need help with clutch parts ID
06-10-2010, 12:49 PM
#1
Team Owner
Thread Starter
need help with clutch parts ID
I just ran the car and the shifter was making a terrible racket, anyway I figured the clutch was oiled from the previous oil leak on the ride home from LA.
I took the clutch out and this is what i found, it appears that the second drive disc is grinding away on the inside of the guide tube, this would happen whan the clutch pedal was pushed to the floor and thus the discs were released.
Might anyone have any ideas about these clutch parts , possibly an older style guide tube??
The guide tube is about 44.5 MM from its surface that faces the engine to the end could this be too long?
Could the rear disc be the wrong disc?
could the bell housing be the wrong one and be holding the guide tube too far forward? I dont have a bell housing part number.
The TOB is full of metal shavings, and it appears as though there isnt any spring washer in its assembly
these are the part numbers that I could get off of the parts
Release arm 928 116 832 06
Pressure Plate 3082 111 133
Front disc 1864 341 303
rear disc 1864 342 103
TO bearing 90404
the guide tube is about 44.5 mm long where the TOB runs.
Thanks for your help, Stan
I took the clutch out and this is what i found, it appears that the second drive disc is grinding away on the inside of the guide tube, this would happen whan the clutch pedal was pushed to the floor and thus the discs were released.
Might anyone have any ideas about these clutch parts , possibly an older style guide tube??
The guide tube is about 44.5 MM from its surface that faces the engine to the end could this be too long?
Could the rear disc be the wrong disc?
could the bell housing be the wrong one and be holding the guide tube too far forward? I dont have a bell housing part number.
The TOB is full of metal shavings, and it appears as though there isnt any spring washer in its assembly
these are the part numbers that I could get off of the parts
Release arm 928 116 832 06
Pressure Plate 3082 111 133
Front disc 1864 341 303
rear disc 1864 342 103
TO bearing 90404
the guide tube is about 44.5 mm long where the TOB runs.
Thanks for your help, Stan
06-10-2010, 02:35 PM
#2
Former Vendor
Which side of the mounting boss in the bell housing was the snout mounted to?
I have a clutch out of my 84 sitting on the bench that was i perfect working order if you want me to take any measurements. Ed
I have a clutch out of my 84 sitting on the bench that was i perfect working order if you want me to take any measurements. Ed
06-10-2010, 02:49 PM
#3
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Hi Ed the guide tube is fitted to the forward side of the bell housing thats the only place it can fit as there are cutouts for it
I would love to have a measurement of the barrel end of the guide tube.
I just found out that there are 2 different guide tubes and the one for the single disc clutch is longer, the barrel portion is longer
mine is 44.5 mm also whats the height of the rear side of the rear disc flange say from the metal surface it is mounted to , to the end of the flange??
After taking the TOB apart it appears as if the spring was put on the side between the engine and the PPlate , wrong!
I would love to have a measurement of the barrel end of the guide tube.
I just found out that there are 2 different guide tubes and the one for the single disc clutch is longer, the barrel portion is longer
mine is 44.5 mm also whats the height of the rear side of the rear disc flange say from the metal surface it is mounted to , to the end of the flange??
After taking the TOB apart it appears as if the spring was put on the side between the engine and the PPlate , wrong!
06-10-2010, 03:02 PM
#4
Archive Gatekeeper
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Stan-
Dunno the dimensions from the rear surface of the hub flange on the rear disc but the front disc hub is supposed to be 20 mm and the rear disc hub should be 29mm. The overall guide tube length on my DD setup was 49 mm, including the thickness of the mounting flange.
Dunno the dimensions from the rear surface of the hub flange on the rear disc but the front disc hub is supposed to be 20 mm and the rear disc hub should be 29mm. The overall guide tube length on my DD setup was 49 mm, including the thickness of the mounting flange.
06-10-2010, 03:05 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
did you have the discs in backwared? there are two lengths of the hubs on the discs. they have to go in correctly as well. the other thing that I have no clue on , is if there are different length guide tubes.
06-10-2010, 03:11 PM
#6
Former Vendor
Stan my tube is 49mm also total length.My shorter disc part # is 1864 341 203 where I see yours is 303.Maybe typo. Thelong hub snout is 23.596 mm plus the flange thickness of 3.098 for a total of 26.694mm. Ed
Just re-reading your post and the fact that the spring was on the wrong side would make the pressure plate travel a little to far rearward.On a hunch,check to see if maybe you have a modified master cylinder piston that is allowing too much displacement and thus causing the pressure plate to get pulled way far back.I found a couple of years ago that to stop my old clutch from dragging I was able to grind off the nose of the master cyl.piston to get almost 1/4" more travel and the dragging stopped.Just a thought anyway. Ed
Just re-reading your post and the fact that the spring was on the wrong side would make the pressure plate travel a little to far rearward.On a hunch,check to see if maybe you have a modified master cylinder piston that is allowing too much displacement and thus causing the pressure plate to get pulled way far back.I found a couple of years ago that to stop my old clutch from dragging I was able to grind off the nose of the master cyl.piston to get almost 1/4" more travel and the dragging stopped.Just a thought anyway. Ed
Last edited by OBehave; 06-10-2010 at 03:37 PM. Reason: added thought
06-10-2010, 04:06 PM
#7
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Ed thanks for the numbers they seem to match what i have except for the front disc the nuimbers are as I posted1864 341 303 front
and the rear disc is1864 342 103. The only changes i made to the clutch system was to replace the cleavis and bushing and pin a the pedal assembly as the other parts well well worn and the bushing was missing,I suppose its possible that the clutch is opening too far and thats letting the rear disc drive into the release tube. the other thing to note is that I did a test fit of the 2 discs and the I plate and with the guide tube installed there isnt much distance between the rear disc and the guide tube, approx 4mm
I am wondering if there is a possibility that a different bell housing might have been swapped into this car.
