Overheating after WP replacement... Place your bets...
10-25-2010, 11:29 PM
#151
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA
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With due respect, and definitely in the spirit of seeing A) your car fixed and running well, and B) Ed's pump working flawlessly for others.... in that spriit, it would have been nice if you were to actually have started this post with this new information.
If I had known you'd thrashed a new waterpump before running the new bearing in, I'd have had a different guess as to the failure mode.
If I had known you'd thrashed a new waterpump before running the new bearing in, I'd have had a different guess as to the failure mode.
10-25-2010, 11:40 PM
#152
Rennlist Member
Read posts 148 and 149 again.
Doesn't matter where the bearings are located in the structure.
Maybe its just me.
I don't have the guts to put a 32 V car back together ( for the first time ) with an experimental water pump, then subject it to anything but a long, careful run-in period. Must be the old-guy engineer coming out in me. No logic in my thoughts.
Good news is the limits have been tested.
Even better news, the car is solid and ok, and so is Brother NC Growler.
Both lived to fight another day, and sometimes that's all that matters.
Doesn't matter where the bearings are located in the structure.
Maybe its just me.
I don't have the guts to put a 32 V car back together ( for the first time ) with an experimental water pump, then subject it to anything but a long, careful run-in period. Must be the old-guy engineer coming out in me. No logic in my thoughts.
Good news is the limits have been tested.
Even better news, the car is solid and ok, and so is Brother NC Growler.
Both lived to fight another day, and sometimes that's all that matters.
10-25-2010, 11:45 PM
#153
Team Owner
Back to the beginning of this story... I did run the car for quite a long time in the garage (with the door open) watching for leaks and temperature issues without seeing an overheating problem.
Car overheated after a 10 minute run that could be described much as Mark described above (except my stock GT probably doesn't have quite the throttle response that Mark's does)...
Just happy that the car is fine and that Ed's taking a good look at things back at his shop.
Car overheated after a 10 minute run that could be described much as Mark described above (except my stock GT probably doesn't have quite the throttle response that Mark's does)...
Just happy that the car is fine and that Ed's taking a good look at things back at his shop.
10-26-2010, 08:50 AM
#155
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
No offense taken. I'm pretty much a potsie if we get down to it.
I'm very excited about being a 928 owner and part of the 928 experience for me is learning how to work on these cars. I am doing that by learning to rely on the great group of experts that hang out on RL and I started with trying to leverage what I think are some of the better minds working on making the 928 a safer and more enjoyable investment.
Landseer,
You are absolutely right! I totally neglected to put that detail in the first post and it was critical. No excuses. That should have been present in the post and in retrospect I believe it would have changed several opinions on this thread.
Can you clarify the highlighted text for me above? I do not understand the point you are trying to make. Are you talking about the bearing in the pump? Is there some sort of break-in period for a new pump that I am unaware of?
You insight would be greatly appreciated.
I'm very excited about being a 928 owner and part of the 928 experience for me is learning how to work on these cars. I am doing that by learning to rely on the great group of experts that hang out on RL and I started with trying to leverage what I think are some of the better minds working on making the 928 a safer and more enjoyable investment.
With due respect, and definitely in the spirit of seeing A) your car fixed and running well, and B) Ed's pump working flawlessly for others.... in that spriit, it would have been nice if you were to actually have started this post with this new information.
If I had known you'd thrashed a new waterpump before running the new bearing in, I'd have had a different guess as to the failure mode.
If I had known you'd thrashed a new waterpump before running the new bearing in, I'd have had a different guess as to the failure mode.
You are absolutely right! I totally neglected to put that detail in the first post and it was critical. No excuses. That should have been present in the post and in retrospect I believe it would have changed several opinions on this thread.
Can you clarify the highlighted text for me above? I do not understand the point you are trying to make. Are you talking about the bearing in the pump? Is there some sort of break-in period for a new pump that I am unaware of?
You insight would be greatly appreciated.
10-26-2010, 10:04 AM
#156
Rennlist Member
Common reference: mechanical "break-in" period.
Operate at lower levels of system stress, cycling them, to establish wear tracks where the rotating parts interface, including inside sealed cartridge bearings. I was taught to break stuff in slowly, whether the manufacturer has a recommendation or not.
I run stuff gingerly after reassembly.
Wondering about break-in and questioning my assembly procedure.
(Oh, and listening for wrenches that might fall off the car while I drive the first time.)
Operate at lower levels of system stress, cycling them, to establish wear tracks where the rotating parts interface, including inside sealed cartridge bearings. I was taught to break stuff in slowly, whether the manufacturer has a recommendation or not.
I run stuff gingerly after reassembly.
Wondering about break-in and questioning my assembly procedure.
(Oh, and listening for wrenches that might fall off the car while I drive the first time.)
10-26-2010, 10:07 AM
#157
Team Owner
Diagnosis would have taken a different course had the OP posted about normal running till the first drive...........
Simple fact the I web is only as good as the info thats provided, since most of the posters are guessing based on experience the more detailed the info thats provided the closer to zeroing in on the actual problem will be then the closer to solving the issue will be.
That said its helpful to post the last thing you fixed, the steps that were taken, and the results you have found,
leaving bits of info out can change the results of the guesses received and that can possibly cause other damage due to incorrect suggestions for repairs
Simple fact the I web is only as good as the info thats provided, since most of the posters are guessing based on experience the more detailed the info thats provided the closer to zeroing in on the actual problem will be then the closer to solving the issue will be.
