1980 Euro-S performance compared to S4
09-06-2010, 02:00 PM
#16
Nordschleife Master
You are making more RWHP than my GTS's or my S4 (they are all auto which is sucking HUGE power off of them), but I suspect all of them make more RWTq than your Euro. They all weigh more too. I suspect your 5spd Euro would be hard for (if not impossible) for a stock auto 928 (of any kind other than a GTS) to run down. Go run it at the drag strip and see what happens, or get a GTech or use one of the iPhone/iPod apps (like Dynolicious).
You have a great running car there it sounds like. Just Skyped with David Lloyed yesterday! SUPER GUY! He was the first 928 Owners Club membership chair and was helping me w/ some of the Excel spreadsheet stuff for the OC.
You have a great running car there it sounds like. Just Skyped with David Lloyed yesterday! SUPER GUY! He was the first 928 Owners Club membership chair and was helping me w/ some of the Excel spreadsheet stuff for the OC.
09-06-2010, 03:59 PM
#17
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Mustang info...."Not that the Blue Oval's new six-cylinder musclecar needs more power. Yep, you read right: We called the new 3.7 Mustang a musclecar. Now if you're reeling from the idea of a Mustang V-6 ever being labeled with that word, or if you can't believe how far that meatball just flew from your mouth, chew on this: 0 to 60 in 5.1 seconds and the quarter mile in 13.7 at 102.0 mph.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_1003_2011_ford_mustang_v_6_test/index.html#ixzz0ymDTMZLB........" And that IS THE BASE EL CHEAPO Mustang . Like the man said there are lots of pretty quick/fast new cars out there.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_1003_2011_ford_mustang_v_6_test/index.html#ixzz0ymDTMZLB........" And that IS THE BASE EL CHEAPO Mustang . Like the man said there are lots of pretty quick/fast new cars out there.
09-06-2010, 04:23 PM
#18
Nordschleife Master
Worse when comparing to newer cars, cheap fast US cars, many owners do not leave them stock, and many of them have the same easy HP gains from exhaust improvements on top of a solid base HP. The other issue with US muscle cars is that many times they will have straight line traction enhancements that give them huge advantages off the line.
Have fun with the Euro S, nothing on the road has its style, and its very fast, plenty fast to get you into all sorts of trouble, just nothing close to as fast as any serious street racer.
Have fun with the Euro S, nothing on the road has its style, and its very fast, plenty fast to get you into all sorts of trouble, just nothing close to as fast as any serious street racer.
09-06-2010, 06:23 PM
#19
Race Director
Having driven both Euro S, S4 race, S4 street Auto, USA 84 race & numerous other 928's including louies Monster...here is my impression
WEIGHT WEIGHT WEIGHT....less is always better.....one of the most fun to drive street 928's I ever drove was a CIS EURO S 5 speed...GREAT car...currently owned by Charley B....I should have bought that car....Euros are quite a bit lighter than S4's....
On track you really notice the great weight of the S4's & GTS.....it makes the car feel slower to react and the taller gearing also makes it feel less responsive.....
I would say the most fun street 928 is a 84-6 Euro S LH 5 speed....underrated engine that loves to rev...and at least 100lbs lighter than S4's.....I would imagine a GT is pretty good too...but I haven't driven one of those....
WEIGHT WEIGHT WEIGHT....less is always better.....one of the most fun to drive street 928's I ever drove was a CIS EURO S 5 speed...GREAT car...currently owned by Charley B....I should have bought that car....Euros are quite a bit lighter than S4's....
On track you really notice the great weight of the S4's & GTS.....it makes the car feel slower to react and the taller gearing also makes it feel less responsive.....
I would say the most fun street 928 is a 84-6 Euro S LH 5 speed....underrated engine that loves to rev...and at least 100lbs lighter than S4's.....I would imagine a GT is pretty good too...but I haven't driven one of those....
09-06-2010, 06:25 PM
#20
Rocket Pilot
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: gettysburg pa.
Posts: 3,298
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The two mentioned are 6.1 and 6.3 respectively. the base pony isthe same. I have gotten stock autos to do it in mid 5's and 5 speeds to do it in low 5's. 5-7 10's is car lengths my friend not to mention what happens AFTER 60 to these cars compared to the S4. Also worthy to note, from a roll on you better have something very special to compete with the s4, especially a manual S4. I breathe this stuff bro so have no doubt.
09-06-2010, 07:13 PM
#21
Inventor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Weight is a big factor.
It takes a sub 9:1 (pounds:crank hp) power:weight ratio to feel fast for me.
My '85 is sub 3100# with a half tank, and puts out over 300 tq/hp rwdjsae (maybe 350 crank). It is very quick off the line (especially with my newest toy: dual rev limit/no-lift shift), but put a 200lb passenger in it, and it feels noticeably slower.
It takes a sub 9:1 (pounds:crank hp) power:weight ratio to feel fast for me.
My '85 is sub 3100# with a half tank, and puts out over 300 tq/hp rwdjsae (maybe 350 crank). It is very quick off the line (especially with my newest toy: dual rev limit/no-lift shift), but put a 200lb passenger in it, and it feels noticeably slower.
09-06-2010, 07:23 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 1,741
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Hi 
Although I appreciate what everyone is saying about weight...its not quite true.... its power/weight ratio that matters....
So you add enough power and weight does not matter at all....
