Notices
928 Forum 1978-1995
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: 928 Specialists

Why keyless cars can be risky

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-21-2011, 07:13 AM
  #1  
Herman K
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Herman K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rockport, TX
Posts: 1,697
Received 14 Likes on 8 Posts
Default Why keyless cars can be risky

Not that I think 928's are prime targets...

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...h-car-thieves/
Old 01-21-2011, 10:18 AM
  #2  
martinss
Pro
 
martinss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Palgrave, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Was there ever a version of the 928 with a passive system - one that detects the presence of the fob and unlocks the car automatically without a button being pushed? I would not have thought so because that is a relatively new feature. The hack here is to relay the signal from the fob to the car over a long distance. An interesting article nevertheless - thanks for sharing.
Old 01-21-2011, 10:27 AM
  #3  
dprantl
Race Car
 
dprantl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,477
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

These new systems are so ridiculous. So people started getting lazy and couldn't be bothered to take a key out of their pockets and insert it into a lock, so then there was wireless unlock. Now people are too fricking lazy to even pull a fob out and press a button. If it's that easy to unlock the doors, it's going to be pretty easy for someone else too.

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft
Old 01-21-2011, 10:43 AM
  #4  
dr bob
Chronic Tool Dropper
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
dr bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 20,506
Received 546 Likes on 409 Posts
Default

Safety concerns have driven the need for getting a giant wad of keys out of the way of your knees and the airbags in an accident. RFID technology is getting better all the time, but it's still easily hacked as the artical points out. I'd like to have the system force the engine to no more than idle speed if the RFID looses touch with the car as it's driven, for instance.

----

A couple years ago, I was driving a rental car to a power plant site. At the gate, they have a pretty good size RFID search antenna so they can see employee's 'smart' RFID security cards going in and out. I stopped the engine to use the gate intercom, but then the car wouldn't restart. Took me more than a few minutes to figure out that I needed to PUSH the car back a few feet to get the smart key and ignition detector out of the way of that RFID search field. Car started right up then.

It won't be long before law enforcement will have the ability to "control" your car's available performance remotely from the following patrol car. That same patrol car will be able to immediately download the data from the "black box" recorder as evidence of what you've been doing. It won't be long before the front and rear parking cams will be recorded, and accessible for legal actions. When they have the technology, others will have it too. You can start and stop your new GM cars with a cell phone app now. Handy if you can do it, very inconvenient once others figure out that they can do it too.
Old 01-21-2011, 10:56 AM
  #5  
blown 87
Rest in Peace
Rennlist Member
 
blown 87's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bird lover in Sharpsburg
Posts: 9,903
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Back in the 80's when cars really started to have data that could be collected I said that day would come.
Now it looks like they may not even need to connect to your car to find out if you have broken any laws.
Might be a good market to get into, to have speeds reset every few seconds at will by some sort of device.

Originally Posted by dr bob
Safety concerns have driven the need for getting a giant wad of keys out of the way of your knees and the airbags in an accident. RFID technology is getting better all the time, but it's still easily hacked as the artical points out. I'd like to have the system force the engine to no more than idle speed if the RFID looses touch with the car as it's driven, for instance.

----

A couple years ago, I was driving a rental car to a power plant site. At the gate, they have a pretty good size RFID search antenna so they can see employee's 'smart' RFID security cards going in and out. I stopped the engine to use the gate intercom, but then the car wouldn't restart. Took me more than a few minutes to figure out that I needed to PUSH the car back a few feet to get the smart key and ignition detector out of the way of that RFID search field. Car started right up then.

It won't be long before law enforcement will have the ability to "control" your car's available performance remotely from the following patrol car. That same patrol car will be able to immediately download the data from the "black box" recorder as evidence of what you've been doing. It won't be long before the front and rear parking cams will be recorded, and accessible for legal actions. When they have the technology, others will have it too. You can start and stop your new GM cars with a cell phone app now. Handy if you can do it, very inconvenient once others figure out that they can do it too.
Old 01-21-2011, 11:00 AM
  #6  
WallyP

Rennlist Member
Rennlist Site Sponsor

 
WallyP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 6,469
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

"It won't be long before law enforcement will have the ability to "control" your car's available performance remotely from the following patrol car. "

Available now at your nearest Generous Motors dealer...

http://www.smartplanet.com/business/...rjacking/1722/
Old 01-21-2011, 11:09 AM
  #7  
Tom in Austin
Rennlist Member
 