That said its helpful to post the last thing you fixed, the steps that were taken, and the results you have found,
leaving bits of info out can change the results of the guesses received and that can possibly cause other damage due to incorrect suggestions for repairs
10-26-2010, 10:19 AM
#158
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Not knowing much about "running in" bearings, I just hunted around a little and came up with this, from SKF:
Grease lubrication — Running-in of grease lubricated high-precision bearings
Whether or not this applies to the WP bearing in question, I have no idea. I suspect none of us has actually monitored bearing temperatures on the WP before, though.
I know that I'm sure hypersensitive to every little noise and anomaly after starting the car after I've done significant work (and also treat the car rather gingerly for awhile). It takes a few weeks for the confidence to come back that the repair was actually OK.
Grease lubrication — Running-in of grease lubricated high-precision bearings
Whether or not this applies to the WP bearing in question, I have no idea. I suspect none of us has actually monitored bearing temperatures on the WP before, though.
I know that I'm sure hypersensitive to every little noise and anomaly after starting the car after I've done significant work (and also treat the car rather gingerly for awhile). It takes a few weeks for the confidence to come back that the repair was actually OK.
10-26-2010, 11:51 AM
#160
Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I too have never heard of breaking in a water pump. Though it might have been good to hear the car had been driven as it is certainly capable of in the OP, what could have possibly had anything he had done affected the bearings, especially after a lengthy run in before taking it out of the garage?
I've replaced numerous water pumps trackside over the years where there was little or no run in. They seemed to last as long after blasting around the track as the ones I did on my daily drivers. The bearings are sealed internally. What am I/we are missing when one speaks of running in the bearings on a water pump?
I've replaced numerous water pumps trackside over the years where there was little or no run in. They seemed to last as long after blasting around the track as the ones I did on my daily drivers. The bearings are sealed internally. What am I/we are missing when one speaks of running in the bearings on a water pump?
10-26-2010, 12:29 PM
#161
Rennlist Member
+1 on what Landseer said.
So you replace the WP, Timing Belt, idler pulleys, and other parts and the first thing you do, after you've verified that the car starts is take it out and red-line the engine?
Give me a break. You're lucky that the WP failed and not the Timing belt.
So you replace the WP, Timing Belt, idler pulleys, and other parts and the first thing you do, after you've verified that the car starts is take it out and red-line the engine?
Give me a break. You're lucky that the WP failed and not the Timing belt.
10-26-2010, 12:52 PM
#163
Rennlist Member
Are you guys serious??? breaking in the water pump? better tell that to the 1000s of racers that replace water pumps at the track and immediately run the cars to redline afterwards. sure, run the car for a few mins, but thats all you need to do. after that, sleeve bearings are set. ball bearings, with perminate lubrication dont need any break in period either, but I do wonder what the effect of the water and the ball bearings has on their life expectancy.
Nothing against Ed's design, and I still dont even know reallly what the design is, but it sounds interesting. I was asking about what the stresses on that portion on the pump are, under extreme circumstances. (i.e. quick revs)
just because 100 water pumps have worked in street applications, doesnt mean it is a safe replacement to the stock design. and the stock design is flawed obviuosly as well!
. I wish I could in confidence, pull my pump and replace it. it seems like it might be time, but with my luck with new pumps, im reluctant.
Nothing against Ed's design, and I still dont even know reallly what the design is, but it sounds interesting. I was asking about what the stresses on that portion on the pump are, under extreme circumstances. (i.e. quick revs)
just because 100 water pumps have worked in street applications, doesnt mean it is a safe replacement to the stock design. and the stock design is flawed obviuosly as well!
. I wish I could in confidence, pull my pump and replace it. it seems like it might be time, but with my luck with new pumps, im reluctant. With due respect, and definitely in the spirit of seeing A) your car fixed and running well, and B) Ed's pump working flawlessly for others.... in that spriit, it would have been nice if you were to actually have started this post with this new information.
If I had known you'd thrashed a new waterpump before running the new bearing in, I'd have had a different guess as to the failure mode.
If I had known you'd thrashed a new waterpump before running the new bearing in, I'd have had a different guess as to the failure mode.
10-26-2010, 12:54 PM
#164
Rennlist Member
why should the water pump fail and the timing belt , on a newly replaced system? devek had been doing that for years, as I mentinoed above. the system can handle it, no problem. If it CANT, I would be worried
mk
mk
+1 on what Landseer said.
So you replace the WP, Timing Belt, idler pulleys, and other parts and the first thing you do, after you've verified that the car starts is take it out and red-line the engine?
Give me a break. You're lucky that the WP failed and not the Timing belt.
So you replace the WP, Timing Belt, idler pulleys, and other parts and the first thing you do, after you've verified that the car starts is take it out and red-line the engine?
Give me a break. You're lucky that the WP failed and not the Timing belt.
10-26-2010, 12:58 PM
#165
Rennlist Member
+1 on what Landseer said.
So you replace the WP, Timing Belt, idler pulleys, and other parts and the first thing you do, after you've verified that the car starts is take it out and red-line the engine?
Give me a break. You're lucky that the WP failed and not the Timing belt.
So you replace the WP, Timing Belt, idler pulleys, and other parts and the first thing you do, after you've verified that the car starts is take it out and red-line the engine?
Give me a break. You're lucky that the WP failed and not the Timing belt.
This happens on race tracks every minute of the day, globally, and within two blocks of new car dealerships throughout the universe.
Doesnt mean I'd do it..but..this is overboard.