Twitchy and nervous
10-26-2010, 12:33 AM
#16
Supercharged
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So here's what I found on the tie rod ends. There appears to be no play in the rack with the bushings or visible in the tie rod ends. I put my hands on the tie rods as my wife rocked the steering back and forth. I could just barely feel a minute amount of play. Almost a "tic" movement as the steering went back and forth. Same feeling on both sides. Probably not any more than a gear mesh amount of movement from the feel of it.
Is this what I should be feeling? If not, I'll have the shop replace both inner and outer ends.
Then after I get feedback, I'll go in and get the caster put more negative.
Is this what I should be feeling? If not, I'll have the shop replace both inner and outer ends.
Then after I get feedback, I'll go in and get the caster put more negative.
I would just jack up one side. Leaving the tire ont he ground on the other side will help isolate play in rack. With the one side jacked up, grap the wheel at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock. Wiggle back and forth. Any play will likely be the inner or outer ball joint. Do the same at 6 and 12. Any play here could be upper or lower ball joint. If you have play at all 4, then it could be a matter of a loose/worn front wheel bearing.
Repeat on the other side.
10-26-2010, 12:45 AM
#17
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My geuss would be excessive toe out , due to not allowing the suspension to settle after jacking.
Read the Home DIY Alignment thread Then say Thanks to Dr. Bob and Earl.
My street car is a little twitchy but I am running 285's on the front and 0 toe.
Good luck.
Sean
Read the Home DIY Alignment thread Then say Thanks to Dr. Bob and Earl.
My street car is a little twitchy but I am running 285's on the front and 0 toe.
Good luck.
Sean
10-26-2010, 01:14 AM
#18
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Jeff:
Review, in your mind, when the handling started to feel bad. This should tell you where the problem is.
Keep in mind that mixing different tires, front and rear, can make a car evil.
I think you messed up on the springs/shocks. I think you'd be way happier and the car would drive way better with stock springs and Bilsteins.
Review, in your mind, when the handling started to feel bad. This should tell you where the problem is.
Keep in mind that mixing different tires, front and rear, can make a car evil.
I think you messed up on the springs/shocks. I think you'd be way happier and the car would drive way better with stock springs and Bilsteins.
10-26-2010, 08:22 AM
#19
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Jeff:
Review, in your mind, when the handling started to feel bad. This should tell you where the problem is.
Keep in mind that mixing different tires, front and rear, can make a car evil.
I think you messed up on the springs/shocks. I think you'd be way happier and the car would drive way better with stock springs and Bilsteins.
Review, in your mind, when the handling started to feel bad. This should tell you where the problem is.
Keep in mind that mixing different tires, front and rear, can make a car evil.
I think you messed up on the springs/shocks. I think you'd be way happier and the car would drive way better with stock springs and Bilsteins.
Wont be able to do anything this week with the alignment or tires cause it is storming so bad and I don't want to take a chance with hail.
Wish I lived closer to your shop, 1900 miles is a long way to drive for service.
10-26-2010, 08:56 AM
#20
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+1 on not mixing the tyres. sidewalls can be very different from brand to brand, so a high performance sport tyre would generally have a stiffer side wall.
I have personally experienced that; turn in, rear moves out, reduce turn in feel, due to fitting different rear tyresto fronts, 7 rear sets in 5 years....vs 1 set of fronts!
the light steering is another issue. Others know more!
what rims? offsets? that can cause tramlining
I have personally experienced that; turn in, rear moves out, reduce turn in feel, due to fitting different rear tyresto fronts, 7 rear sets in 5 years....vs 1 set of fronts!
the light steering is another issue. Others know more!
what rims? offsets? that can cause tramlining
10-26-2010, 11:26 AM
#21
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So the shop checked the front end. Everything is good.
They asked that I post the final alignment (last month done) and have you guys write in where they should get the settings to.
I am getting matching tires for the front so the brand and model of tire are the same.
The alignment is posted. Feel free to either write on it and email to me or just post the settings. We'll see what everyone says. Yes I know the settings are not where they are supposed to be right now.
Ride height is at factory spec, suspension was settled before alignment. Had to take shocks to the top of the height setting to get to factory height with these Eibachs.
