
04-24-2011, 05:14 PM
#71
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I often have posted that an old project 928 is $10,000 away from being a $5,000 car. That still applies to your find BUT only if you try to fully restore it. The expense to make it nice can be mind boggling. You can however have a lot of fun with a less than nice 928
04-24-2011, 05:21 PM
#72
Racer
Thread Starter
I don't think I'm going to try to restore a 928, the prices are just too high for the return. As long as it runs well and looks OK, It should be good enough. I can't have box staples pinching the butt cheeks either. I'm looking into the 944 seats.
Happy Easter to everyone!
Happy Easter to everyone!
04-25-2011, 12:30 AM
#75
Been selling Twinkies on Ebay,
have some extra cash right now.
Rennlist Member
have some extra cash right now.
Rennlist Member
Thanks for all the positive responses!
I had every intention to bring this car home yesterday, but I had to go home and think about it. Like I said, it was everything I could do to keep myself from handing him that wad of cash that was burning my leg...
Question, Is the 4.7 M28/11 an interference motor or not? I have read both. I ask because the seller hasn't changed the tb or wp since he bought it, back in 92. So if this is an interference motor, I may be doing a tb swap in his driveway LOL
The seller knows nothing about his car. Even though I'm a noob I know considerably more about the 928 than he does. Or he's playing dumb... There are some things that are bugging me though. The front seats are both flat from having a wide butt smashed into them, but the seller and his wife are both incredibly skinny. (He looks like Frank Oz, lol) How could narrow butts flatten the seats out like school bus seats? I don't care about the flat seats, but I question the length of his ownership. When I commented on the horrible seat repair, he said "Yeah, someone did a lousy job" That just sounds strange. He doesn't know if the headlight squirters work, or how to make them work. He didn't know how to turn the fog lights on, or what the headlight adjustment **** did. If you've owned a car for 20 years, wouldn't you know who reupholstered your seats and how to turn on the fog lights? It's just sending up warning flags. He made the comment, "The oil Cooler has it's own fan" while he pointed at the A/C condenser, I just nodded. I wonder if he's clueless, or just acting like it?
The car has been for sale since Nov, why hasn't anyone bought it? I'm wondering if I'm missing something. Maybe I'm getting cold feet, I guess this is better than buyers remorse.
I dunno, I think I'll wait a week and see if he still has it, if he does, then I'll jump on it. My old man taught me a long time ago, "If you think it's the deal of the century, wait a week and see how you feel."
I've idolized these cars for the past 20-25 years and I'm anxious to get one, but I know I need to slow down and relax a bit. Damn Kids, right...
Mr. Bailey, thanks for the 944 seat idea, I'll look into them.
I had every intention to bring this car home yesterday, but I had to go home and think about it. Like I said, it was everything I could do to keep myself from handing him that wad of cash that was burning my leg...
Question, Is the 4.7 M28/11 an interference motor or not? I have read both. I ask because the seller hasn't changed the tb or wp since he bought it, back in 92. So if this is an interference motor, I may be doing a tb swap in his driveway LOL
The seller knows nothing about his car. Even though I'm a noob I know considerably more about the 928 than he does. Or he's playing dumb... There are some things that are bugging me though. The front seats are both flat from having a wide butt smashed into them, but the seller and his wife are both incredibly skinny. (He looks like Frank Oz, lol) How could narrow butts flatten the seats out like school bus seats? I don't care about the flat seats, but I question the length of his ownership. When I commented on the horrible seat repair, he said "Yeah, someone did a lousy job" That just sounds strange. He doesn't know if the headlight squirters work, or how to make them work. He didn't know how to turn the fog lights on, or what the headlight adjustment **** did. If you've owned a car for 20 years, wouldn't you know who reupholstered your seats and how to turn on the fog lights? It's just sending up warning flags. He made the comment, "The oil Cooler has it's own fan" while he pointed at the A/C condenser, I just nodded. I wonder if he's clueless, or just acting like it?
The car has been for sale since Nov, why hasn't anyone bought it? I'm wondering if I'm missing something. Maybe I'm getting cold feet, I guess this is better than buyers remorse.
I dunno, I think I'll wait a week and see if he still has it, if he does, then I'll jump on it. My old man taught me a long time ago, "If you think it's the deal of the century, wait a week and see how you feel."
I've idolized these cars for the past 20-25 years and I'm anxious to get one, but I know I need to slow down and relax a bit. Damn Kids, right...
Mr. Bailey, thanks for the 944 seat idea, I'll look into them.
If the guy can't tell the A/C cooler from an integral oil cooler, at least he's close when he points to the condenser. At least he knows it has an oil cooler... not everyone who has a 928 is a mechanic.
And about the headlight squirters... seriously dude don't get overly ****! I would bet that almost no one here has working headlight squirters. I personally have never even tried mine...
The car is what it is. I wouldn't expect someone selling a $3K car to know everything about it.
That '86 in CA might have a more knowledgeable owner. Might be better sorted, too. But it's twice the price and far, far away... BUT, this is the perfect time of year for a road trip! I think you could find a 928 rennlister that would be willing to put you up every stop along the way.