Possible GTS prototype engine
06-29-2010, 01:50 PM
#31
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MK, just ctrl-c your second to last post into your sig, it'll save you a lot of typing in the future 
Kevin- Is there an external oil pan measurement that would serve as a proxy for the pickup depth? Mark Anderson's got a whole wall of engines of many vintages. I'd be happy to go measure pans for the sake of data collection, if an external measurement would settle the issue.
Kevin- Is there an external oil pan measurement that would serve as a proxy for the pickup depth? Mark Anderson's got a whole wall of engines of many vintages. I'd be happy to go measure pans for the sake of data collection, if an external measurement would settle the issue.
06-29-2010, 01:56 PM
#32
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Mark, I think your consistent success across different engines is a critical part of determining why the engines that are different from the original intentions fail. I know that might sound strange. It allows a stronger sort of analysis.
06-29-2010, 02:11 PM
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wow, good eye! Ill have to look closely at those pictures and compare. I can double check my block year, but it for sure, is a 85-86 block, as we had to do some mods to it, like at the flywheel sensor, to make it work. the Holbert engine was 0004, and it probably is pure S4.
this is interesting stuff. kind of like archeological dig, mixed with murder mystery, but no body.
this is interesting stuff. kind of like archeological dig, mixed with murder mystery, but no body.
Why did that chap in Germany have to leave that rag over the front of the sump.
No dirt in the openings, I suppose.
06-29-2010, 04:11 PM
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Like I alwys say in our lab meetings,
06-29-2010, 09:13 PM
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06-30-2010, 07:56 AM
#38
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Kevin there are many ,many reasons why 99.999 % of all V-8 engines are 90 degrees and deviating from that usually means running a flat plain crank and balance shafts to try to make the unbalanced feeling go away. There is no way Porsche would have made a narrower angle V-8 which would be taller ! Little if any benefit and a huge undertaking to make it work. The flat crank would however make it sound like a Ferrari V-8 ...... shake a bit but sound great one reason why they only make small V-8s
If the drawing represents efforts to minimize windage problems in the engine then one possible reason for the narrower angle is to alter the reflection angle of pulses of air from the cylinder banks. In a wider angle the pulses would impart more of a "push" across the pan. In a pan that is so shallow and wide this could be a significant effect. Perhaps 84 degrees imparted so much vibration that it was abandoned on that regard.
It is my belief that the fee that TAG paid to Porsche to develop the TTE P01, 80º V6 was a gift from heaven because the bulk of the engineering had already been done. We already know direct from the manufacturer that the sintered forged Ti rods were based on the 944 pattern.
Aside: The Porsche 928 Wikipedia article mentions innovations like the bumpers etc. I am surprised that a 928 aficionado has not recorded that the 928 V8 was the first large scale production engine to use sintered forged rods (AKA powdered metal). (Info per GKN)
Last edited by Kevin Johnson; 06-30-2010 at 08:11 AM. Reason: spelling
06-30-2010, 07:01 PM
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Lancia was using 60 degree V-6 engines in the 1950s just as 90 degrees is magic for a V-8 , 60 degrees is "best" for a V-6 but the engine still needs a balanced shaft due to the basic unbalance of a 3 cylinder engine or a pair of 3 cylinders. Only a boxer six like the 911 is balanced. I really doubt that Porsche was screwing around with anything but a 90 degree V-8. GM made a bunch of big 60 degree V-6 truck engines in the 1960s. Tried a 90 degree V-6 (odd fire) for several years but it always felt and sounded like it was missing.....because it was skipping a beat here and there. They fixed it with a convoluted crank with offset pins to even out the firing order but was still not smooth enough so it too got a balance shaft.
06-30-2010, 07:09 PM
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Porsche makes a V-8?
06-30-2010, 07:39 PM
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Lancia was using 60 degree V-6 engines in the 1950s just as 90 degrees is magic for a V-8 , 60 degrees is "best" for a V-6 but the engine still needs a balanced shaft due to the basic unbalance of a 3 cylinder engine or a pair of 3 cylinders. Only a boxer six like the 911 is balanced. I really doubt that Porsche was screwing around with anything but a 90 degree V-8. GM made a bunch of big 60 degree V-6 truck engines in the 1960s. Tried a 90 degree V-6 (odd fire) for several years but it always felt and sounded like it was missing.....because it was skipping a beat here and there. They fixed it with a convoluted crank with offset pins to even out the firing order but was still not smooth enough so it too got a balance shaft.
I just sent out four scrapers for the 60 degree V6 in the Chevy --- I have a VR6 core from a customer here for more designs, a whole bunch of Buick V6 cores of various vintages, various Mitsubishi V6 engines, a number of Nissan V6 cores, I think I have a 4.3 90 degree GM one. Seems like I have a Mazda one in the storage locker as well. Oh yeah -- also got one of those Porsche designed Ford V6 engines kicking around.
Anyways, yep, lots of variations with V6 engines. I think the boxers have an issue with rotating couples.
