Torque Tube Questions
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From: Navarre/Jay FL, Ex Manchester UK
Torque Tube Questions
On my 88 S4 Auto I’m removing the Torque Tube to replace the bearings, I know the auto has 2 bearings and a damper, I’m going to stay with OEM bearings, should I…
Keep it stock?
Add a third bearing?
If I add a third bearing should I keep or delete the damper?
Thoughts appreciated, thanks.
Keep it stock?
Add a third bearing?
If I add a third bearing should I keep or delete the damper?
Thoughts appreciated, thanks.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 31,280
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From: Philly PA
Have you taken it apart yet?? IIRC my 88 had 3 bearings and a damper
I would keep the damper,
do some measuring and drill 2 holes in the tube so you can insert a screw on either end of the damper so it wont slide back and forth.
FWIW the Constantine bearings are yard ahead of the stock system ,
i would still keep the damper,
if you go with Constantine bearings,
it wont hurt to be in the tube no matter what bearings you use just make sure to put a screw on either side of it as it has a tendency to slide back and forth
I would keep the damper,
do some measuring and drill 2 holes in the tube so you can insert a screw on either end of the damper so it wont slide back and forth.
FWIW the Constantine bearings are yard ahead of the stock system ,
i would still keep the damper,
if you go with Constantine bearings,
it wont hurt to be in the tube no matter what bearings you use just make sure to put a screw on either side of it as it has a tendency to slide back and forth
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From: Shawnee, KS, USA
In the unlikely event that you're not already aware of it:
Also consider installing a "Constantine Super Clamp". Now's the time to do it.
Also consider installing a "Constantine Super Clamp". Now's the time to do it.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 496
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From: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL (Jacksonville)
Hi Ivan,
I just had my torque tube rebuilt ('88 S4 Auto) with new super bearings (3) and the car seems so much more powerful now that the vibrations are gone. Amazing how much power is getting to the road!
Constantine told me the normal Auto torque tube OEM setup is 2 bearings and a dampner, he installed 3 of his bearings and removed the dampner as it isn't needed anymore with the addition of the 3rd bearing - a setup like what the 5-speeds have.
I also added the super clamp Constantine makes as well, so all the worry about the thrust bearing failure, etc. is gone now.
For the super clamp, super bearings and Constantine's rebuild cost me about $1k... Considering others were offering a torque tube rebuilt without the super clamp with stock bearings on ebay for $500+, I thought it was a good deal.
A good deal specially knowing that I would never have to fix it again.
Joe
I just had my torque tube rebuilt ('88 S4 Auto) with new super bearings (3) and the car seems so much more powerful now that the vibrations are gone. Amazing how much power is getting to the road!
Constantine told me the normal Auto torque tube OEM setup is 2 bearings and a dampner, he installed 3 of his bearings and removed the dampner as it isn't needed anymore with the addition of the 3rd bearing - a setup like what the 5-speeds have.
I also added the super clamp Constantine makes as well, so all the worry about the thrust bearing failure, etc. is gone now.
For the super clamp, super bearings and Constantine's rebuild cost me about $1k... Considering others were offering a torque tube rebuilt without the super clamp with stock bearings on ebay for $500+, I thought it was a good deal.
A good deal specially knowing that I would never have to fix it again.
Joe
Racer
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 496
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From: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL (Jacksonville)
Jeff,
If you are asking me, I think that's up to you.
I had some vibration when I bought the car Summer of '09 (75k miles on it). New tires cured the most of it (flat spots on the old tires), but there were still some drive train vibration.
After putting over 13k miles on the car, those vibrations slowly got worse and finally, my shop diagnosed the torque tube bearings were bad. That's when I got on the phone with Constantine and talked it over.
I could have saved a couple of hundred dollars with a rebuilt torque tube with OEM bearing setup and dampner, but I am very pleased with Constantine's suggestions, his work, 3-super bearing setup and super clamp. I plan on keeping this car and enjoy driving it.
I am so glad to be a member of Rennlist, the advise people hand out here is invaluable. The folks here have "saved my bacon" a few times with their good comments and suggestions. My 928 is better for it.
Joe
If you are asking me, I think that's up to you.
I had some vibration when I bought the car Summer of '09 (75k miles on it). New tires cured the most of it (flat spots on the old tires), but there were still some drive train vibration.
After putting over 13k miles on the car, those vibrations slowly got worse and finally, my shop diagnosed the torque tube bearings were bad. That's when I got on the phone with Constantine and talked it over.
I could have saved a couple of hundred dollars with a rebuilt torque tube with OEM bearing setup and dampner, but I am very pleased with Constantine's suggestions, his work, 3-super bearing setup and super clamp. I plan on keeping this car and enjoy driving it.
I am so glad to be a member of Rennlist, the advise people hand out here is invaluable. The folks here have "saved my bacon" a few times with their good comments and suggestions. My 928 is better for it.
Joe
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About the dampener, we have engineered our Super Bearing units so three of them replace the weight of the Porsche OE dampener. We did this since the OE dampener can come apart with age and cause a lot of problems later.
