DJF1

Purchasing factory originals last year.

Yes really. As I said in my post speaking for myself only, I need these liners here and now. Every day I drive my 928 which is my daily driver I risk damage to PSD and other costs. Time for me is of the essence. My calculated risk to wait was based on the following:

1. Much better pricing as stated in my original post which quoted Jerry's publicly stated estimate.
2. The assumption of the good value. An honest product at a good price.
3. The willingness to support a fellow Rennlister that obviously cares.

And yes the factory supplier does produce them again.

The ones on my 928 lasted 19 years. Intact. It stands reasonable to expect a good 10 years from them. That is good enough for me.

Partially agreed.

My assumption like most here is that the factory originals cost an arm and a leg just because they can charge these prices. It stood for a good reason especially after Jerry's own estimates that we could get a good product at a reasonable price. I think the concours types would not mount not original stuff anyway as that would cost points and most low mileage queens I doubt have their factory originals in shreads yet. What I was expected was good value and product at a reasonable price.

There are vendors on this very board whom with my dollars I have supported and their products are on my 928 as we speak. Both these vendors offer quality and value against the Porsche factory solutions that cost on some pieces double.

My bad if I had the wrong assumption, that does not make Jerry wrong or me either. Just different expectations I guess which are dissapointing to me.

No I cant claim to have done this. As a business manager, having under my direct responsibility millions of dollars in annual revenue and expenses I cant accept "that's life" either, because my business would be broke. We may have to agree to disagree on this one.

I'm not beating up Jerry. I respect his commitment and dedication. The fact is that he has chosen to be a vendor and sell a product. That comes with applause and criticism. Its nothing personal, it is business. He is a business educated person so he has full understanding by his own admission. I respect his decisions. That is the best I can do. The key word here is business. He makes his decisions as a vendor and I make mine as a consumer. Its a business decision and transaction.

I also clearly stated that his product will be superior. I just let him know where my position stands on the matter as I have asked him on this very same thread to make a set for me, so its only fair to detail why I wont be buying the product at this point.

That is the last I'm going to say on this matter. We may agree to disagree, but I have been honest and I have no intention of beating up Jerry nor his product.

Alan

Simple questions - do you have the factory originals already? do you have a place you can order them? I have been led to believe only the passenger side is available (and the drivers side seems to be the one that is in more demand).

What is the cost of these?, and if you actually have a set - do they really fit correctly without modification?

These are serious questions - to ascertain if the "factory option" is a reality at this point - I thought it really wasn't any longer viable regardless of how I feel about them.

We can just disagree on all the rest - however I will say I too would have preferred to pay only ~$500 for them - of course!

Alan

Oh and BTW - I'd love to be in a business like yours where costs & development schedules are fairly predictable. Perhaps its the nature of high tech businesses but I have never worked anywhere where we didn't overun the initial budget and initial schedule very significantly on virtually every major new program - we were trying to do things nobody had ever done before - it usually doesn't work out at all the way you thought - so you learn a lot...

Now we sold millions of them so it didn't really matter that much, as long as you still got there first... - however in small volume...

ROG100

Alan FYI,
The factory liners - Right side - have always been readily available.
Left side was manufactured incorrectly about 18 months ago. They supplied a 91 GT/S4 size under the GTS part number. We returned a number because they did not fit at the fender lip and were about 1" short. Customers felt that for $500 they should fit. Eventually they will be made again correctly I am sure as there are plenty of owners waiting for them who know nothing of Rennlist. Currently none in the Porsche US/Canada/Germany inventory or sitting at dealers in the US/Canada.
Roger

Alan

So to summarize for now only 1/2 (right side) of a stock GTS solution is available for $590,

I assume that the other side when available will also be ~$590?

So $1180 +tax +shipping - full availability at some later (tbd) date.

I assume this is just for GTS fitment - is there a separate version available for S4/GT? $? or do you have to cut the GTS ones down somehow?

Was there a RHS for S4?

Alan

Jerry Feather

Thanks, Alan, for carrying the banner for me on these WW Liners. Based on the following that I am going to post I may owe you a little refund from what you paid me for the ones installed in your GTS, whatever you paid Dan to finish up the installation of the right side.

Jerry Feather

There are basically three things that have motivated me to do this WW Liner development; first, the opportunity and challenge of the creative opportunity; second, the thought of being able to share the result, if there was one, with others of similar 928 interests; and, third, the idea of sufficient compensation to keep me involved with it beyond the original creatrion phase.

In the course of this project, and particularly at this end of the creation phase, I think I kind of lost sight of or simply didn't realize how my focus on the third motivation, the price, was going to affect the second, the availability to those in need.

