Yet another top-end refresh (WAS: Trying to fix irregular/poor idle ...)
#91
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Lettering added to head (valve/cam) covers
Lettering (from Hooked on Cars) installed on head (a.k.a. valve/cam) covers.
I like these! I should have roughed up the powder coated surface where I applied these, but I didn't, and they didn't adhere all that well. After a couple of passes with a hair drier to heat them up again and pressing them down while warm, they seem to be sticking OK now.
I like these! I should have roughed up the powder coated surface where I applied these, but I didn't, and they didn't adhere all that well. After a couple of passes with a hair drier to heat them up again and pressing them down while warm, they seem to be sticking OK now.
Last edited by Ed Scherer; 05-10-2011 at 12:05 AM.
#93
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Lettering painted on intake
After dry-positioning the Hooked on Cars lettering for the intake, I elected not to proceed with using them; IMHO, they just stick out too far. Instead, I decided to just paint.
I could take my time on this, as I was working at our bar.
Too bad I can't leave this as a permanent part of the bar decor.
This is before the final clear coat. I would have preferred satin for the lettering (like the top coat of the powder coating), but it's gloss. I think I'll try sanding with 1000 or 2000 grit tonight and see if I can get the look I want.
I could take my time on this, as I was working at our bar.
Too bad I can't leave this as a permanent part of the bar decor.
This is before the final clear coat. I would have preferred satin for the lettering (like the top coat of the powder coating), but it's gloss. I think I'll try sanding with 1000 or 2000 grit tonight and see if I can get the look I want.
Last edited by Ed Scherer; 05-10-2011 at 12:05 AM.
#94
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Thanks!
Look back at post #65 for more details, but... powder was from TIGER Drylac. Base coat was Silver Hybrid 09/90190. Top coat was satin clear. Blasting, other prep, and powder coating was done by Industrial Coatings in Kansas City, KS.
You probably saw my thread "Powder coating intake/cam covers/etc. best practices (for the zillionth time!)" (which reminds me: I need to update the initial post in that thread, as I promised). I guess I was pretty specific with my instructions.
Look back at post #65 for more details, but... powder was from TIGER Drylac. Base coat was Silver Hybrid 09/90190. Top coat was satin clear. Blasting, other prep, and powder coating was done by Industrial Coatings in Kansas City, KS.
You probably saw my thread "Powder coating intake/cam covers/etc. best practices (for the zillionth time!)" (which reminds me: I need to update the initial post in that thread, as I promised). I guess I was pretty specific with my instructions.
#95
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It's alive!
Well, I did the last few things this evening/tonight. Mostly, new ignition wires (decided to replace the Nology wires, not because there was anything wrong with them, but I just didn't want to have those ground straps to mess with anymore) and putting a few final things back together: hooking the hoses back to the water cross-over, reinstalling the cross-brace, reinstalling the MAF and air box, refilling with coolant, etc.
And... it fired up within about five to ten seconds of cranking. Let it warm up. No leaks of any kind! And no signs of the idle problems that I was having... way back in post #1 in this thread two months ago!
Didn't drive it yet and won't until it stops raining, as I don't want spray getting all over since I don't have the belly pans on yet and will leave them off for a week or so until I'm sure there are no leaks.
Holy crap, I'm glad this is over. It's been quite a journey. Before this, it was a TB/WP job. So pretty much damn near everything on the top and front of the engine is now new!
I'm trying to remember all the stuff that I've done to the car over the last few months; I'll have to review my records and do a follow-up post with all that information.
Looking forward to the test drive, too. Especially to try out the dynamic kickdown modification.
A few photos for tonight...
Quickly laid out the ignition wires from 928 Motorsports.
Then I realized that since all the hoses were still disconnected from the water cross-over, if I just upcoupled the fuel line on the front right side (where the soft hose makes a U-turn and reconnects to hard line), I could just assemble the wires to the lift bracket on the floor and then more or less just drop the assembly onto the car and fasten it down. That does, in fact, work and makes the job relatively easy. I did have to relocate some of the wire spacers slightly in a couple of places, but generally, I really liked how easy it was to install a wire set like this that is so nicely preassembled.
Wires are done. That pretty much just leaves the MAF, air box, and air tubes, which you can see are still missing.
Everything is done at this point. Engine has successfully fired up and service covers are now off.
Done. Done. Done.
Kind of a letdown looking at the final photos, though; the head/valve/cam covers looked so nice before installing, but now they're pretty much covered up. Same with the water cross-over.