Thanks for the help.
They asked that I post the final alignment (last month done) and have you guys write in where they should get the settings to.
I am getting matching tires for the front so the brand and model of tire are the same.
The alignment is posted. Feel free to either write on it and email to me or just post the settings. We'll see what everyone says. Yes I know the settings are not where they are supposed to be right now.
Ride height is at factory spec, suspension was settled before alignment. Had to take shocks to the top of the height setting to get to factory height with these Eibachs.
Thanks for the help.
10-26-2010, 01:19 PM
#22
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If I read that right, you have toe-out on the front front and rear- this will certainly make a car twitchy! A small amount of toe-IN on both ends will help that considerably. I have 265 fr and 285 rears on my lowered car, and about 1/16" toe-IN on both ends, and it doesn't exhibit any tramlining on crappy roads...
So, some toe-in may be a good place to start. I don't see any other measurements that would make your car handle badly, other than the different brands fr/rr. Fix those two things and see how feels...
So, some toe-in may be a good place to start. I don't see any other measurements that would make your car handle badly, other than the different brands fr/rr. Fix those two things and see how feels...
10-26-2010, 02:05 PM
#23
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what were the specs and final settings? sounds like the toe is off and not enough caster.
I had the alignment done some time ago and gave some specs a few people had recommeneded. It seems these settings had made the car very twitchy and nervous.
Can I get some recommendations for alignment settings to make the car more stable and less twitchy. It seems to tramline even worse now that the front end was made more responsive.
Some feelings I get with the current alignment settings (all in factory spec) are:
Feels like it keeps turning after I have entered a turn (have to counter the wheel a little when in a sweeper).
Rear end rotates around very easily once the suspension loads up.
Steering is very, very light.
Tramlines over the tiniest pavement imperfection. It really isn't even fun to drive right now. I have to steer against the curve many times to keep from running off the road.
Rack is 6 years old. Tie rod ends are 6 years old. Shocks and springs are new.
I am considering putting new ball joints in to see if this helps anyway. I know lower can be replaced but I have to look at WSM yet to see how the uppers are done.
Also any suggestions on bushings I should think of replacing when I do the ball joints this winter would be appreciated as well.
Can I get some recommendations for alignment settings to make the car more stable and less twitchy. It seems to tramline even worse now that the front end was made more responsive.
Some feelings I get with the current alignment settings (all in factory spec) are:
Feels like it keeps turning after I have entered a turn (have to counter the wheel a little when in a sweeper).
Rear end rotates around very easily once the suspension loads up.
Steering is very, very light.
Tramlines over the tiniest pavement imperfection. It really isn't even fun to drive right now. I have to steer against the curve many times to keep from running off the road.
Rack is 6 years old. Tie rod ends are 6 years old. Shocks and springs are new.
I am considering putting new ball joints in to see if this helps anyway. I know lower can be replaced but I have to look at WSM yet to see how the uppers are done.
Also any suggestions on bushings I should think of replacing when I do the ball joints this winter would be appreciated as well.
10-29-2010, 11:02 PM
#24
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Okay so here is where I am. Per Greg Brown's suggestion (he's a genius with 928's BTW), I put the same brand tires on the front as were on the rear (Greg said he has seen them become Evil with different brand tires). My car is 95% cured of the stupid twitchy and nervous. I had Michelin Pilot A/S Sport Plus tires on. Rears wore out in 15k (45k rated HA!!). Fronts were fine so I figured just buy rears. MISTAKE. MISTAKE MISTAKE.
I will now replace only with the same brand that is on the car so there are 4 of the same tires on the car.
I am driving to Chicago on Monday to go to a food packaging expo (can you say exciting! NOT). I'll take the shark and see how it does on the Windy City's less than perfect streets. Good 6 hour round trip to stretch the legs of the girl.
I will now replace only with the same brand that is on the car so there are 4 of the same tires on the car.
I am driving to Chicago on Monday to go to a food packaging expo (can you say exciting! NOT). I'll take the shark and see how it does on the Windy City's less than perfect streets. Good 6 hour round trip to stretch the legs of the girl.