What I have found myself doing is offering these to a couple of people who have been interested over the long term at a discount. I don't think that is the right way to deal with these for everyone who might be involved, on a case by case basis, so I am going to eat my words--although I think the phrase "not likely" probably leaves me a little wiggle room--and discount my previously announced price for everyone, at least for now and for the introductory price period when that begins a little later.

I said originally that I thought I could make these for $300 per side, and I think I confirmed something close to that more recently. I wont know for sure if that is going to be true, but for now that doesn't matter. One major thing in between those predictions and even after both of them, is the huge extent of development that I encountered.

So, what I am going to do is price these for now and through the introductory period for $600 a pair, plus $50 toward the development. I am also going to go back to the idea that the sound material is an option, but if included it is an additional $150 total for the set, installed. That comes to $800 versus $950.

For those few sets that I might install myself it will be an additional $150, butt notwithstanding, making these $950 per set installed; although again, my ability to install these myself is going to be extremely limited.

I'm sure that there are still many of you who are at various places below this price, even as adjusted, on the demand curve, but I still have to consider other things that I want to and some that I have to do.

By the way, the $50 toward the development was actually set by a small number of you with a monetary contribution early on.

By the way also, the price as hereby adjusted, $800 per set, appears to be about $400 below the going rate for a factory set, if there really is such a thing.

Finally, these WW Liners are not available for only one side of the car or the other, only in matching pairs.

NoVector

Hi Jerry (or anyone who has these installed)

How is the PSD serviced with the new liners? I’ve flipped back about 10 pages on this post and I didn’t see pictures of the driver’s side. Just curious if half the shell is removed or the whole shell; and how long does it take to remove the shell (assuming the brackets stay attached to the car.)

I had to remove my PSD a couple days ago (fluid back-flow issue with the one-way valve) and was thinking that the whole shell would probably have to be removed for service. No matter what, it’s a crappy location for the PSD—to reach the electrical connections, refill the reservoir, reach the bleeder nipple, etc. I’m guessing the whole shell is removed(?)

Jerry Feather

Hi Bruce. The only report I have so far is from Dan who was working on Rich's PSD after I installed the liners in Rich's GTS. I had originally thought that the PSD might be serviced by taking the only outer half of the Liner out, and I am still not sure that that cannot be accomplished. However, Dan said that they took the whole liner out to do the work on Rich's PSD, but I think that was more extensive than just service.

In any case, after the liners are installed, the brackets do not need to be removed again. There are two screws holding the outer half to the car plus the dozen liner clips that hold the outer half to the inner half. The clips are removed with a special pair of pliers that I have fabricated and provided with the liners, and except for the one or two clips that might be damaged, they are reusable. There are extras provided with each kit.


With the outer half removed, the inner half is held in place with one screw at the bottom of both the front and rear, and then with five screws around to perimiter. I am essentially eliminating the need for the four clips on the inboard surface of the liners, so they are no longer a factor.

Dan and Rich both said that after I left, they took the liner out to do the PSD work and that it was very simple. I think Alan's suggestion that the two piece construction is a good idea also relates to the simplicity of removal and installation.

Jerry Feather

The reason the initial installation takes as long as it has taken me so far is that all nine of the mounting holes in the plastic must be located and drilled because I have not been able to determine if the holes will always be in exactly the same location so that tooling can be devised for jig drilling them ahead of time. With the installations I have done so far, three in Arizona, at least some of the holes were not in the same locations, or close enough to have been predrilled.

Then, after the holes are located I have provided some hand fabricated ABS Plastic washers that I make from some of the scrap ABS and these must be glued with ABS Cement to the hole locations to double the thickness for strength and longevity. There are eight on each side that must be doubled.

I am hoping that when I have eliminated the need to grind any plastic off these liners so they fit, and I may have done that already, the initial installation time will be reduced to about two hours. That is for me at least, since I don't have to read the several pages of instructions that will be needed by others in the field.

Jerry Feather

Brtuce, I think the liner on either side can be removed and reinstalled, both inner and outer halves, in between 5 and 10 minutes, after the initial installation.

Big Easy Sharkster

Jerry

When yr ready to ship the pair, I'm ready to take delivery. Thanks all yr effort.

Tom in Austin

Good update Jerry, thanks

SteveG

U have PM.

PortlandTom

Jerry,

Thanks for reconsidering your pricing. Put me down for a set when they're ready for users to install.

P.S., Upon reflection, my previous post comes off somewhat snarky. It wasn't meant that way, and I apologize if you took it that way.

Jerry Feather

Hi Josh. The trip is on for this coming weekend. I hope to be able to meet up with you and install a set in your GTS on Friday. Send me some contact information so we can coordinate it. Send to

jfeather@bresnan.net