Best Radar detector for the money
09-30-2010, 12:03 PM
#61
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Like I have said before, the 9500ix and Ci both have arrows, I wonder if they will be able to use them for threat direction after Mikes patent runs out.
It is my understand that BellScort owns over 90% of the new patents on RD detectors, and this includes the GPS tech, and that Valentine does not own any new ones.
If that is indeed the case, they will be regulated to the lower end of the RD spectrum in the near future, they have all ready lost the "King of the Range" as far as how far they can pick up a signal to the Bell STI-r based feed horns as used in the STI-r, the 9500Ci and the Redline.
One thing is certain, once the patent runs out on the arrows, there will be many RD's offering them.
PS, I have had my GPS based RD for three years now IIRC and it is great, no way would I go back.
It is my understand that BellScort owns over 90% of the new patents on RD detectors, and this includes the GPS tech, and that Valentine does not own any new ones.
If that is indeed the case, they will be regulated to the lower end of the RD spectrum in the near future, they have all ready lost the "King of the Range" as far as how far they can pick up a signal to the Bell STI-r based feed horns as used in the STI-r, the 9500Ci and the Redline.
One thing is certain, once the patent runs out on the arrows, there will be many RD's offering them.
PS, I have had my GPS based RD for three years now IIRC and it is great, no way would I go back.
Hard to believe that the V1 was created in 1992. Mike Valentine is one of the inventors of the original Escort detector, the only truly good superheterodyne detector in the mid-1980's. One thing led to another, he left his partner and Cincinnati Microwave and resurfaced a few years later as Valentine Research.
The time he spent in hiding was not wasted. Since day 1 the V1 has been a marvel in design and detection. It has continuously been better at finding and locating radar than any of its competitors through the 90’s and into the 21st century.
The fact they have ignored progressing into GPS territory, makes me think they are just milking what they have until their patent wears out. I’m totally guessing on that. They either missed the boat on GPS (possibly patented by Escort/Bel) or chose not to compete in that market.
After reading up on the functionality GPS technology adds, makes me thing Valentine won’t be around say 5 years from now if they don’t step to the plate soon. I’ve never ever thought a radar detector could be useful in or around town, but it appears that the days of only being reliable on the open roads is over.
Now if they could just combine the best detecting system with directional arrows and GPS… that would be the bomb.
The time he spent in hiding was not wasted. Since day 1 the V1 has been a marvel in design and detection. It has continuously been better at finding and locating radar than any of its competitors through the 90’s and into the 21st century.
The fact they have ignored progressing into GPS territory, makes me think they are just milking what they have until their patent wears out. I’m totally guessing on that. They either missed the boat on GPS (possibly patented by Escort/Bel) or chose not to compete in that market.
After reading up on the functionality GPS technology adds, makes me thing Valentine won’t be around say 5 years from now if they don’t step to the plate soon. I’ve never ever thought a radar detector could be useful in or around town, but it appears that the days of only being reliable on the open roads is over.
Now if they could just combine the best detecting system with directional arrows and GPS… that would be the bomb.
09-30-2010, 12:07 PM
#62
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There is no human doing anything but connecting to the internet.
I love you guys that put down something you know nothing about and have never used.
Who said you can not run a RD and be aware?
As far as adding to your time, I do mine maybe once every other month, it is cumulative, what in the world makes you think you have to do it every night or that you are trading your god given senses over to a machine?
I love you guys that put down something you know nothing about and have never used.
Who said you can not run a RD and be aware?
As far as adding to your time, I do mine maybe once every other month, it is cumulative, what in the world makes you think you have to do it every night or that you are trading your god given senses over to a machine?
Im NOT putting it down. Stop taking a debate personally..ok?
If you only do the data once a month, the data -is- a month old.
Correct?
If radar traps were hard habit..in a year, you'd have it all wrapped up, end of story.
But because it's not..isnt everywhere suddenly a hot spot?
Its a great tool, but still..I see statistical issues in the data..it helps, helps a lot, but comes with it's own new set of unknowns.
09-30-2010, 12:09 PM
#63
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I agree with your hypothesis that V1 is milking its patents (which run out this year - December IIRC). Kind of sad really, but it is a business strategy.
Interesting read here.
09-30-2010, 12:15 PM
#64
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You just do not get it do you, if they are running a radar trap I will know about it miles away (for the most part), it has nothing to do with the database.
If they are running Laser, well I got that covered also.
Which would you rather have?