Tom in Austin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas!
Posts: 3,267
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

I'm with you guys, a weird world when others claim the right to access data in your car's electronic systems ... I hope the hacker community gives us ways to blank out that section of the memory, scramble the numbers, etc.
Old 01-21-2011, 11:16 AM
  #8  
hacker-pschorr
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
hacker-pschorr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Up Nort
Posts: 1,551
Received 2,169 Likes on 1,226 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by dr bob
Safety concerns have driven the need for getting a giant wad of keys out of the way of your knees and the airbags in an accident.
This has always been a big concern of mine that is overlooked by almost everyine. Looking down and seeing a bunch of keys dangling in front of my knees, even in a minor fender-bender it's going to hurt and make the damage worse than just hitting the dash.

This is why I normally have my ignition key separate from the rest.

Too bad nobody has followed SAAB's lead with the center console mounted ignition key.
Old 01-21-2011, 11:19 AM
  #9  
RKD in OKC
Rennlist Member
 
RKD in OKC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: In a tizzy
Posts: 4,987
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

Hence the rotating code garage door openers.
Old 01-21-2011, 11:20 AM
  #10  
blown 87
Rest in Peace
Rennlist Member
 
blown 87's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bird lover in Sharpsburg
Posts: 9,903
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr
This has always been a big concern of mine, looking down and seeing a bunch of keys dangling in front of my knees. Even in a minor fender-bender it's going to hurt and make the damage worse than just hitting the dash.

This is why I normally have my ignition key separate from the rest.

Too bad nobody has followed SAAB's lead with the center console mounted ignition key.
Gawd those things had a high failure rate.
They put the switches for the doors and the windows there also, a perfect place to get coffee or a coke spilled in them, of beer if you are from a frozen place like MN.
Old 01-21-2011, 11:26 AM
  #11  
GlenL
Nordschleife Master
 
GlenL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 7,651
Received 22 Likes on 21 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by blown 87
Gawd those things had a high failure rate.
They put the switches for the doors and the windows there also, a perfect place to get coffee or a coke spilled in them, of beer if you are from a frozen place like MN.
This is why we need a firm, volatile hand in the moderator post: so people can be banned for perceived slights and spreading falsehoods.

We do not drink beer in our cars. We prefer slushies.

(Sic 'em, H-man!)
Old 01-21-2011, 11:45 AM
  #12  
dprantl
Race Car
 
dprantl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,477
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by blown 87
Gawd those things had a high failure rate.
They put the switches for the doors and the windows there also, a perfect place to get coffee or a coke spilled in them, of beer if you are from a frozen place like MN.
The ones that never have anything spilled on them work fine. I guess many people do not understand that when you put a drink on a flat surface without any kind of support and start driving, the chance of it falling over and spilling is very big . And these people are having kids

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft
Old 01-21-2011, 11:47 AM
  #13  
blown 87
Rest in Peace
Rennlist Member
 
blown 87's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bird lover in Sharpsburg
Posts: 9,903
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by GlenL
This is why we need a firm, volatile hand in the moderator post: so people can be banned for perceived slights and spreading falsehoods.

We do not drink beer in our cars. We prefer slushies.

(Sic 'em, H-man!)
My guess some days even anti-freeze turns to slush up there.

On average, not a lot of drinking going on in MN.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/fasd/data.html
Old 01-21-2011, 11:50 AM
  #14  
blown 87
Rest in Peace
Rennlist Member
 
blown 87's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bird lover in Sharpsburg
Posts: 9,903
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by dprantl
The ones that never have anything spilled on them work fine. I guess many people do not understand that when you put a drink on a flat surface without any kind of support and start driving, the chance of it falling over and spilling is very big . And these people are having kids

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft
It is not only that, but dirt and dust get in them, my 9000CD's window switch was almost 500 bucks, I kept 2 in stock and learned how to rebuild them.

The early 900's that had manuals HAD to be put into reverse to take the key out, unless you pulled a little, then the bellcrank would not be able to release the pin and they would not start until you took them all apart, for a tune of about 6 hours of standing on ones head.
Old 01-21-2011, 12:05 PM
  #15  
svp928
Rennlist Member
 
svp928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: central cal
Posts: 975
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hey, I had a 900 Turbo, and never had any problems with it- you just didn't read the manual...


Quick Reply: Why keyless cars can be risky



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 05:39 AM.