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New noise coming from near left cam gear distributor [SOLVED!]

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Old 04-19-2011 | 06:59 PM
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Thanks for the offer, Don.
Fraggle offered to sell me his, since he's now a Porkenshioner guy
Old 04-27-2011 | 05:42 PM
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Default Covers off:

So I pulled both covers off (pics below). My gut tells me that the belt is too far forward on both cam gears. The driver's side is a few more mm forward than the pass. side. That's coolant on the belt - not a scrape, BTW.
Even if the belt is tracking at an acceptable degree (what do you guys think?), I won't be able to figure out what's causing the noise w/out removing the middle/lower cover, so that has to come off.
Initially I thought that the water pump pulley had migrated forward, but the belt is at the front of the pulley as opposed the back (see pic). This tells me that it anything, the pump pulley is keeping the belt from travelling farther forward.
So what can this be? Any speculation before I get the center cover off?
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Old 04-27-2011 | 06:01 PM
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Tensioner arm bushes badly worn ?
Old 04-27-2011 | 06:36 PM
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Could be something like that. This didn't come about immediately after the t/b job, it's developed over time, so I doubt I installed something wrong (washer/spacer missing or in the wrong place, etc)
I used Kelley's timing belt replacement manual and found it very helpful as a step-by-step to get the job done, so I'm using that as a guide here.
Since I'm not going to be replacing my timing belt, I assume that the harness that runs along the front of the engine ('91 GT) doesn't have to be removed.
Is there anything else that would normally have to be removed for a t/b replacement that can stay put but allow me to get that center/lower cover off? I'd prefer not to have to remove things that don't need to be removed.
Old 04-27-2011 | 06:44 PM
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Dwayne's step by step write up might give you some clues...
Old 04-27-2011 | 07:11 PM
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Thanks. I'll try that. Is it in print or online somewhere?
Old 04-27-2011 | 07:16 PM
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Just Google on dwaynesgarage...
Old 04-30-2011 | 05:31 PM
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Got in a little deeper. Unfortunately I forgot to get a flywheel lock so I can't get the pulleys off. Obviously I can't confirm pulley/bearing function without removing the t/b tension, but I'm wondering if anything jumps out at you guys before I put an order in. I checked the tension, and it's within specs.
A few things I'm noticing here:

The previous timing belt was 6 years old with about 30k on it. It was a Porsche branded belt and all print & part numbers could clearly be read when it was pulled for replacement....unlike the smooth side of this belt, which I believe is a Conti (see pic). If this is a different method of printing on the belt, that would explain the rubbed off print...
...but
if the degree of rub on this belt & print doesn't look right, I suppose a pulley is dragging more than it should. Does the dark seat - in contrast to the bright finish on the water pump pulley look normal? It looks like belt deposit to me.
I know that it takes more intertia to turn the waterpump pulley compared to the tensioner pulley, but should there be belt deposits on any of the pulleys?
Does the belt alignment on the tensioner pulley look right? It seems somewhat forward to me. The bearing bolt/shaft is tight, but if it were bent a bit, that would explain the belt running forward. This wouldn't be related to a pump starting to fail...or would it?
Does the belt look too close to the tensioner arm?
John, would worn tensioner bushings cause the tensioner pulley to lean inward under belt tension?
The input that I've gotten from you guys has helped me to look for certain things here. Any additional feedback from those of you who are familiar with how these components should look is greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-01-2011 | 04:15 PM
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I see two things:

1) The roller carrier has move blockward on the pivot bolt. The gap shown in your picture between the pivot brace and the plastic bushing of the carrier arm should not be there. The first thing that comes to mind is that the other plastic bushing on the inner-side of the carrier is missing.

2) It could be a parallax error, but the water pump pulley looks like it has migrated towards the block by ~3mm or so. If you look straight down directly at the block-side lip of the pulley there should be about 2mm of metal showing between the pulley edge and the weep hole in the pump casting. If the pulley is beginning to eclipse the weep hole then you have a failed pump and if it has a metal impeller you have steel and aluminum dust in your coolant.

And no, I cannot explain how these two observations singly or together lead to the belt tracking forward. There may yet be a third issue. Or, if it is missing, the rear bushing could be why the belt is moving forward even though the pump is trying to eat your block.
Old 05-01-2011 | 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by worf928
The roller carrier has move blockward on the pivot bolt. The gap shown in your picture between the pivot brace and the plastic bushing of the carrier arm should not be there. The first thing that comes to mind is that the other plastic bushing on the inner-side of the carrier is missing.
Thanks for weighing in, Dave.
I'm totally green when it comes to these components. I could have looked at this tensioner assembly for an hour & not seen any abnormalities.
Both bushings were replaced 3k miles ago, but if it doesn't look right to you, I'm going to have two new ones on hand. IMO, a missing/broken/worn bushing combined with belt tension would put an inward tilt on the roller that would adversely affect the belt tracking. I still don't understand the print rubbing off on the smooth side of the belt....
Re: the pump, it's a rebuilt unit with a plastic impeller. No operating temp. abnormalities before the car was parked.
After I get the pulleys off & get the belt off, I'm going to focus on this tensioner assembly. I'll post an update.
Again, thanks Dave & everyone else who has taken the time to offer their suggestions on this. I value the experienced observations. It's a huge help.
Old 05-01-2011 | 11:53 PM
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We wait for updates with baited breath.

Let me know if you need anything, I'll be headed to philly on Sat but open on Sunday.
Old 05-02-2011 | 01:11 AM
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those marks on the belt indicate a seizing WP bearing.
replace the belt,
the WP,
and the bushings on the tensioner arm.
I suggest to use a new Laso from Roger.
Old 05-02-2011 | 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by worf928
I see two things:

1) The roller carrier has move blockward on the pivot bolt. The gap shown in your picture between the pivot brace and the plastic bushing of the carrier arm should not be there. The first thing that comes to mind is that the other plastic bushing on the inner-side of the carrier is missing.
Could it be that the circlip on the tensioner roller shaft is missing?

Also, it's no surprise, but I agree with Stan.
Old 05-02-2011 | 02:33 AM
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another possibility the marks also would line up with the tensioner roller see the small area not touched thats an imprint of the roller not the WP I would also suggest to replace the tensioner roller
Old 05-03-2011 | 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Ball
Could it be that the circlip on the tensioner roller shaft is missing?
(IIRC, I don't have a carrier arm handy...) The idler roller is just pressed-on to the carrier arm and the rear-facing bushing pretty-much bottoms out on the pivot bolt. If the circlip on the tensioner roller was missing then the main roller would migrate but the idler would stay in alignment (Been there, seen that.)

EDIT: The above is incorrect. The idler has the circlip not the main roller. That's what happens when you post late at night ...

It is also possible that the actual outer "roller" part of the idler has migrated on the idler bearing 'cause that outer part is not located on the bearing except by press fit. So, the misalignment of the idler may have been caused by improper replacement technique during the last belt job. But, since the carrier arm is too far back towards the block (the gap between the edge of the arm and the brace) my bet is that the lip of the rear bushing is gone and allowed the arm to migrate. The gap seems just about the same as the depth of the busing lip.

I'll bet a beer on my theory.

Last edited by worf928; 05-12-2011 at 09:45 PM.


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