GregBBRD

O.K. Enough fun and games with 3 years of me trying to find out how much quantitative engineering went into a this belt tensioner invention.

Let's just get down to the very basics of what it takes to operate a shop and do business on any level, in the US.

Simple yes or no question.

Ken:

If your tensioner fails, do you have product liability insurance to cover any damage that might occur to one of my engines?

If the answer is yes, please send me the policy number, so I can confirm this.

If indeed you do, I will buy and install one of your tensioners on an engine and give it a try...although you still have not told your customer in post #1 how to time his cams, with the belt jumping all over the place. He obviously can't do it with the engine running, or cranking. Should he install the stock tensioner to provide a stable cam belt in order to accurately set the cams and then install your tensioner?

I'm not trying to be combative, I'd just like to know the answer to post #1, in this thread, so I won't have to bother you later.

Fair enough? Can we be done with this?

PorKen

Why would you install one, if the original works fine? I personally would not sell you a bracket, as you have demonstrated a reluctance to follow directions, but I will play along.


As stated previously, I will replace the bracket if it breaks. This is the limit of our relationship.

The Audi parts are not made by me. I have no control over their installation. I have a demonstrated a concept, and tested it on my own vehicles. It is by definition 'experimental' or 'off label'. It is your choice to install it.



I directed the OP to consult the 32V'r manual in order to get consistent results. He has not posted on the outcome.

He exposed a problem in the text of the manual, which I corrected, and also posted in the thread.

GregBBRD

I'm going to ignore that. You've played enough childish games in this thread to last me a lifetime...it is now boring, for all.

Fair enough. I personally think you will find that your "exposure" is greater than you think it is, but that you will find out, when the first one fails....and it will. It is just a mechancial thing...it will fail. I would personally get some insurance and add it into the price of the unit, just to protect yourself. Lawyers love home grown, untested (quantitatively), unengineered things, like this. They get the house, almost every time.

Let's be done with this and just choose to disagree. You don't need my sales to be successful and I can't take the chance on something this homegrown.

Like I've said....I've never had a tensioner fail and damage an engine...never. I've never had the bolt for the idler arm break off...never. I've never had the idler arm loose the bushings so badly that it casued damage...never. I've never had an engine I've worked on (for the entire past 32 years of working on thousands of 928 engines) even break a cam belt....never. Even Mark's engine with the crappy cam belt that allowed the engine to skip cam timing did no damage! So, yes, I am pretty happy with the stock system.

Someday we will meet in person and I guarantee that we will discuss your attitude and how you've talked to me in this and prior treads about your tensioner, but that is a different thing, for a different day. You will find out how "chickenman" I am.

Fair enough for you?

Want to be done?

I'll tell you what...your personality seems to need to have the last wisecrack...so I' will be done and you can take the last shot at me for your comedy routine....a pure "freebee!"

James Bailey

Interesting picture on post 137 the Audi tensioner as it was designed to run.....note how they used an idler roller to push the belt back toward the centerline of the engine so the wrap on the crank gear (the all important drive gear) greatly exceeds 180 degrees. The more wrap you have the more teeth engaged the lower the required tension according to some design guidelines. The 928 using the belt to turn the oil pump gear has much less wrap on the crank gear. Most timing belt failures are teeth stripping off the belt at the crank gear the more teeth engaged the more they spread the load. Too loose however and the teeth start to climb out of the grooves and stress increases on the others.

928 at last

Now I'm a little concerned......
Given the amount of testing and observation of the PKnsn'r set up there's been, anyone with experience care to hazard a guess what a "safe" rpm limit might be here?
I really don't want to find out the hard way.
I don't live at redline, but I've visited a few times.........

Lizard928

Rob,

I have spun to 7300 RPM on a high lift 16V manual, no issues.

PorKen

Garbage in, garbage out. You'll have to admit to having a tin ear when it comes to following my directions. I SAID...

Anyways, I've had fun.


Fair advice.


Then why have you taken up so much of my time?

I will accept your apologies, gracefully, and let you buy the beer. If I have misread this, and you meant this is to be taken as an implied threat of assault; is an internet quarrel worth the hassle of jailtime, as they say?

By all accounts you seem to be a decent fellow. In my limited experience, however, you have acted well the part of a prima uomo when confronted directly with someone who you do not feel is your equal. Since we are giving advice, I suggest you do a little introspection.

Yes.

Sure.

PorKen

Jayzus. See how these things propagate? GB misquotes me, and now suddenly there's an issue.

The PKsn'r lives at high rpm. I believe it handles the belt better than the stock tensioner at high rpm. I have done many 10s of dyno runs to redline, and literally hundreds of uphill runs to 6400-6700 rpm in the process of testing my S3 chips in my '85, with a belt that already had miles on it when I bought the car.



Here is my actual quote, with emphasis added.

Contracted for clarity: "It was made for the home mechanic who doesn't want to worry about spinning the engine to redline."

928 at last

That's definetely a data point that gives me some comfort for my application.

928 at last

Sorry Ken,
The comma threw me.
I would have expected some negative feedback long before this if there was an issue, but being a closet paranoid.......
Thanks,

PorKen

It's OK, my fault for writing in english.


"Il a été fait pour le bricoleur qui ne veut pas à vous soucier de la filature du moteur à haut régime"



(Just kiddin' mon ami - I'm still a little punchy. )

Landseer

Respectfully, you guys working on the same team would be a tremendous positive force.

928 at last

Puis très bonne. Malheureusement, je ne suis pas un francophone bien. Beaucoup d'entre nous ici ne sont pas. (La plupart sont). Mais je n'ai pas un traducteur qui est tout aussi bon que les vôtres.

Very few are gonna get this if they're not east of Ontario, (Canada, not California) or overseas..... oh well.

And, just for the record,

Ma peau n'est pas que mince.

Bon soir,

PorKen

Pas de peur que de mal.

Êtes-vous un crocodile?

928 at last

Just that a lot of people seem to be getting very touchy around here as of late......(It's not just this thread).
And,
I just don't offend that easily.