The database is for speed and red light cameras and to lock out KNOWN false signals to keep it quite.
It has nothing to do with how the Police operate, we both know that they move locations pretty much every hour or sooner, but they also have "Favorite" spots which can be put into the database as a known location.
Nothing personal at all.
Im NOT putting it down. Stop taking a debate personally..ok?
If you only do the data once a month, the data -is- a month old.
Correct?
If radar traps were hard habit..in a year, you'd have it all wrapped up, end of story.
But because it's not..isnt everywhere suddenly a hot spot?
Its a great tool, but still..I see statistical issues in the data..it helps, helps a lot, but comes with it's own new set of unknowns.
If you only do the data once a month, the data -is- a month old.
Correct?
If radar traps were hard habit..in a year, you'd have it all wrapped up, end of story.
But because it's not..isnt everywhere suddenly a hot spot?
Its a great tool, but still..I see statistical issues in the data..it helps, helps a lot, but comes with it's own new set of unknowns.
09-30-2010, 12:41 PM
#67
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I own a V1, but I do not use use a RD, I dont get tickets, maybe I do?
The rest is just whether or not we use technology to become a substitute for our own good habits and situational awareness isnt it?
I choose not to...that's all. If I use a technology, I like to know where it's weak, and play against those weaknesses..and I see GPS aided RD's as adding a new level of unknowns/weaknesses that need understood.
People still get tickets with GP RD's..they have a weakness...and it would take a proper study to understand whether or not my theory of having too much technology leads to inattentive speeding.
My day job is about understanding human factors in data protection, and how the human...is the ultimate failure in the security exosphere. I would rarely say never own a technology, just be aware of it's weaknesses, and adapt to them.
I helped harden my brothers team at DefCon this year, that won capture the flag..and human factors in how exploits are used and exploited, is part of that strategy, to both protect your flag, ensure the services that the game requires to be open/available to the scoring system, and capturing someone else's flag.
GPS aided RD solves a locality issue wonderfully, but, it's not foolproof. It -has- weaknesses. On paper they can be MOSTLY solved pretty well, but it requires consistent human interaction with the system to do so, along with a specific density of input within a specific geographical area.
Yelp works..because eateries dont move, and the staff, menus, and atmosphere of an establishment are pretty stable over a long period of time.
Cops..not so much, which is a human factor that introduces instability into the GPS data model It would take study to understand if this is over a short, or medium period of time. From my own observations, its about a three day shift in CHP locality where I live, on wonderful California Hwy9 and 35, and rarely back in the SAME place for the next few days of speed traps.
With that example, I dont see a GPS solution without active users, of significant density, uploading data daily. Because you need a high level of data to be able to scrub out moving tickets..where the cop was driving and he got you -vs- a set parked speed traps. As I said, that would require a lot of users with a lot of very active uploading to statistically weed false traps out.
But..like I said, its my job to find weaknesses in how humans use technology, and 99% of it is based on trusting technology too much. It bites back. Just...dont give up your own good judgement with it.
09-30-2010, 01:02 PM
#68
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That is like when that JAP airline punched in a lat/long to go to a mountain in Alaska on a sight seeing trip, it took them right to it, killing every one on board.
I agree, it is to be used as help, not as a substitute.
No machine is perfect, or Sara Connor would allready be dead.
I agree, it is to be used as help, not as a substitute.
No machine is perfect, or Sara Connor would allready be dead.
I own a V1, but I do not use use a RD, I dont get tickets, maybe I do?
The rest is just whether or not we use technology to become a substitute for our own good habits and situational awareness isnt it?
I choose not to...that's all. If I use a technology, I like to know where it's weak, and play against those weaknesses..and I see GPS aided RD's as adding a new level of unknowns/weaknesses that need understood.
People still get tickets with GP RD's..they have a weakness...and it would take a proper study to understand whether or not my theory of having too much technology leads to inattentive speeding.
My day job is about understanding human factors in data protection, and how the human...is the ultimate failure in the security exosphere. I would rarely say never own a technology, just be aware of it's weaknesses, and adapt to them.
I helped harden my brothers team at DefCon this year, that won capture the flag..and human factors in how exploits are used and exploited, is part of that strategy, to both protect your flag, ensure the services that the game requires to be open/available to the scoring system, and capturing someone else's flag.
GPS aided RD solves a locality issue wonderfully, but, it's not foolproof. It -has- weaknesses. On paper they can be MOSTLY solved pretty well, but it requires consistent human interaction with the system to do so, along with a specific density of input within a specific geographical area.
