JoeTaylor

Hi Everyone,

When driven, my '88 S4 was pulling a little to the right, has been for a while but seems to have gotten worse in the last couple of months... so I too the car back to Tires Plus who did the alignment on the wheels back in October.

The put the car on the alignment rack (Hunter DSP600) and every wheel was out of alignment!

They gave me a printout of the alignment, see below.

Also, they told me it would take 1.5 to 2 hours to do the alignment, so they asked me to drop the car off tomorrow to do the actual alignment.

I really wonder if they did the alignment correctly the first time?

Joe

Leon Speed

Hi Joe,

Did they/you check the condition of the suspension parts, any play?

justin-in-athens

Tires Plus=bad. Go somewhere else. I know, I had to learn the hard way too.

Calgary Ole

I know you know this and you told them not to but my guys almost lifted mine a little to get the plates under instead of driving on. Also some Hunters may have trouble because the front spoiler is in the way of the laser. I removed it for them beforehand just in case.

JoeTaylor

Hi Aryan,

I personally didn't check any suspension components, but had the car in another shop in March, Omega Motorsports (the local 928 shop), here in Jacksonville and they installed a new steering rack (among other things). I asked them to check things over down there and didnt hear of any problems with supspension components/bushing/tie rods, etc.

The PO did have some bushings, etc. changed during his ownership, between 2002 and 2009.

Hi Calgary Ole,

I watched and they simply drove the car up on the Hunter alignment rack, placed something (flat turntable things) down and rolled the car forward up on them. No lifting involved as the whole alignment rig rises with the car on its wheels, in place.

I was looking for lasers, but they have some other system with flashing red LED lights and whopper - big reflectors on each wheel, like in the attached photo. Looks like stop signs with reflectors all over them. My car kinda looked like the outer space version of the Comcast van, with satellite antennas on each wheel!

Hi Justin,

I would agree with you, when Tires Plus did the first alignment back in Oct 09, I dont think they really did the whole job... or why else would ALL the wheels be out of alignment.

At least this time they gave me the alignment output from the Hunter unit and I hope when they are finished, they will give me a printout of the correct alignment.

VTY,
Joe

Landseer

You might want to ask them to check the torque values on some of your front suspension and rear crossmember parts. Lugnuts too, when its on the ground.

That might lead them to properly torque the rear adjustment cambolts, too.

Making the process about bolt torque is one avenue to getting the technician dialed in.

GlenL

Looks like the front wasn't settled, or was lifted, before the alignment was done.

As for pulling, an alignment has to be really bad before it pulls. I'd jack the car and look for a dragging brake. Something that feels like a small drag can add up at 60mph. Also much easier if it's dragging to tell with the wheel removed.

Bill Ball

Having a steering rack done after the alignment at the very least will throw front toe off. It's really hard when changing racks to get the rack centers and toe to match up. Essentially impossible with a 2-post lift and very hard with a 4-post lift.

littleball_s4

That huge amount of front toe out will pull to one side as soon as you have a bit more weight in one corner. Double check at home with thread and weight (it should be visible) and correct if necessary. Apart from that, I'll bet your inner shoulders are RIP now if they have put more than 4000 miles on them. Pull gets worse as tires get bald.

The camber thing, given they have it equally wrong front and rear, points to a off-leveled machine either back in October or now. Double check with regular level (best if it's digital, but not really needed) on a level floor before they screw it up even more.

Caster is ok even if it's slightly out.

Rear toe is not nice, but probably a lot better than after they get tired to try to improve it. I would leave it alone.

So, correct front toe (may take two or three attempts), double check rear toe, put new rubber front and re-center steering wheel if needed. 90% of chances are you're good to go.

Good Luck. Aligning + new tires is the most noticeable mod you can make to a 928, they are so often out of spec.

littleball_s4

Having and printing perfect results is not even a clue that they did it right. Sorry to give you bad news, but I learnt it the hard way myself, I would like to save you from the same frustration.

I trust a lot more a thread + needle mark in the floor and a measure with metric tape. It's not accurate, but if you do it carefully it never leads you the wrong direction.

In racing, it's pretty usual to use 4 metal bars lifted to the height of the wheels and measure there. No lasers or anything. Some replace bars with threads or wires. Only way to be sure the machine is not off calibration

dr bob

As part of an effort to correct a couple "reputable" commercial alignments on my car everal years ago, I ended up making a couple laser-level fixtures for setting toe and camber. Last week, after replacing springs and shocks, I realigned everything using those same tools. In that process. I also reevaluated the need for lasers and decided they are not required. I'm sketching a simple DIY device for measuring toe angles, and should have at least a prototype in the next week or two. In the meanwhile, you might just want to find another place, maybe another Tires+ for grins, and have the car re-measured. The differences in commercial alignment results are not good, and there's no good way to tell if a commercial alignment is good except to measure the results yourself.

The 928 is extremely sensitive to changes in alignment settings, with results showing up both in the way it drives and the way it chews up tires if done wrong. When all is correct, the car is amazingly calm. Off a little, and it takes more steering inputs and seems just a bit twitchy. The differences in settings are very slight, the differences in driving feel pronounced. Don't be afraid to at least measure what you have with string, thread and needle, tape measure, whatever is easiest for you.

Earl Gilstrom has a great primer on DIY alignment checking and setting. There's a great thread on DIY alignment that will come up if you search here on Rennlist.

littleball_s4

Couldn't agree more.

mark kibort

the toe doesnt effect pulling, its the relationship of the rear to the front.

Ive had HUGE toe in and out and it didnt pull, under any condition, but it did dart under braking on uneven surfaces.

this is simple stuff. stay there and watch them. all thoe measurements get in spec and you will be fine! just dont let them raise the car AT ALL, no mater what!

mk

littleball_s4

If you are toed out a lot at the front and toed in a little at the rear and you have diagonal weight unbalance (we all have to a certain extent) you get pull. The more toe, the more sensitive to this.

And doing things right with a faulty machine is the same as doing things wrong.

I think mostly they do alignment right. I mean everything except calibrate the thing every other year.

JoeTaylor

Hi Everyone,

I took the car back today to Tires Plus and they did a complete alignment (yesterday they only measured it) and it's like I have a completely different car now!

The steering is smooth now, even the ride seems smoother. And I don't have to fight the steering wheel and the car isn't "twitchy".

Below is the printout from the Hunter DSP600 machine....

The 928 hasn't handled like this, since I bought it a year ago. Makes me think their first alignment job back in Oct. was not very thorough.

Plus, the "re-alignment" was at no-charge, nice!

VTY,
Joe