expensive daily driven car: wondering what you guys might think....
09-27-2010, 07:33 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
when you can build a stock block, bored and stroked kit for $10k and then put on a CF intake and make 500rwhp? I think I would go that route!
mk
mk
Almost every day I drive! ;-)
I think the 928 block was cast pretty well, it has a main girdle instead of caps which I would argue is a superior design to caps, and for less than a grand you can get full access to the ECUs. So I am trying, and succeeding...
I agree with you though that if one were to drop $15k on a late model SBC derivative engine, that engine would make stupid power on pump gas. I am reading speedtalk.com forums and $15k for a chevy street motor is considered a nice budget which will give way over 500hp streetable on a light car.
I picked $15k because at that price you can get some significant extra ponies out of a 928 32V engine -- but not over 500 hp. Well, maybe with boost, but you could twin turbo a cheap chevy crate motor too for $15k.
I think the 928 block was cast pretty well, it has a main girdle instead of caps which I would argue is a superior design to caps, and for less than a grand you can get full access to the ECUs. So I am trying, and succeeding...
I agree with you though that if one were to drop $15k on a late model SBC derivative engine, that engine would make stupid power on pump gas. I am reading speedtalk.com forums and $15k for a chevy street motor is considered a nice budget which will give way over 500hp streetable on a light car.
I picked $15k because at that price you can get some significant extra ponies out of a 928 32V engine -- but not over 500 hp. Well, maybe with boost, but you could twin turbo a cheap chevy crate motor too for $15k.
09-27-2010, 07:35 PM
#32
Nordschleife Master
For a 928, what is the point of going to all the expense and trouble of installing a SBC? While it is doable, and the tranny can easily handle the power, it is probably cheaper in terms of labor and parts to simply take that money and use it on the 928 itself. A supercharger kit will get you same/better power for less money than a motor swap. A nitrous kit will give you silly speed for next to nothing.
For N/A 944, I don't know.
The bigger picture is that whatever you think is a fun project and that you enjoy is makes sense as long as it doesn't break your bank.
09-27-2010, 07:37 PM
#33
Nordschleife Master
09-27-2010, 08:25 PM
#34
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i also started a thread (oops) for people to exchange more lsx swap info.
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...-thread-2.html
stroking one of these engines is not necessary, or always desireable....
Lingenfelter has had 480 hp Ls2, 3 engines in the $ 7-8k range for a couple of years. 505 hp packages for a few $$$ more.
simply by adding a mild, "comp cams" cam, improved valvetrain parts, and an intake you're there.
that's about as far as you need to go with the 944. but there's more....
there's quite a few vendors that put together packages like this without stroking....
about $ 11.5 k for a turnkey engine like this:
http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...2_engines.html
"eclipsing the 500hp mark required only a set of aftermarket heads, a mild cam, (w better valve train components) and intake..."
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...-thread-2.html
stroking one of these engines is not necessary, or always desireable....
Lingenfelter has had 480 hp Ls2, 3 engines in the $ 7-8k range for a couple of years. 505 hp packages for a few $$$ more.
simply by adding a mild, "comp cams" cam, improved valvetrain parts, and an intake you're there.
that's about as far as you need to go with the 944. but there's more....
there's quite a few vendors that put together packages like this without stroking....
about $ 11.5 k for a turnkey engine like this:
http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...2_engines.html
"eclipsing the 500hp mark required only a set of aftermarket heads, a mild cam, (w better valve train components) and intake..."
09-27-2010, 08:39 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Any of this stuff can be mixed and matched with fab skills and money.
Life is short though.
928 is about the factory engine, then the styling, then performance, to me.
944 is about the balance of the full stock package.
I guess I'd take a later vette over a radicalized 944 and it would be way easier.
Life is short though.
928 is about the factory engine, then the styling, then performance, to me.
944 is about the balance of the full stock package.
I guess I'd take a later vette over a radicalized 944 and it would be way easier.
09-27-2010, 08:51 PM
#36
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a good upper range.... $6-11 k for the swap. $8-11 k for the motor. $11 k for wheels, brakes suspension...
$8 k for interior work, stereos, etc, swap for an LSD, high top-end tranny, rebuild tt.... divorce the wife... $7-9 k more cuz you might want to paint the car. drive it nice, (usually). try not to blow **** in the drivetrain up. it could work.
the guys shop for cheaper solutions.....
$8 k for interior work, stereos, etc, swap for an LSD, high top-end tranny, rebuild tt.... divorce the wife... $7-9 k more cuz you might want to paint the car. drive it nice, (usually). try not to blow **** in the drivetrain up. it could work.
the guys shop for cheaper solutions.....