I dont think the spring between the fingers and pull plate would have much of a difference as its very thin.
Rob thanks your numbers match mine now why is the rear disc driving into the guide tube, anyone know how far the guide tube should be from the rear disc flange edge??
MK the short flange disc was positioned correctly other wise the I plate wont fit
and the rear disc is1864 342 103. The only changes i made to the clutch system was to replace the cleavis and bushing and pin a the pedal assembly as the other parts well well worn and the bushing was missing,I suppose its possible that the clutch is opening too far and thats letting the rear disc drive into the release tube. the other thing to note is that I did a test fit of the 2 discs and the I plate and with the guide tube installed there isnt much distance between the rear disc and the guide tube, approx 4mm
I am wondering if there is a possibility that a different bell housing might have been swapped into this car.
I dont think the spring between the fingers and pull plate would have much of a difference as its very thin.
Rob thanks your numbers match mine now why is the rear disc driving into the guide tube, anyone know how far the guide tube should be from the rear disc flange edge??
MK the short flange disc was positioned correctly other wise the I plate wont fit
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06-10-2010, 04:32 PM
#8
Former Vendor
I double checked my parts and the numbers are what I stated so Im' not sure if it even means anything for this problem anyway. Do you want a measurement of say the bellhousing to engine face to the tube mounting bosses? Ed
06-10-2010, 07:29 PM
#10
Nordschleife Master
I must be missing something.
On all the DD clutches I have installed the guide tube fits all the way inside the TOB with the clutch disc in.
From the amount of wear you have on there, I dont understand how a) the disc could travel that far rearward to wear, and b) how you could assemble the setup if those 2 pieces were touching....
On all the DD clutches I have installed the guide tube fits all the way inside the TOB with the clutch disc in.
From the amount of wear you have on there, I dont understand how a) the disc could travel that far rearward to wear, and b) how you could assemble the setup if those 2 pieces were touching....
06-10-2010, 08:42 PM
#11
Team Owner
Thread Starter
+well it looks like the parts are OK but that the clutch is just opening too much this lets the rear disc hit the guide tube then the rear disc spins itself into the tube.
I unadjusted the pushrod a few turns
The only thing that i did to the clutch prior to starting the car was to replace the clevis and bushing and clevis pin at the pedal, all of the old were heavily worn, the bush was gone and the clevis had an egg shaped hole and the pin was galling
So new parts make the clutch have a better travel .
Maybe too good or too much.
I also cut a hole in the bell pan so to access the fingers should they need adjustment
So i am getting ready for a roadtest
I unadjusted the pushrod a few turns
The only thing that i did to the clutch prior to starting the car was to replace the clevis and bushing and clevis pin at the pedal, all of the old were heavily worn, the bush was gone and the clevis had an egg shaped hole and the pin was galling
So new parts make the clutch have a better travel .
Maybe too good or too much.
I also cut a hole in the bell pan so to access the fingers should they need adjustment
So i am getting ready for a roadtest
06-11-2010, 05:43 PM
#13
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Well i started the car and it made a terrible racket for about 2 mins thet the noise went away.
I did cycle the clutch a few times while it was running then shut it off. when the clutch pedal was pressed the noise went away so i figured its the TOB. This morning i started the car to drive it and the noise has gone away, i think it may have been the TOB getting situated to its new position.
I repositioned the driveshaft/I shaft and increased the amount of freeplay between the clutch master and pushrod and put the TOB spring washer on the correct way and degreased the clutch discs
The car runs good the trans and clutch shift well no grinding no drag or any other things to notice.
In the end i think that the clutch pedal was moving too far and this let the rear disc hit the guide tube, plus the inter shaft wasnt correctly seated in the pilot bearing, it was too far forward. All of the shafts are correctly positioned now. Plus i now have a hole in my bell housing to either cover or buy a replacement for
Thanks for all your help
I did cycle the clutch a few times while it was running then shut it off. when the clutch pedal was pressed the noise went away so i figured its the TOB. This morning i started the car to drive it and the noise has gone away, i think it may have been the TOB getting situated to its new position.
I repositioned the driveshaft/I shaft and increased the amount of freeplay between the clutch master and pushrod and put the TOB spring washer on the correct way and degreased the clutch discs
The car runs good the trans and clutch shift well no grinding no drag or any other things to notice.
In the end i think that the clutch pedal was moving too far and this let the rear disc hit the guide tube, plus the inter shaft wasnt correctly seated in the pilot bearing, it was too far forward. All of the shafts are correctly positioned now. Plus i now have a hole in my bell housing to either cover or buy a replacement for
Thanks for all your help
