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WTB: Britax Starriser - Child seat (No longer needed)

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WTB: Britax Starriser - Child seat (No longer needed)

 
Old 07-02-2010, 11:41 PM
  #31  
mickster
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Originally Posted by Landseer View Post
Keeps them contained. Mom can't drive while talking on the cell phone if kids are jumping around the cockpit.

Since they didn't have carseats, if they had had cell phones when I was little, I probably wouldn't be here now.

Thinking back, I was the oldest. So I had dibbs on the best spot in the car, laying up on the deck under the back glass of a 59 chevy.
My wife grew up in South Africa; she and her brother used to fight over the back deck of a monster Mercedes (1970s) sedan as well.

I used to sit in some metal seat in my mom's 1965 Pontiac Catalina (and it might as well have been a boat!)
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Old 07-03-2010, 01:19 AM
  #32  
TheClairvoyant
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Originally Posted by ptuomov View Post
This child seat business is a bit nonsensical.

First, the statistical evidence is that for <2y there's a significant benefit from an infant seat. But for >2y there's no evidence of benefit relative to just wearing seat belts. Yet the crazy mothers and manufacturers have lobbied laws in that require grown men to sit in booster seats. Car manufacturers spend billions to make the back seat safe. Then crazy mothers put Chinese toy manufacturers in charge of redesigning it?!.

The usual deal, disappointing but not terribly surprising.

Here's someone making that point:
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.co...ont-work-well/
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/car-seats/
I don't know Dubner personally but I know Levitt and he's a serious researcher.

Because of this, a logical 928 driving father (we're mostly fathers, not mothers) is left with a conundrum of conflicting goals:
- How to satisfy the illogical wife / ex-wife / baby mama when logic, evidence, data can't be used?
- How to protect yourself against those who are paid (with your tax money) to "protect" and ""serve"" you
- How to actually keep your children safe

Personally, I have ended up resolving this problem in the following way.
- For babies, I use the rear-facing infant seats, they work. Can't put one on the back seat of a 997 C2SC, so I have to take the M5 when driving babies around. Life is hard.
- For older kids, find the base-only booster seat that is exactly the right height to put the seat belt over the collarbone the right way. For Porsches, the rear seat belts are already at about the right height for older kids. Therefore, the task is to find the slimmest possible booster base.

The booster seat backrest is by my estimation not beneficial to older kids, unless your objective is to get your kid to hit her head to the seat in front of her just a little bit earlier (and thus harder.) My estimation and about $2 will get you a venti coffee at Starbux.

Goes without saying that don't do anything without thinking it thru with your own brain. Don't believe the crazy mama, the legislator being paid off by the Chinese toy manufacturer, or the drunk guy posting on the internet.
I couldn't agree with you more.

I'm only getting a car seat because it's the f###### law and I don't have a rear shoulder beat to allow use of a pure booster seat.

Being required to have 75 pound kid in a baby seat is a big pet peeve of mine.

At least the laws make people feel all warm and fuzzy. After all, it's for the children.
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Old 07-03-2010, 01:20 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by mickster View Post
The backrest doesn't make them safer (other than to keep their head whipping left or right in a side impact). The key is the shoulder belt rests correctly on the child's shoulder. That is the main function. Newer boosters offer a hard shell with padding and side impact protection. To your point above-you can take the back off of this seat and just use the base.
I am not at all convinced about the side impact stuff on booster seats. The choices include child's head swinging freely sideways or hitting a bunch of Chinese plastic structures. Especially if the car has rear side impact airbags (928s don't), just getting the seating height right is probably the safest thing to do. That back rest is not going to help and might hurt.

Not at all convinced those little red plastic things are going to do anything to the belt on impact. Either the kid sits at the right height or doesn't, red or pink Chinese plastic straps aren't going to do jack about it when on impact your child suddenly weighs an effective 300 kg.

Originally Posted by Nicole View Post
Tuomo: I'm not convinced it is as simple as you make it sound...
What's simple in my opinion is that the current situation is f'd up. Mad mommys and lobbying Chinese toy makers won the round.

The problem itself is complex. I don't know what's the optimal thing to do. But I'd rather put my kids in the hands of BMW, Volvo, or Porsche/VW than a Chinese toy manufacturer. I know for a fact that BMW, Volvo, and Porsche/VW spend billions on back-seat safety. The Chinese toy manufacturers probably can't even keep the lead off the god damn paint on their products.

Originally Posted by Nicole View Post
The way the belts run, they are often too high over the upper body of a child.
That is an absolutely valid point. The seat belt has to run at the right level. That's why the base is key, it has to be the right height for the car.

On our M5 or M45S, you need a reasonably high base for a 4-year old.

On 997 convertible, the tall 6-year old would probably be safer without any booster seat. Yet the mad mommy and the lobbyist have made a law that some kind of Chinese toy manufacturer's universal product must be purchased and installed.

Originally Posted by Nicole View Post
The back rest - if designed properly - moves the child a bit further forward, further correcting the belt's position (if it doesn't have its own belt) and protects the sides of the child's body and head in case of a side impact.
If designed correctly is the key. The Chinese toy manufacturers who design the child "safety" seats don't have the car company expertise or resources to design a seat backrest. On a 7 series bimmer, moving the child forward probably doesn't hurt much. But on the back seat of a 2+2, would you really want to move your child forward from the back of the seat? Really?

You can't design a safe child safety seat that is universal and not specific to the car model. Isn't that obvious?

It's questionable that the law allows selling these things. It's preposterous that they are mandated.

Originally Posted by Nicole View Post
There is a whole science to it, and I don't claim to be an expert. But I don't think there is a reason to dismiss [well designed] child seats entirely.
I am also not an expert, but one does not need to be an expert to see why the whole situation is a$$ backwards crazy.

Instead of making laws mandating universal child "safety" seats, we should only allow selling them per model and only after they go thru the same degree of safety testing as the cars themselves.

How this really should be solved is adjustable seat height / built in booster seats like with some Volvos. I wouldn't be surprised if that one seating arrangement by Volvo was tested with a bigger budget than all child safety seat manufacturers annual testing budgets combined.

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Old 07-03-2010, 01:25 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by TheClairvoyant View Post
I couldn't agree with you more. I'm only getting a car seat because it's the f###### law and I don't have a rear shoulder beat to allow use of a pure booster seat. Being required to have 75 pound kid in a baby seat is a big pet peeve of mine. At least the laws make people feel all warm and fuzzy. After all, it's for the children.
I can get over a stupid law and find a booster seat that doesn't make things worse. Much of the money that I make to finance my car hobby comes from people and governments being stupid, so in the net it's in my benefit.

What pisses me off is intelligent people close to me who disengage their brains when thinking about child "safety" seats. My wife being an example of an extremely intelligent person who is very close to me.
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