jcorenman

You're right, I missed that, apologies. I edited my post above to fix that and hopefully make it more clear.

With belt off and spark plugs out, the engine can be rotated freely either way-- see if it will go either way to the 45-deg before-TDC mark. If not, then the cams need to be shifted-- this can be safely done with the crank at any of the "45-degree" positions, but then the corresponding cam position has to be shifted to match. There are 24 teeth on the crank sprocket (15 deg per tooth) and 48 on the cam sprocket (7.5 deg per tooth).

backnblack

Just to make sure I'm following.
Are we saying that everything should be clear at 45 deg on the compression stroke of #1 cylinder or at 45 deg. No matter what.
This is one of my biggest Misunderstandings on this thing.
Well hopefully I can get a look at this tonight and let you know what I find out.

PorKen

45° #6 also.

UKKid35

I was thinking #5 but I that was just a lame theory.

SteveG

Whichever it is, (Ken is the authority here so far) it is in the WSM, you insert a dowel into the plug hole and the piston(s) should be at top of cylinder. No more guessing on this. Hope you haven't bent anything.

backnblack

while we wait for me to update feel free to post a Pic , this one's for Greg LOL
I don't mind.

mark kibort

yep, #1 and 6 are on the same stroke pattern. at 45 degree before TDC, the cams can be turned. (not the crank as was corrected above in the dialogue) getting the crank to 45 degrees will or maybe the trick. you migth have to move the cams around as you rotate the crank with a pair of large vicegrips. Ill have to think about that one. hmmm. You may never be able to find a way to move the cams as you pass through TDC of the other cylinders. you may have to pull the cams, but if there is damage, you will have to do that anyway.

76FJ55

You can position the crank at any of the "45 deg" points and the cams will clear. there will be a total of 4 45 deg points avaliable. 45, 135, 225, and 315 degrees. I would determine which of these points you are clasest to, and move the crank to that position in the shortest direction of travel. If you run into resistance going to that point try going the opposite way the the next closest point. Once you have reached one of these cranck locations it should only take a little bit of thought and we can determine the correct cam positioning for the given crank location. By going to the closest 45 deg point is will minimize the number of valves the pistons will need to pass.

Once you have the crank in one of these positions report back and I/we will help determine the cam position mecessary to reinstall the belt, then it will just be turning it through to verify and fine tune if necessary.

Feel free to give me a call if you need any additional info or clarification. Three 1 four 9 two two 9 5 nine 6.

Mrmerlin

please,
dont use vice grips to turn any engine part only use the 30 0r 32 MM wrench to turn the cam washers after removing the rotors.

its also a good idea to replace the rotor screws with other screws so the cam pulleys dont turn by accident .

DuncanR50

OK.....this should be interesting to see. What....put the belt on then and rotate through to 45 degrees, Then you still have an educated guess as to what the mark is at 45 past TDC. Though valve crash will probably also happen then.

Since the car was actually started and assuredly made several full revolutions out of sync and most assuredly bent several valves, I don't see why "pull the heads, and rebuild" hasn't been stated yet. Come on. Let's be realistic here.

backnblack

Thank you Simon that was very helpful hopefully I can finagle myself through this.

Ok to reiterate where I am and what I did.
1) I took the belt off while repairing a leaking oil pump and did not pay attention at all where any marks where ( AT ALL)

2) Started turning the car over after assembly but it would not start. Did not hear any terrible sounds it just wouldn’t start or fire.

3) Took it all apart again lined it up to the 45deg. mark on the crank but I am not sure if it is at 45 / 135 / 225 or 315 At this time but the motor turned by hand, but forgot to set it to #1 cylinder redid the belt. The belt was off like a tooth on each cam counter clockwise.
***** ( While having the belt off both cam gears sprung back about 1 ½ inches the passenger side made a not so nice noise, The driver side didn’t seem to sound as bad. It happen to the driver side first so I didn’t think much of it.

4) Put it back together and tried to turn it by hand before I started it and I hit a hard spot and I stopped. That’s where I am now.

So I am at the 45 deg. But at this time I do not know what which rotation 45 / 135 / 225 or 315
I don’t know if this sheds any light on this or makes if worse, I guess we’ll see.
I hope to get back to it this weekend. I think I have enough info to be dangerous

Thank you
Matt

backnblack

Thanks for the Tip Mrmerlin I have wrench sets and I'll use the screw Idea.
I just need to stop being a monkey behind the wrench

76FJ55

I would not suggest installing the belt until you get the crank turned to one of the suggested positions, 315, 225, 135 or 45. try to determine which of these points you are closest to and go directly to that position. Do not try to go through any of the TDC positions to get there. TDC occurs when the crank is at 0, 90, 180 and 270. Of the suggested crank positions only the 45 is marked on the ballancer, so you will need to intrpolate the other positions or add marks to the ballancer. to find the other optional positions you could measure from the 0T mark to the 45 and add an additional mark in the opposite direction of the 0T mark the same distance as the 45. this will give you 45 ATDC or 315 BTDC. The final to positions will be directly across from the original 45 and the newly marked 45. You should be able to get to one of these positions without crossing any pistons through TDC. Once you have achieved on of the recomended positions the cams will need to be timed correctly for that crank angle and then the belt can be installed. If you will let me know which postion the crank is in I can help you determine the correct position for the cams. With the crank in the suggested positions you can freely turn the cams without fear of any of the valves contacting the pistons, so you will just need to rotate the cams to the corresponding position, install the belt and then turn the engine through to TDC and verify all the timing marks line up.

76FJ55

I was in the midst of that last post when you posted your previous reply. if you are at the 45 mark on the crank you are at 45 degrees. We are talking crank degrees for all my precious angle references. this is different than cam degrees, but lets not worry about that just yet. So if the pointer is at 45 you are at 45. if the pointer is at the opposite side of the ballancer then you are at 225. if the pointer is at the same distance from th 0T as it would have been at 45 but on the opposite side of the 0T then you are at 315. And if it is on the opposite side from the 315 position you are at 135.

76FJ55

As far as knowing with stroke of the #1 pistion you are on... Since our engines have cam mounted distributors and batch fire injectors the only determining factor is the cams. So we will establish this when we time the cams not the crank.