Yelp works..because eateries dont move, and the staff, menus, and atmosphere of an establishment are pretty stable over a long period of time.
Cops..not so much, which is a human factor that introduces instability into the GPS data model It would take study to understand if this is over a short, or medium period of time. From my own observations, its about a three day shift in CHP locality where I live, on wonderful California Hwy9 and 35, and rarely back in the SAME place for the next few days of speed traps.
With that example, I dont see a GPS solution without active users, of significant density, uploading data daily. Because you need a high level of data to be able to scrub out moving tickets..where the cop was driving and he got you -vs- a set parked speed traps. As I said, that would require a lot of users with a lot of very active uploading to statistically weed false traps out.
But..like I said, its my job to find weaknesses in how humans use technology, and 99% of it is based on trusting technology too much. It bites back. Just...dont give up your own good judgement with it.
The rest is just whether or not we use technology to become a substitute for our own good habits and situational awareness isnt it?
I choose not to...that's all. If I use a technology, I like to know where it's weak, and play against those weaknesses..and I see GPS aided RD's as adding a new level of unknowns/weaknesses that need understood.
People still get tickets with GP RD's..they have a weakness...and it would take a proper study to understand whether or not my theory of having too much technology leads to inattentive speeding.
My day job is about understanding human factors in data protection, and how the human...is the ultimate failure in the security exosphere. I would rarely say never own a technology, just be aware of it's weaknesses, and adapt to them.
I helped harden my brothers team at DefCon this year, that won capture the flag..and human factors in how exploits are used and exploited, is part of that strategy, to both protect your flag, ensure the services that the game requires to be open/available to the scoring system, and capturing someone else's flag.
GPS aided RD solves a locality issue wonderfully, but, it's not foolproof. It -has- weaknesses. On paper they can be MOSTLY solved pretty well, but it requires consistent human interaction with the system to do so, along with a specific density of input within a specific geographical area.
Yelp works..because eateries dont move, and the staff, menus, and atmosphere of an establishment are pretty stable over a long period of time.
Cops..not so much, which is a human factor that introduces instability into the GPS data model It would take study to understand if this is over a short, or medium period of time. From my own observations, its about a three day shift in CHP locality where I live, on wonderful California Hwy9 and 35, and rarely back in the SAME place for the next few days of speed traps.
With that example, I dont see a GPS solution without active users, of significant density, uploading data daily. Because you need a high level of data to be able to scrub out moving tickets..where the cop was driving and he got you -vs- a set parked speed traps. As I said, that would require a lot of users with a lot of very active uploading to statistically weed false traps out.
But..like I said, its my job to find weaknesses in how humans use technology, and 99% of it is based on trusting technology too much. It bites back. Just...dont give up your own good judgement with it.
09-30-2010, 01:17 PM
#69
Drifting
I own a V1, but I do not use use a RD, I dont get tickets, maybe I do?
The rest is just whether or not we use technology to become a substitute for our own good habits and situational awareness isnt it?
I choose not to...that's all. If I use a technology, I like to know where it's weak, and play against those weaknesses..and I see GPS aided RD's as adding a new level of unknowns/weaknesses that need understood.
People still get tickets with GP RD's..they have a weakness...and it would take a proper study to understand whether or not my theory of having too much technology leads to inattentive speeding.
My day job is about understanding human factors in data protection, and how the human...is the ultimate failure in the security exosphere. I would rarely say never own a technology, just be aware of it's weaknesses, and adapt to them.
I helped harden my brothers team at DefCon this year, that won capture the flag..and human factors in how exploits are used and exploited, is part of that strategy, to both protect your flag, ensure the services that the game requires to be open/available to the scoring system, and capturing someone else's flag.
GPS aided RD solves a locality issue wonderfully, but, it's not foolproof. It -has- weaknesses. On paper they can be MOSTLY solved pretty well, but it requires consistent human interaction with the system to do so, along with a specific density of input within a specific geographical area.
Yelp works..because eateries dont move, and the staff, menus, and atmosphere of an establishment are pretty stable over a long period of time.
Cops..not so much, which is a human factor that introduces instability into the GPS data model It would take study to understand if this is over a short, or medium period of time. From my own observations, its about a three day shift in CHP locality where I live, on wonderful California Hwy9 and 35, and rarely back in the SAME place for the next few days of speed traps.
