Putine or no putine.........I'm sticking with the stock system.

 

I too am far more comfortable with the Porsche design too many unanswered questions as far as I am concerned not the least of which is how many degrees of belt wrap does the crank pulley need with the LOWER tension of the Audi part ???? I have no idea and frankly it appears neither does anyone else...... And "it has worked OK so far" is really not much of an answer.....just an expression of so far so good !

 

So far so good! (The pulley follows essentialy the same arc as the stock unit.)

BTW: don't you have a if-the-belt-breaks-just-put-a-new-one-on '80?

Why would you be concerned, again?

 

Yes I ran the old very brown 1980 for many years never bothered to look at the belt finally after coming around turn 8 at Willow reline last lap exited the track and as I slowed in the infield for a U -turn it made a funny sound and stopped. Hit the key and heard it cranking too fast on the starter motor. Knew the belt had slipped. Called AAA free tow hauled it back and put on a new belt. So no I personally could car less but feel that for those with interference engines being on the "cutting edge" with something which sort a kind looks like it might work is NOT where I would wish to be. Just my opinion. Now about the % of belt wrap and what that means. While we are at it want to discuss "liftbars" ?

 

Need a set?

Otherwise, why are you stirring the pot here, boss? Just for kicks?

 

Nope consider them worthless as well.... and dangerous ! One is never ever supposed to put anything on top of a jack. Frankly I do not like your attitude but that is just my opinion. Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while but I am not going to bet on that pig. People are risking thousands of dollars on something which you think works........

 

Woa. Tough crowd tonight.

Thanks, but I'm going to sit this dance out.

 

Would that be because the belt tension light saved your engine? There is definitely some value there.

 

WTF? Lift bars?

Been using them weekly for a few years now.

 

I wish you guys would all stop sniping at each other...

More value is added to the community we ALL have passion for, when questions are asked in a clinical, respectful manner, AND answered the same way.

Sniping adds zero technical value and likely demotivates all who participate in maintaining, improving, analyzing, repairing, diagnosing and re engineering the subject of our mutual affections.

All you guys hucking rocks at each other are long standing members of this community. You each have your fans and earned credibility as a result of your efforts on behalf of the marque. Hacking on each other is particularily unseemly for this bunch.

I expect such behavior out of egotistical noobs, suffering the "smartest guy in the room" disease, and the usual, known a-holes........... But you guys??????

Come on, guys "think of the children"

 

I think there are enough facts and enough BS in this thread for anyone to make up their own mine if they believe this solution is good enough for them or not.

Doubtful anyone will ever know anything with 100% certainty, except everything dies eventually whether it’s a tensioner, an engine, a thread, or even a human. In the mean time, each can decide what’s best for them and enjoy the life while it lasts.

Personally, I enjoyed the passion displayed in this thread and gained a lot in insight because of it. The BS is easy enough to ignore, but it would be nice not to have to do that.

If it were only a perfect world?

 

I guess I am as guilty as anybody here on this mess, more than most.

I just had some questions that finally got answered, but in the doing so, this has all turned south.

Ken has had a pretty good batting average with the stuff he has made for the 928.
I hope Ken continues to try to make the cars better.

I still have concerns with the tensioner, however the rest of the parts he has made for the 928 seem to work well for the folks that are using them.



A few things before I am finished with this post.

Ken you are your own worst enemy, if some one asks you a question, just tell them the answer in plain English and answer it straight.

Being condescending and rude to you customer base and saying some of the things you have said here is not the best way to sell parts IMHO.

IE when I asked you if the tensioner failed and it damaged a engine would you warranty it, just say no, do not try to make it look like something it is not by saying "If the bracket fails I will replace that".

All that did was make me worry about the bracket and if there was a known problem with it, on top of telling me you would not warranty the engine for damage.

Just for the record, I never worry about pulling the pin or turning a crankshaft after I have done a timing belt, ever, I know they are lined up correctly, even on dual Vanos BMW.
I also do not worry about going to the red line with the stock 928 system, really not sure where that one came from.

I truly hope that your tensioner turns out to be every thing people have hoped for.

 

Greg,

Nice post.

And I agree with your comment about pulling the pin too.

There is one thing I am wondering about though.
As of yet, for obvious reasons, none of the tensioners have caused a failure.
The failure is always caused be 1 of 3 things, tensioner bearing failing, waterpump failing (any of them), and of course overmilage/age of the belt.

However lets play a little devils advocate.
lets say you purchased new Porsche tensioner pulley from one of the big parts suppliers and installed it. In less than 10k miles that bearing failed and siezed destroying the timing belt, and thus bending valves.
I doubt that ANY of the parts suppliers would do anything other than give you a replacement of the part you purchased.

When I have in the past discussed the warranty of parts through our local Porsche dealer, and other locations that sell the Porsche OEM parts. I am always told the same thing, the part is warrantied for 2 years. But that warranty covered that part only, if it fails, its warranty does not cover anything else.
This is why shops carry their own insurance. Otherwise they could just rely on the manufacture of the parts to cover any damages that are inflicted due to a failed part they supplied.

I dont see Ken's product as being any different.
As well, Roger is the one doing most of the selling of these, and is supplying most of the rest of the componants. Lets say the tensioner roller failed and caused a problem, you would go to Roger, not Ken.
I am fairly sure that Roger would say that he would either refund you the cost of that part, or supply you with new at no cost. But that is where it would end.

In fact we ran into this instance on this board in the past, one fellow purchased an ign switch from Roger, it was installed and found to be DOA out of the box. Roger replaced the part without question. But the customer wanted Roger to pay for the part to be replaced. Roger did not do this, and everyone on the board agreed that this was completely unreasonable.

I am certain that should the same thing happen with a waterpump, and it did bend the valves. Roger would replace the pump right away. And while he would feel horrible about it, he would not be willing to pay to have the motor fixed. The same would go for all parts suppliers.

(not meaning to pick on you Rog).

Every part I use I personally inspect thoroughly, but a set of new motor mounts made it through, and I had to do that job twice.

Part of the other reason that parts suppliers are not that liable is that it is difficult to prove that nothing happened during both shipping, or installation of the product.

 

Why is it that the guy that installs a part is the one that has to eat what could be a ten grand repair?
I sure did not make the part that failed.

And yes, if I put a part on that failed and was looking at a lot of money out of my pocket you better believe that I will expect help from who ever I got the part from and from the folks that made it.

I am not saying pay for it all, but they are going to help me if I can prove that the part was deffective, BTDT.

That happens all the time, in fact last month I had a BMW part fail and it was all covered 100% of it parts and labor.
At least 7 engines or trans from Jasper.

Even clutches from NAPA, parts from Ford, I can not think of any manufacture that has not stepped up when asked to.
I am not going to worry about a few hundred bucks worth of parts, but when it gets into the thousands I am.

And that is why parts manufactures carry insurance, they can say they are not liable, but guess what, they are.

 

I'm always nervous about starting after doing a lot of work on the engine.

I'm usually tired, in a hurry to finish, and wonder: 'what did I forget'.

I've done so much work on the front end of the engine* that it's all a blur at times.




*Gotta be careful what you say around here - IE. development, testing, photos, experimentation