When I took the UK 1/4 mile record at 13.03 @113 mph my car in full daily driver trim weighed 3800 lbs.... and yes I know that if I had stripped it down it would have gone faster but my point is the other side of the weight point is power....
The Euro S is already light and you if added a small amount of Nitrous (say 100 hp) which the engine can easily take you would have a car that very few 928s could match....and not much else on the road either....
All the best Brett
Although I appreciate what everyone is saying about weight...its not quite true.... its power/weight ratio that matters....
So you add enough power and weight does not matter at all....
When I took the UK 1/4 mile record at 13.03 @113 mph my car in full daily driver trim weighed 3800 lbs.... and yes I know that if I had stripped it down it would have gone faster but my point is the other side of the weight point is power....
The Euro S is already light and you if added a small amount of Nitrous (say 100 hp) which the engine can easily take you would have a car that very few 928s could match....and not much else on the road either....
All the best Brett
09-06-2010, 07:48 PM
#23
Nordschleife Master
No single factor means a LOT more than any of the other basics; hp, wt, traction, and at higher speeds aerodynamics like lift and drag. The reason why many of us bang on wt, is that around 300 rwhp NA more hp gets expensive, and trimming 300 lbs starts looking very appealing, and the results are something you can really feel.
For a 100 hp shot of NOS, how big of a tank would be needed to run three 20 min track sessions? Figure maybe 7 min per session of wot on the juice.
For a 100 hp shot of NOS, how big of a tank would be needed to run three 20 min track sessions? Figure maybe 7 min per session of wot on the juice.
09-06-2010, 10:03 PM
#24
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 1,741
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
No single factor means a LOT more than any of the other basics; hp, wt, traction, and at higher speeds aerodynamics like lift and drag. The reason why many of us bang on wt, is that around 300 rwhp NA more hp gets expensive, and trimming 300 lbs starts looking very appealing, and the results are something you can really feel.
For a 100 hp shot of NOS, how big of a tank would be needed to run three 20 min track sessions? Figure maybe 7 min per session of wot on the juice.
For a 100 hp shot of NOS, how big of a tank would be needed to run three 20 min track sessions? Figure maybe 7 min per session of wot on the juice.
If you mean 3 x 20 minute drag racing sessions.....then a 10lb bottle would easily do it...
If you mean 3 x 20 minute sessions on a roundy roundy track doing laps etc it gets more complicated as you REALLY do NOT want to use nitrous going round corners.... which means you can only use it on the straights.... and the amount of nitrous would depend on the length of the straights and how many of them...
To give a rough idea..my system with twin 15lb bottles would easily last at 100hp setting for around 15 to 20 minutes of constant use... but you will not be using it on corners so a reasonable time longer....
You could run quad bottles (I am considering it) ..BUT each 15lb bottle weighs approx 20 to 22 lbs empty (with valves etc).. therefore quad bottles would weigh...
4 x 15 lb bottles (empty with valves) = 88 lbs
4 x 15 lbs nitrous (inside bottles) = 60 lbs
Total = 148 lbs (although this would decrease with use)
I have simplified that a little as there are other things that complicate the weight etc but it gives a rough idea....
All the best Brett
09-06-2010, 10:38 PM
#25
Rocket Pilot
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: gettysburg pa.
Posts: 3,298
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
deleting this post. I had a leeeetle too much adult beverage last night and was trying to be funny.
Last edited by Kevin Michael; 09-07-2010 at 09:36 AM.
09-06-2010, 10:48 PM
#26
Nordschleife Master
Who cares how you get it up as long as you get it up and, more importantly, have a nice place to stick it in?
There are much more fitting sexual analogies to nitrous than viagra. Like something relating to the duration of the performance.
09-07-2010, 04:47 AM
#27
Advanced
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well a manual euro s will beat an auto s4, up to 180kph and higher, then the slightly better aerodynamics and longer gears will allow the s4 to eventually overtake the euro s.
But either way, lot of the modern cars will accelerate better because of 6spd manual boxes that has a lot higher efficiency and has faster ratios, but you should overtake most of them on longer than 1/4 mile runs
But either way, lot of the modern cars will accelerate better because of 6spd manual boxes that has a lot higher efficiency and has faster ratios, but you should overtake most of them on longer than 1/4 mile runs
09-07-2010, 04:48 AM
#28
Advanced
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well a manual euro s will beat an auto s4, up to 180kph and higher, then the slightly better aerodynamics and longer gears will allow the s4 to eventually overtake the euro s.
But either way, lot of the modern cars will accelerate better because of 6spd manual boxes that has a lot higher efficiency and has faster ratios, but you should overtake most of them on longer than 1/4 mile runs
But either way, lot of the modern cars will accelerate better because of 6spd manual boxes that has a lot higher efficiency and has faster ratios, but you should overtake most of them on longer than 1/4 mile runs
09-07-2010, 06:01 AM
#29
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Wilbraham, MA
Posts: 2,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My race car started life as an '80 Euro S, I drove it as a street car for 10 years.
I eventually replaced its' street car function with a '90 GT @3 years ago.
Maybe about the same performance due to the extra weight of the GT...?
I eventually replaced its' street car function with a '90 GT @3 years ago.
Maybe about the same performance due to the extra weight of the GT...?
09-07-2010, 02:23 PM
#30
Advanced
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Estevan Saskatchewan
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If anyone here has a stock toyota camry beating an S4....they better keep it as it is the fastest Camry ever!!! I could give a **** less what they say they have for stock HP......LINE 'EM UP!!!!