With that example, I dont see a GPS solution without active users, of significant density, uploading data daily. Because you need a high level of data to be able to scrub out moving tickets..where the cop was driving and he got you -vs- a set parked speed traps. As I said, that would require a lot of users with a lot of very active uploading to statistically weed false traps out.
But..like I said, its my job to find weaknesses in how humans use technology, and 99% of it is based on trusting technology too much. It bites back. Just...dont give up your own good judgement with it.
The rest is just whether or not we use technology to become a substitute for our own good habits and situational awareness isnt it?
I choose not to...that's all. If I use a technology, I like to know where it's weak, and play against those weaknesses..and I see GPS aided RD's as adding a new level of unknowns/weaknesses that need understood.
People still get tickets with GP RD's..they have a weakness...and it would take a proper study to understand whether or not my theory of having too much technology leads to inattentive speeding.
My day job is about understanding human factors in data protection, and how the human...is the ultimate failure in the security exosphere. I would rarely say never own a technology, just be aware of it's weaknesses, and adapt to them.
I helped harden my brothers team at DefCon this year, that won capture the flag..and human factors in how exploits are used and exploited, is part of that strategy, to both protect your flag, ensure the services that the game requires to be open/available to the scoring system, and capturing someone else's flag.
GPS aided RD solves a locality issue wonderfully, but, it's not foolproof. It -has- weaknesses. On paper they can be MOSTLY solved pretty well, but it requires consistent human interaction with the system to do so, along with a specific density of input within a specific geographical area.
Yelp works..because eateries dont move, and the staff, menus, and atmosphere of an establishment are pretty stable over a long period of time.
Cops..not so much, which is a human factor that introduces instability into the GPS data model It would take study to understand if this is over a short, or medium period of time. From my own observations, its about a three day shift in CHP locality where I live, on wonderful California Hwy9 and 35, and rarely back in the SAME place for the next few days of speed traps.
With that example, I dont see a GPS solution without active users, of significant density, uploading data daily. Because you need a high level of data to be able to scrub out moving tickets..where the cop was driving and he got you -vs- a set parked speed traps. As I said, that would require a lot of users with a lot of very active uploading to statistically weed false traps out.
But..like I said, its my job to find weaknesses in how humans use technology, and 99% of it is based on trusting technology too much. It bites back. Just...dont give up your own good judgement with it.
Maybe the CHP is more sophisticated, but here in Indiana, Michigan, Ohio… were I frequently travel there are a number of hot spots. No they aren’t 100%, but I would say at least 10 to 25% of the time they are there. Wouldn’t it be nice to know where these hot spots are on roads… especially ones you don’t frequent?
I 100% agree with your situational awareness argument and that radar detectors are fool proof. I see them as just another data element one should have awareness of.
09-30-2010, 05:50 PM
#70
Nordschleife Master
With that example, I dont see a GPS solution without active users, of significant density, uploading data daily. Because you need a high level of data to be able to scrub out moving tickets..where the cop was driving and he got you -vs- a set parked speed traps. As I said, that would require a lot of users with a lot of very active uploading to statistically weed false traps out.
The GPS part with database is used to identify known locations of false-positive signals only. Stuff like Ka-band automatic sliding doors near the road, so your detector knows when a signal it is getting is not a speed trap. Traditionally, most stuff that emits radar or IR laser, like malls, are pretty static.
e.g. You drive past the local Denny's.. and where a V1 would squawk because it detects the automatic doors, a GPS-detector would know to ignore that particular signal (location plus frequency) and ojnly squawk if it detects something out of the ordinary.
The human factor however, is that Law Enforcement could potentially pollute the database with data on their typical hidey places, so that the detector would assume false-positive even if the signal is actually smokey. An alternative is end-users storing locations because their car picked up the automatic radar-based cruise control on a Benz or similar.. resulting in blankets of "safety" for radar-gun users.
Of course, all this is moot, and I definitely wouldn't be wiring something like an Sti-R into one of my 928's as they're illegal here
09-30-2010, 07:25 PM
#71
Wasn't there a site by a guy who did independent evaluation of the radar detectors. He sold them on his website, but he sold all of them so he wasn't biased towards one or the other. The thread started as a best radar detector. This thing has gone a little off track.
09-30-2010, 08:20 PM
#72
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Wasn't there a site by a guy who did independent evaluation of the radar detectors. He sold them on his website, but he sold all of them so he wasn't biased towards one or the other. The thread started as a best radar detector. This thing has gone a little off track.
All radar detector threads end like this or locked with folks banned or butt hurt.
09-30-2010, 09:55 PM
#73
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