And... it fired up within about five to ten seconds of cranking. Let it warm up. No leaks of any kind! And no signs of the idle problems that I was having... way back in post #1 in this thread two months ago!
Didn't drive it yet and won't until it stops raining, as I don't want spray getting all over since I don't have the belly pans on yet and will leave them off for a week or so until I'm sure there are no leaks.
Holy crap, I'm glad this is over. It's been quite a journey. Before this, it was a TB/WP job. So pretty much damn near everything on the top and front of the engine is now new!
I'm trying to remember all the stuff that I've done to the car over the last few months; I'll have to review my records and do a follow-up post with all that information.
Looking forward to the test drive, too. Especially to try out the dynamic kickdown modification.
A few photos for tonight...
Quickly laid out the ignition wires from 928 Motorsports.
Then I realized that since all the hoses were still disconnected from the water cross-over, if I just upcoupled the fuel line on the front right side (where the soft hose makes a U-turn and reconnects to hard line), I could just assemble the wires to the lift bracket on the floor and then more or less just drop the assembly onto the car and fasten it down. That does, in fact, work and makes the job relatively easy. I did have to relocate some of the wire spacers slightly in a couple of places, but generally, I really liked how easy it was to install a wire set like this that is so nicely preassembled.
Wires are done. That pretty much just leaves the MAF, air box, and air tubes, which you can see are still missing.
Everything is done at this point. Engine has successfully fired up and service covers are now off.
Done. Done. Done.
Kind of a letdown looking at the final photos, though; the head/valve/cam covers looked so nice before installing, but now they're pretty much covered up. Same with the water cross-over.
Last edited by Ed Scherer; 05-10-2011 at 12:06 AM.
#96
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I spoke too soon; still have a stalling / idle problem
I spoke too soon on this.
Problem is still there. It still periodically stalls.
I'll be sitting at a light (or otherwise idling), everything's cool, and suddenly, RPMs drop and then sometimes it stalls, sometimes it recovers.
FWIW, it seems like the ARM1 (air/fuel ratio meter) shows little if any hunting at idle as I recall it doing in the past. Sometimes it hunts, and sometimes (I think especially when it's having an "idle episode") it'll just sit on full lean.
That's the bad news.
The good news is that I'm not particularly discouraged by this, because I actually am really happy about having the intake refresh done and powder coating done. Lots of the stuff I found under there was really bad, so it was something that needed to be done no matter what.
And... so much stuff has been replaced that there's not much left that could be the cause of the problem.
Let's review...
Replaced so far (within the last three months)
Other parts swaps performed (before doing the intake refresh)
Parts not yet replaced (but that I think might be worth considering)
Other findings from the last couple of days
So... ideas, anyone?
Problem is still there. It still periodically stalls.
I'll be sitting at a light (or otherwise idling), everything's cool, and suddenly, RPMs drop and then sometimes it stalls, sometimes it recovers.
FWIW, it seems like the ARM1 (air/fuel ratio meter) shows little if any hunting at idle as I recall it doing in the past. Sometimes it hunts, and sometimes (I think especially when it's having an "idle episode") it'll just sit on full lean.
That's the bad news.
The good news is that I'm not particularly discouraged by this, because I actually am really happy about having the intake refresh done and powder coating done. Lots of the stuff I found under there was really bad, so it was something that needed to be done no matter what.
And... so much stuff has been replaced that there's not much left that could be the cause of the problem.
Let's review...
Replaced so far (within the last three months)
- (unrelated, but just for the record) timing belt, water pump ("Engine Guardian" ), PKsn'r and miscellaneous stuff one does on that job
- main fuel pump (but not in-tank pump, which I believe I replaced about 7 years and about 30,000 miles ago)
- JDS Porsche rebuilt MAF
- MAF rubber elbow and Y connectors on each side
- fuel injectors cleaned and flow tested by WitchHunter
- hall sender
- ISV
- TPS (upgrade to 94/95 GTS style)
- CPS
- knock sensors
- flappy actuator
- all vacuum and breather hoses in and around the intake (also went with 94/95 GTS style breather arrangement)
- oxygen sensor
- ignition wires
- spark plugs
- distributor caps and rotors
Other parts swaps performed (before doing the intake refresh)
- loaner MAF; no effect
- loaner LH brain; no effect
Parts not yet replaced (but that I think might be worth considering)
- LH brain (although, as noted above, I tried a loaner)
- EZK brain
- ignition coils (last replaced 10 years ago)
- ignition final stage
- relay XXII (EZK Ignition System)
- relay XXV (LH-Jetronic Fuel Injection)
- in-tank fuel pump (I've got a new one on hand, but haven't replaced it since I don't think I've got a fuel pressure problem)
Other findings from the last couple of days
- vacuum at idle: 19.5 in. Hg. (-66 kPa) vacuum at front fuel damper and 24 in. Hg. (-81 kPa) vacuum at brake booster
- fuel pressure at right fuel rail test port: 48 to 50 PSI (and I've even watched it during a stall and it was still showing a constant ~50 PSI)
- no faults indicated from LH brain or EZK brain (as indicated by DT999 diagnostic tester).