09-27-2010, 10:49 PM
#39
Everything on my swap is brand new and updated.... $65 starter....$75 alternator...928 starter and alternator$???, Entire Big brake kit and rotors for under $400 all the way around. All new suspension parts (Toyota tie rods fit folks) I even made the 944 power steering pump fit lol. I had to design a better tranny mount with Polyurethane though. The 944 factory tranny mount even brand new, torque slaps the **** out of CV joints....fixed that
And fixed the real F-up that the German guy designed...control arms are crap on the 944....Reminds me I have to build another set
When someone blows up their 928, give me a shout, I'll start the C5 BH to 928 TT adapter, so I can have one on the shelf when I do a 928 with a 6.0 and some go fast goodies.
And fixed the real F-up that the German guy designed...control arms are crap on the 944....Reminds me I have to build another set
When someone blows up their 928, give me a shout, I'll start the C5 BH to 928 TT adapter, so I can have one on the shelf when I do a 928 with a 6.0 and some go fast goodies.
09-27-2010, 11:03 PM
#40
Nordschleife Master
So how do you do the exhaust on those 948s? The 928 has the Ford hi performance firing order, which may sound a little different from a Chevy. What's the best sounding exhaust you've come up with so far? I have true dual 3" but without a cross over, and the sound is not to my liking.
09-27-2010, 11:05 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
It is a tempting proposition.
Where are you located, BTW? A guy bought my 83 944 this aft for just this conversion. Says he has an aluminum vette engine from a total t-bone.
Where are you located, BTW? A guy bought my 83 944 this aft for just this conversion. Says he has an aluminum vette engine from a total t-bone.
09-27-2010, 11:11 PM
#42
There has been all different kinds of exhaust put on the 948's that I have seen. Unless you are pushing over 450 HP, then duals are not necessary. Since I'm only putting out 325 HP with the 5.3 and LS1 intake and tune, I have 2.5" all the way back, NO CAT, and a Magnaflow straight thru muffler that sounds very angry. I set off most car alarms at work....love it, as it does not sound Redneck-ish with the Magna flow. There is a member here, IIRC LovemyP-car that has a nasty dual on his 948 with an LT1 installed.
I've heard that 928 engines have oiling issues and crank bearing failures, not to mention a damn timing belt. What I do like about the 928 is the fact that the Manual TT has a seperate input shaft and coupler that makes clutch changes alot easier. This is the dimension I need to know to make the 928 TT to C5 BH adapter. I was at Oklahoma Foreign a few months back and couldn't find a 928 TT that had the shaft extension on it. this is critical as the LS based engines with the the 5.8" Deep C5 BH need a 1.00" thick pilot adapter for the TT..... I'm going to take a 944 C5 TT adapter and machine and weld alloy extension plate to it that mates to the 928 TT and call it a day.
I've heard that 928 engines have oiling issues and crank bearing failures, not to mention a damn timing belt. What I do like about the 928 is the fact that the Manual TT has a seperate input shaft and coupler that makes clutch changes alot easier. This is the dimension I need to know to make the 928 TT to C5 BH adapter. I was at Oklahoma Foreign a few months back and couldn't find a 928 TT that had the shaft extension on it. this is critical as the LS based engines with the the 5.8" Deep C5 BH need a 1.00" thick pilot adapter for the TT..... I'm going to take a 944 C5 TT adapter and machine and weld alloy extension plate to it that mates to the 928 TT and call it a day.
09-27-2010, 11:39 PM
#43
Gonna extend my plate out about 3" to make up for the 928 TT shaft extension difference....
It's a couple of CNC programs extra and some lathe work for the extension...
C5 2-piece inspection bellhousing with a concentric bearing like the 944 swap will be easier to change the clutch.....
I wish the 928 TT had the same flange pattern as the 944....would be a cakewalk......
The same Fidanza FW and $40 clutch disc will be going in the 6.0 928.....
It's a couple of CNC programs extra and some lathe work for the extension...
C5 2-piece inspection bellhousing with a concentric bearing like the 944 swap will be easier to change the clutch.....
I wish the 928 TT had the same flange pattern as the 944....would be a cakewalk......
The same Fidanza FW and $40 clutch disc will be going in the 6.0 928.....
09-27-2010, 11:51 PM
#44
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So how do you do the exhaust on those 948s? The 928 has the Ford hi performance firing order, which may sound a little different from a Chevy. What's the best sounding exhaust you've come up with so far? I have true dual 3" but without a cross over, and the sound is not to my liking.
headers into a y pipe to 3.5" single exhaust, 3.5" to 5" resonator, and 2 - 45 degree bends into a 4" hooker maxflow.