This happens since the two rubber ends break apart which hold the weight in place. The heavy weight then travels up and down the TT under braking and acceleration moving the bearing units from their assigned positions. This then causes vibrations in the drive line.
Thanks guys for the kind words on our Super Bearings and Super Clamp!
Cheers,
This happens since the two rubber ends break apart which hold the weight in place. The heavy weight then travels up and down the TT under braking and acceleration moving the bearing units from their assigned positions. This then causes vibrations in the drive line.
Thanks guys for the kind words on our Super Bearings and Super Clamp!
Cheers,
Rest in Peace
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From: Bird lover in Sharpsburg
I have seen the dampners slide out under gravity, all it takes is a few years of oil in the tube and the rubber is done.
That big ole chunck of steel WILL push the OE bearings to places that they should not be.
Folks that know me, know I am pretty much a OE type of guy, well this is a exception, along with the Superclamp.
It is all we will install at my shop, other than a new unit from Porsche that is over three times the cost and half the quality, strange, I have yet to have a taker on that option.
All it takes for most folks is to just hold a OE one in one hand and a superbearing in the other, they sell them self.
That big ole chunck of steel WILL push the OE bearings to places that they should not be.
Folks that know me, know I am pretty much a OE type of guy, well this is a exception, along with the Superclamp.
It is all we will install at my shop, other than a new unit from Porsche that is over three times the cost and half the quality, strange, I have yet to have a taker on that option.
All it takes for most folks is to just hold a OE one in one hand and a superbearing in the other, they sell them self.
About the dampener, we have engineered our Super Bearing units so three of them replace the weight of the Porsche OE dampener. We did this since the OE dampener can come apart with age and cause a lot of problems later.
This happens since the two rubber ends break apart which hold the weight in place. The heavy weight then travels up and down the TT under braking and acceleration moving the bearing units from their assigned positions. This then causes vibrations in the drive line.
Thanks guys for the kind words on our Super Bearings and Super Clamp!
Cheers,
This happens since the two rubber ends break apart which hold the weight in place. The heavy weight then travels up and down the TT under braking and acceleration moving the bearing units from their assigned positions. This then causes vibrations in the drive line.
Thanks guys for the kind words on our Super Bearings and Super Clamp!
Cheers,
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 733
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From: Navarre/Jay FL, Ex Manchester UK
Update
I now have the TT out of my S4 Auto and dismantled, the most obvious thing is that the shaft has been spinning in the bearings; Constantine said this might be happening and is bang on. The end pieces on the damper are loose, one of them is damaged either by me removing it or when installed when it was last rebuilt. The tape on the tube marks the position of the bearings and damper
Not sure about the orientation of the bearings and damper, spacing don’t look right to me, there are 3 bearings, the bearings seem fine when spinning the in the hand, no noise or looseness but under load maybe a different story
Would the above cause the vibration I feel when driving the car, to recap, the vibration is in acceleration, less in cruise, stronger vibration when changing into 3rd at the same speed, i.e. more engine rpm?
None of the above is going back in; I’m fitting Constantine’s super bearings.
Thanks,
Not sure about the orientation of the bearings and damper, spacing don’t look right to me, there are 3 bearings, the bearings seem fine when spinning the in the hand, no noise or looseness but under load maybe a different story
Would the above cause the vibration I feel when driving the car, to recap, the vibration is in acceleration, less in cruise, stronger vibration when changing into 3rd at the same speed, i.e. more engine rpm?
None of the above is going back in; I’m fitting Constantine’s super bearings.
Thanks,
Racer
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 496
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From: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL (Jacksonville)
Ivan,
I think the vibration is torque related, not speed. IE when the torque tube gets loaded up it tends to move towards one side or the other, then things start going haywire, the dampner and bearings move around. My guess its all related the deformation of the old rubber, under load, on the outside of the bearings.
Joe
I think the vibration is torque related, not speed. IE when the torque tube gets loaded up it tends to move towards one side or the other, then things start going haywire, the dampner and bearings move around. My guess its all related the deformation of the old rubber, under load, on the outside of the bearings.
Joe
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2004
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Hi Ivan,
I concur with Joe, the symptoms you describe sound like the drive shaft is not well supported any longer by the old bearings units. And that dampener is on it's way out and shouldn't be re-used.
Great pictures of the drive shaft rings which show what happens with the old bearing inserts when they no longer grip the drive shaft as they once did when new. That's why we don't recommend re-using them in a TT rebuild.
By the way, that TT seems to be a rebuilt unit since there are markings on it that suggest that fact and the drive shaft looks like a 25mm drive shaft than the 28mm drive shaft that should be in there. Are my observations correct?
Kind regards,
I concur with Joe, the symptoms you describe sound like the drive shaft is not well supported any longer by the old bearings units. And that dampener is on it's way out and shouldn't be re-used.
Great pictures of the drive shaft rings which show what happens with the old bearing inserts when they no longer grip the drive shaft as they once did when new. That's why we don't recommend re-using them in a TT rebuild.
By the way, that TT seems to be a rebuilt unit since there are markings on it that suggest that fact and the drive shaft looks like a 25mm drive shaft than the 28mm drive shaft that should be in there. Are my observations correct?
Kind regards,