- new ISV seems to be activating OK (as indicated by "clicking" when driven by DT999 diagnostic tester).
- new TPS idle and full throttle signals are correct (as indicated when read out by DT999 diagnostic tester).
So... ideas, anyone?
Last edited by Ed Scherer; 10-15-2010 at 08:41 PM.
#97
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Way to go Ed on getting everything buttoned back up.
Too bad about the idle issue still there, but I appreciate you optimism.
I didn't see a Temp 2 replace and check, but assume you have done that.
How about mearsuring the coils to make sure they're putting out the juice.
Too bad about the idle issue still there, but I appreciate you optimism.
I didn't see a Temp 2 replace and check, but assume you have done that.
How about mearsuring the coils to make sure they're putting out the juice.
#98
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My experience is...
I spoke too soon on this.
Problem is still there. It still periodically stalls.
I'll be sitting at a light (or otherwise idling), everything's cool, and suddenly, RPMs drop and then sometimes it stalls, sometimes it recovers.
FWIW, it seems like the ARM1 (air/fuel ratio meter) shows little if any hunting at idle as I recall it doing in the past. Sometimes it hunts, and sometimes (I think especially when it's having an "idle episode") it'll just sit on full lean.
That's the bad news.
The good news is that I'm not particularly discouraged by this, because I actually am really happy about having the intake refresh done and powder coating done. Lots of the stuff I found under there was really bad, so it was something that needed to be done no matter what.
And... so much stuff has been replaced that there's not much left that could be the cause of the problem.
Let's review...
Replaced so far (within the last three months)
Other parts swaps performed (before doing the intake refresh)
Parts not yet replaced (but that I think might be worth considering)
Other findings from the last couple of days
So... ideas, anyone?
Problem is still there. It still periodically stalls.
I'll be sitting at a light (or otherwise idling), everything's cool, and suddenly, RPMs drop and then sometimes it stalls, sometimes it recovers.
FWIW, it seems like the ARM1 (air/fuel ratio meter) shows little if any hunting at idle as I recall it doing in the past. Sometimes it hunts, and sometimes (I think especially when it's having an "idle episode") it'll just sit on full lean.
That's the bad news.
The good news is that I'm not particularly discouraged by this, because I actually am really happy about having the intake refresh done and powder coating done. Lots of the stuff I found under there was really bad, so it was something that needed to be done no matter what.
And... so much stuff has been replaced that there's not much left that could be the cause of the problem.
Let's review...
Replaced so far (within the last three months)
- (unrelated, but just for the record) timing belt, water pump ("Engine Guardian" ), PKsn'r and miscellaneous stuff one does on that job
- main fuel pump (but not in-tank pump, which I believe I replaced about 7 years and about 30,000 miles ago)
- JDS Porsche rebuilt MAF
- MAF rubber elbow and Y connectors on each side
- fuel injectors cleaned and flow tested by WitchHunter
- hall sender
- ISV
- TPS (upgrade to 94/95 GTS style)
- CPS
- knock sensors
- flappy actuator
- all vacuum and breather hoses in and around the intake (also went with 94/95 GTS style breather arrangement)
- oxygen sensor
- ignition wires
- spark plugs
- distributor caps and rotors
Other parts swaps performed (before doing the intake refresh)
- loaner MAF; no effect
- loaner LH brain; no effect
Parts not yet replaced (but that I think might be worth considering)
- LH brain (although, as noted above, I tried a loaner)
- EZK brain
- ignition coils (last replaced 10 years ago)
- ignition final stage
- relay XXII (EZK Ignition System)
- relay XXV (LH-Jetronic Fuel Injection)
- in-tank fuel pump (I've got a new one on hand, but haven't replaced it since I don't think I've got a fuel pressure problem)
Other findings from the last couple of days
- vacuum at idle: 19.5 in. Hg. (-66 kPa) vacuum at front fuel damper and 24 in. Hg. (-81 kPa) vacuum at brake booster
- fuel pressure at right fuel rail test port: 48 to 50 PSI (and I've even watched it during a stall and it was still showing a constant ~50 PSI)
- no faults indicated from LH brain or EZK brain (as indicated by DT999 diagnostic tester).
- new ISV seems to be activating OK (as indicated by "clicking" when driven by DT999 diagnostic tester).
- new TPS idle and full throttle signals are correct (as indicated when read out by DT999 diagnostic tester).
So... ideas, anyone?
Good luck nice work
#99
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Yeah, I've been thinking about the coils, too.
I do an idle adaptation after every significant change I make, just to be sure it's adapted to the replaced parts. I just did one today after replacing the oxygen sensor.
#100
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In that case
Do a MAF swap, migthy vac check on your vacuum lines , check coils and connections in side the coils and clean the 4 contacts inside the distributor cap.
I realize you may have done some of these as I've not read the whole thread.
I'm sure your close to resolve your issue.
Best of luck
I realize you may have done some of these as I've not read the whole thread.
I'm sure your close to resolve your issue.
Best of luck
#101
Team Owner
Ed nice work ,
that looks great , BUT why is the air cleaner is upside down???
Replace the 4 relays they can all be #53 relays ,
though one is listed as one with a fuse tester its still a 53
X,
XXVI,
XXV,
XXVI
and replace the fuel pump fuse
that looks great , BUT why is the air cleaner is upside down???
Replace the 4 relays they can all be #53 relays ,
though one is listed as one with a fuse tester its still a 53
X,
XXVI,
XXV,
XXVI
and replace the fuel pump fuse
Last edited by Mrmerlin; 10-16-2010 at 12:52 AM.
#102
Drifting
Looks good Ed.
About the stalling....
If your going to check electrical..... What voltage do you see at idle? You may have a weak voltage regulator in the alternator. When your coolant fans kick on at a stop light, what happens to the voltage gage?
I'd only consider replacing the high current LH relay (XXV), which provides power to the idle stabilizer valve.
About the stalling....
If your going to check electrical..... What voltage do you see at idle? You may have a weak voltage regulator in the alternator. When your coolant fans kick on at a stop light, what happens to the voltage gage?
I'd only consider replacing the high current LH relay (XXV), which provides power to the idle stabilizer valve.
#103
Team Owner
I would suggest to replace all 4 of the relays one at a time,
this will isolate the defective part
this will isolate the defective part
#104
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Do a MAF swap, migthy vac check on your vacuum lines , check coils and connections in side the coils and clean the 4 contacts inside the distributor cap.
I realize you may have done some of these as I've not read the whole thread.
I'm sure your close to resolve your issue.
Best of luck
I realize you may have done some of these as I've not read the whole thread.
I'm sure your close to resolve your issue.
Best of luck
May whoever thought it was a good idea to mark a filter with arrows going against the flow of air forever burn in hell. And I've put 100 miles on that filter, so I can't just flip it. Into the trash it goes. Thanks for noticing that.
Looks good Ed.
About the stalling....
If your going to check electrical..... What voltage do you see at idle? You may have a weak voltage regulator in the alternator. When your coolant fans kick on at a stop light, what happens to the voltage gage?
I'd only consider replacing the high current LH relay (XXV), which provides power to the idle stabilizer valve.
About the stalling....
If your going to check electrical..... What voltage do you see at idle? You may have a weak voltage regulator in the alternator. When your coolant fans kick on at a stop light, what happens to the voltage gage?
I'd only consider replacing the high current LH relay (XXV), which provides power to the idle stabilizer valve.
I'll do what I can.
#105
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So this morning I replaced XXII ("EZK Ignition System (w/Fuse Tester)") and XXV ("LH-Jetronic Fuel Injection"), figuring that if that didn't help, I'd put back the originals and then try the new relays for X ("Ignition Relay-X") and XXVI ("Fuel Pump,O2 Sensor").
Might be a little premature, but so far, I have not experienced the bad running and stalling at idle. This is only after a drive into work, though. I'll be driving at least three more times today, so I should have a much better idea of success/failure by the end of the day. There's just no way that I'd make it through a day with no trouble before, so if I make it through today, I'll be pretty confident that this stalling problem was in fact a relay.
Thanks, Mrmerlin and Borland, for helping me prioritize my list of stuff to look at (see what I had listed as "worth considering" in post #96) first; if one of these relays turns out to be the problem, that will have been a quick and cheap solution. And, yeah, maybe (probably?) this was the problem all along and I could have delayed the intake refresh a little longer, but I have no regrets on that... it really needed to be done regardless.